Forum Behaviour

[batrabill]

8 minutes ago, Polly said:

this is where things are said or done in a manner that the person knows is likely to set somebody off, and then they cry 'foul' when they get a reaction, and claim that they 'were only'  saying or doing something reasonable. Call it passive aggression if you like, but really it's all about tone rather than content. 

Trouble is, if you say something like “National Parks are a good thing “ something that probably 95% of the British public agree with you are seen as being provocative. Where does the problem lie?

 

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, Polly said:

Ok I hadn't seen this thread, but was thinking anyway about recent unpleasant posting exchanges and had thought about drawing on the research study I did on bullying some time ago. So here goes.

1 Bullying harms everyone, victims, bystanders, even the bullies.

2. Victims seldom if ever cry 'foul' themselves, they feel upset and ashamed of being bullied.

3. Interestingly bullies interviewed acknowledge that their bullying is 'a problem'

4. The bystanders have the power to stop the bullying, if they remain silent they suffer from guilt.

Do I think this is what is going on here? No, on the whole I don't.

There is another aspect that in my view just possibly has some relevance though, this is where things are said or done in a manner that the person knows is likely to set somebody off, and then they cry 'foul' when they get a reaction, and claim that they 'were only'  saying or doing something reasonable. Call it passive aggression if you like, but really it's all about tone rather than content. 

Again, do I think that bullying is going on? Well, in just one area, maybe; the mods are coming in for some very unfair stick when they try to tone down the tone, if you see what I mean. It's time to think again, whether what we post would be something we would want said to us face to face. No? Then edit the post before the mods have to, it's only fair.

The 4 bullet points are quite interesting; but how can bullying be prevented or more important for those being bullied, stop the bullying. 

[Polly]

I guess Philosophical, I am hoping that we bystanders can set a positive tone where things don't turn sour and the aggro is harder to generate. 

The bit about checking our own posts would be where I was headed. 

Bill, the NP thing has to be an agree to disagree thing, I think, we have done it to death without a resolution.

[batrabill]

To the next round...

Ding ding

 

[Bound2Please]

6 hours ago, grendel said:

not all of us have achieved good grades in English

That was my day off school.

 

6 hours ago, grendel said:

I dont see the minority being treated any different by the majority, than I do the majority being treated by the minority.

Very well put Grendel

[Vaughan]

Here are a few scattered thoughts, for what they are worth!

Happy Easter, by the way!

We are indeed, a very friendly forum, especially when sharing our holiday blogs and vlogs, or sharing tips and advice on boat maintenance, boat handling, toilet seals, where to find the rubbish bins, and all that. On that swimming thread though, it is a different matter.

Here we are getting our teeth into a very serious subject which could have a future influence on our activity and on the Broads themselves (literally, both in and on the water) and with such a wide forum base with such varied experience to offer, there will be a lot of different opinions. Myself, I don't see that we have been abusive on that thread, but that is because I recognise there will be strong views which members will wish to "get across" forcefully. I am not looking for "friendly" on this occasion but I am looking for serious and valuable debate, which we have certainly been having! I am sure we are all aware by now that, on this occasion, the forum's views may well have an influence on the outcome of the event.

I am no psychologist but I have considered this :

People like myself, JM, Grendel, Griff, Robin, Charlie, MM and many others are able to happily bounce our views and opinions off each other in a relaxed manner and that is simply because we know each other. We have met, at forum events and other places, where we have had time to sit down and have a chat. I have always felt that this makes an important difference. Look at what happens when Timbo and I start having a go about the Great Estuary Theory, and glacial till and stuff! A lively debate from two different experiences (and in his case professional knowledge), but we are not falling out over it : I find it fascinating and I learn a lot from it. Old Wussername and I can be quite "drerorogativ" with each other sometimes but that is because we know each other well, our families' history goes back a long way and we want to have a laugh.

My point is, that I can well understand that others might see this as though there is a clique or inner sanctum at work in the forum, from which they might feel left out. This is most unfortunate since I know very well it is not like that. Not sure how to change it but perhaps we should understand that there is a risk of this happening and all work hard not to foster it.

Railway Modellers for instance, all share their views on their forums but I wonder how many have actually met each other, as we have here on the Broads?

One thing I don't agree with is when someone has obviously thrown a stone in the pond to see how far the ripples will go out across the water. That is not productive.

[Hockham Admiral]

6 minutes ago, Vaughan said:

One thing I don't agree with is when someone has obviously thrown a stone in the pond to see how far the ripples will go out across the water. That is not productive.

