Do We Really Need Electric Posts ???

[Bound2Please]

There are a few threads on the go at the moment, involving electric posts. I am sure when the BA first  put them in, non electric boats hooking up to them, was the last thing on the minds of the authority. Sadly if there are any boats that at are really in need to hook to recharge the propulsion batteries, my guess is they have a one in 300- 400  chance  of being able to. So maybe the time has come to disconnect all the electric posts, with modern batteries and alternators the boats hire and private should be fine, without shore power. Do we really need electric kettles hair straightners and the like.

My idea of going afloat is to get away from all that stuff, relax, then relax some more. If people cant live without modern lifestyle trappings simply stay at home. Going back to basics should make the hire prices drop, then people who would love a break on the broads, may be able to afford one. The broads are for relaxing, so why are people stressing so much about finding an electricity hook up?

Over to the forum.

Charlie

[grendel]

I agree, If I go away camping in a tent, part of the fun is cooking over a small gas burner, making breakfast in just 1 pan.

my one thing I do take to make life easier (and save carrying milk around with no fridge) is using the 3 in one coffee sachets- just add water, coffee - whitener and sugar in one, instant mash is another thing that is easier when camping.

So even the basics on a boat is luxury compared to camping.

[quo vadis]

May I just remind you it’s 2018 

[NorfolkNog]

I agree too. I've probably been afloat more than most in winter (December and February for last 10 Years) and can honestly say I've never plugged in in my life. I've never had a flat battery or never I or Mrs N have been cold. If a boat is well maintained, the heating, batteries and charging systems should be more than adequate. Double duvets help too. Never have the heating on overnight. I'd hate to be restricted as to where to moor due electric supply. 

I'm sure a lot of folks will disagree with me though!! 

[JohnK]

I’d say the opposite
Not for the boaters with engines wanting a hook up but back to electric boats....
If we assume diesel and petrols will be phased out and electric is the future then the infrastructure to charge them needs to improve significantly in my opinion.
A case of chicken and egg? Can more boats be electric unless we have more (moor ) charging points? Is there any point putting in more charging points before there are enough boats that need them (“need” not being Penelope’s hair straighteners)

[MauriceMynah]

It's "Each to their own" Charlie, and the difference between "need" and "want".

As I asked on one of the other threads, who decides what level of equipment should be on board, the customer or the boatyard? If the customers indicate that something is wanted, then it will be the boatyard which supplies it that gets the business.

As a hypothetical question, If Richardson's changed their hire fleet to an all woodies fleet back to the equipment levels of the 1960s, but Woods and Brinks went to all top end luxury , who would get the lions share of the business?

No. Not only can we not turn the clocks back, but we have to start planning for the future facilities that are going to be wanted., Further, if I were J.P. I would start thinking about extending the navigable waters. Restoration and re-instatement of the Dillham North Walsham canal and Horsted Lock  Dredge and permit mud weighting in South Walsham inner broad. Re-open for navigation Hoveton Great Broad, Cockshoot Broad and Ranworth Broad, and one or two other options.  (and that's just the northern waters)

Thee are plenty of landlocked bits of water for mother nature to play in. 

[Hylander]

3 minutes ago, NorfolkNog said:

I agree too. I've probably been afloat more than most in winter (December and February for last 10 Years) and can honestly say I've never plugged in in my life. I've never had a flat battery or never I or Mrs N have been cold. If a boat is well maintained, the heating, batteries and charging systems should be more than adequate. Double duvets help too. Never have the heating on overnight. I'd hate to be restricted as to where to moor due electric supply. 

I'm sure a lot of folks will disagree with me though!! 

I agree with you Howard but saying that we are not as mobile as you and your wife and do not go out and about as you do , thus keeping yourselves warm,  we tend to sit about and need the heating (in the winter months) on.     We also never eat out so another reason to keep the boat warm.        So in the winter months if we can get on a leccy point we do make the most of it.   Not always possible and we survive.    When we had our own boat we had the old gas heaters on the there and they were brilliant at keeping the boat cosy.    I personally am not that keen on listening to these Eberspacher  heaters click clicking all of the time and bellowing out warm air.    

[NorfolkNog]

That's fair comment M, we do have reasonable mobility (touch wood) so that does help I'm sure. 

[ZimbiIV]

Depends on how often you use a boat.

When we hired the first thing we did was find a place to hide the TV, didn't want it for a week.

Now we use the boat for 2 weeks and home for 2 weeks etc. it is nice to have some comforts, we don't want to spend every night in the pub.

paul

[JennyMorgan]

In a nutshell, for me anyway, the answer is an unequivocal 'no'. But then for me boating is about travelling, not just mooring up. I rarely set foot on a boat unless I'm going from somewhere to somewhere else. For some folk a boat is a holiday home that just so happens to float, I do understand that, but for me it's a mode of transport, one that should be capable of surviving without an umbilical cord.

[SteveO]

Frankly I am fed up with this recurring debate. If you don't have electric posts you would have even more people running engines at antisocial times to charge batteries and generate hot water. It is OK for locals, who tend to use their vessels as day boats, to sound off about this, but those of us who live in the 21st century (i.e. outside Norfolk)  and stay on our boat for a week or more at a time need our creature comforts and these often require electricity. Yes I would happily "rough it" if that was all that was on offer, but I can't speak for Mrs O and I can see that tension between family members who have different expectations of comfort and utility could very easily lead to a shared and much valued pastime becoming a source of tension and dissent.

[ZimbiIV]

As a ps the telly is usually used like it is at home, i.e. moving wallpaper in the corner!

paul

 

[Guest]

IMHO no we don't need them but hire boats arnt built to survive without them these days , they have far too much power hungry items onboard hence need the engine running when not plugged in , properly thought out boats don't need hook ups and that includes properly thought out sailing is showering on the move for the crew etc , iv heard at the tolls meeting when the vast majority of tolls went up alot one person suggest that the authority expanded the network of posts for the hybrid boats ! Build better boats then they are not needed , sure its handy at times but its not that important n yes iv seen people push others out of the way to get there first and even plug in before tiring up the boat just to get that last socket .

Most of this comes from people thinking boats are like house's and they can't live without technology , as for whirlpool baths on boats that's beyond a joke , having worked on one n hire boat with one the bath was nearly nearly as big as the water tank + the pump is using power too " bonkers " .

[JohnK]

This thread has really brought out the people with all the answers hasn’t it?
Debate isn’t required, just do everything my way
That’s not aimed at any one individual.

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, SteveO said:

Frankly I am fed up with this recurring debate. If you don't have electric posts you would have even more people running engines at antisocial times to charge batteries and generate hot water. It is OK for locals, who tend to use their vessels as day boats, to sound off about this, but those of us who live in the 21st century (i.e. outside Norfolk)  and stay on our boat for a week or more at a time need our creature comforts and these often require electricity. Yes I would happily "rough it" if that was all that was on offer, but I can't speak for Mrs O and I can see that tension between family members who have different expectations of