Hear! Hear!

Well said, Vaughan, and I heartily agree with your well expressed sentiments.   

[SwanR]

I’ve been mostly keeping out of these kind of topics and preferring to focus on the lighter side of life. 

However what concerns me is when these topics are in the public area not the members area. And yes, I know there are reasons that may justify that. But how many of you stop and think about the impression that you are giving all those non-members casually browsing? I’ve been quite well entertained on occasion by such threads on public forums that I don’t belong to. But it doesn’t entice me to want to join. And it doesn’t give me a good impression of that community. 

There are too many people who seem unable to make their point, agree to disagree and move on. 

[Hockham Admiral]

4 minutes ago, SwanR said:

I’ve been mostly keeping out of these kind of topics and preferring to focus on the lighter side of life. 

However what concerns me is when these topics are in the public area not the members area. And yes, I know there are reasons that may justify that. But how many of you stop and think about the impression that you are giving all those non-members casually browsing?  And it doesn’t give me a good impression of that community. 

There are too many people who seem unable to make their point, agree to disagree and move on. 

Definitely "YES", Jean. Unfortunately there are those who will bang on about freedom of speech, etc. if the Mods choose to move the topic there.

[Vaughan]

4 minutes ago, Hockham Admiral said:

Unfortunately there are those who will bang on about freedom of speech, etc. if the Mods choose to move the topic there.

Not me, surely???        

 

[Bound2Please]

9 minutes ago, Hockham Admiral said:

Definitely "YES", Jean. Unfortunately there are those who will bang on about freedom of speech, etc. if the Mods choose to move the topic there.

Very well said John thank you

 

[smellyloo]

Whilst their was some genuine, well thought out arguments against the swimming event there were pages of repetitive dogma rubbishing the event with categorical claims that safety was being compromised in favour of profit.

The fact that this thread has been started confirms that the few supporters felt that their input was being held in contempt and being disregarded out of hand.

So sadly I felt the swimming thread was being hijacked by the ....... I refuse to share my broads with anybody that hasn't paid for the privilege.  A debate it certainly was not ..... just page after page of repeated outrage.

[grendel]

we could move the forum behavior thread to members only, but that would exclude those in the original thread that are not full members, the swimming thread by its nature needs to be in the open area.

[grendel]

2 minutes ago, smellyloo said:

Whilst their was some genuine, well thought out arguments against the swimming event there were pages of repetitive dogma rubbishing the event with categorical claims that safety was being compromised in favour of profit.

The fact that this thread has been started confirms that the few supporters felt that their input was being held in contempt and being disregarded out of hand.

So sadly I felt the swimming thread was being hijacked by the ....... I refuse to share my broads with anybody that hasn't paid for the privilege.  A debate it certainly was not ..... just page after page of repeated outrage.

conversely the people who were against the event at that location felt that the pro brigade were ignoring their concerns, and that their input was being disregarded and dismissed out of hand too. so it really works both ways. 

When two sides get entrenched so deeply the discussions can get heated, this is when we must all take a step back and consider our responses to not add fuel to the fire and bring the thread crashing down around our ears.

This was the reason this thread has been started, so we can all work together to solve the riddle of why these disagreements happen and get out of hand, particularly on threads where we see the importance of discussing matters, and that we can do it here without derailing the original discussion.

[Bound2Please]

20 minutes ago, smellyloo said:

The fact that this thread has been started confirms that the few supporters felt that their input was being held in contempt and being disregarded out of hand.

Feel free to correct me if I am wrong smellyloo, was this thread not started by Jenny Morgan one of those against it????? I dont see those for it as being disregarded out of hand at all.

 

22 minutes ago, grendel said:

we could move the forum behavior thread to members only, but that would exclude those in the original thread that are not full members, the swimming thread by its nature needs to be in the open area.

If it had been moved Mel Holland for one could not have made her contribution to the thread for starters.

[smellyloo]

8 minutes ago, Bound2Please said:

Feel free to correct me if I am wrong smellyloo, was this thread not started by Jenny Morgan one of those against it????? I dont see those for it as being disregarded out of hand at all.

 

If it had been moved Mel Holland for one could not have made her contribution to the thread for starters.

I thought this thread was started by grendel to divert discussions of behavior from the original thread.

[grendel]

Charlie, I think he was referring to this thread, not the swimming one, the swimming one was started by JM, I started this one, though for some reason Ians post I moved from the other thread came in before mine.

[JennyMorgan]

There appears to be a faction within the general forum community that ONLY posts on NBN when there is a chance of creating discontent. I normally bite my tongue but be afraid, very afraid,  the day will come, I promise you . . . . . . . . . . . . . 

[Bound2Please]

1 minute ago, smellyloo said:

I thought this thread was started by grendel to divert discussions of behavior from the original thread.

Er so why did you bring up the swimming post that I was replying to then?

Just now, grendel said:

Charlie, I think he was referring to this thread, not the swimming one, the swimming one was started by JM, I started this one, though for some reason Ians post I moved from the other thread came in before mine.

I know that Peter, but I was replying to smellyloos post on this thread.

[rightsaidfred]

Definition of Bullying

"Bullying is the use of force, threat, or coercion to abuse, intimidate, or aggressively dominate others. The behavior is often repeated and habitual. One essential prerequisite is the perception, by the bully or by others, of an imbalance of social or physical power, which distinguishes bullying from conflict." 

Maybe its because of where and when I grew that I am sufficiently thick skinned enough not to feel threatened or intimidated because some one disagrees with me but I will still try and be objective about it`s perceived effect and use on the forum.

Firstly as far as cliques are concerned I and I am sure many others have on one occasion or another agreed with and disagreed with most posters depending on the topic in question and individual viewpoint, if I believe in something I will stand my corner till proven wrong however if I find myself in a small minority I will look at the experience and knowledge being used in the opposite argument to try and understand why so many disagree with me and if their viewpoint is valid, if they can justify their argument then I will revise my own standpoint that is the whole point of debate and mature discussion.

I can honestly say that in my eyes I have seen no evidence of bullying on the last thread or any others that I can recall, I don't recall seeing anyone targeted as an individual just people taking issue with some comments that have been made some of which were obviously intended to draw a reaction, that is not bullying its defending your viewpoint and is usually done with constructive comment not derision, the one thing that does stand out to me on any thread is that when someone claims to be being bullied it is normally when they are in the minority and have been unable to offer a constructive argument to win their case and instead of considering their own standpoint try to derail the thread by accusing others of aggressive tactics.

Fred

[smellyloo]

 

 

9 minutes ago, Bound2Please said:

Er so why did you bring up the swimming post that I was replying to then?

I know that Peter, but I was replying to smellyloos post on this thread.

Now I am really confused I have  no clue what you are referring to.

[grendel]

11 minutes ago, smellyloo said:

 

 

Now I am really confused I have  no clue what you are referring to.

A good example of how one post can be read differently by different people, I think I may be confused now too. 

[batrabill]

8 minutes ago, JennyMorgan said:

There appears to be a faction within the general forum community that ONLY posts on NBN when there is a chance of creating discontent. I normally bite my tongue but be afraid, very afraid,  the day will come, I promise you . . . . . . . . . . . . . 

A there you go. I think we can assume I am one of that ‘faction’.  But I contacted the organiser and encouraged her to contribute so we could get some facts. Creating discontent??

For those that still don’t get it, she found the response far from ‘friendly’.

That’s where things kicked off. 

I have looked back at the thread and the only instance of creating discontent from this side of the argument is Bobdog adding “National Park” to his response. Sorry Bobdog but that’s true right?

BUT that’s only as annoying it is to me and many others to read all the non-fact based insults against the BA. 

The difference is, the “majority” find one annoying and not the other. 

[vanessan]

One of the things, IMHO, that comes across as unnecessarily aggressive is the use of capital letters to make a point. It has usually been considered as shouting. Personally I would rather see that point being made by the use of italics, bold or underlining. But that’s just my view. 

batrabill has made a good point about the insults (not quite sure I would have used that word) against the BA. As yet we don’t know what their stand is on the swim issue, hopefully we soon will. We have just assumed the Authority has happily gone along with it. After all, the first we knew about it was from an EDP article and I know full well what some of you think about Archant. I can’t comment as I am not local so have no idea. 

Going back to this thread, I have to agree wholeheartedly with rightsaidfred’s last post - sums it all up nicely. 

[batrabill]

You must also accept that once 3 or 4 of the usual suspects have agreed on something it gets less and less likely someone will present a counter argument. So the “consensus” is self-reinforcing. 

I have a PM from someone who said they agreed with me but “wouldn’t dare” say it on open forum. 

Worth thinking about?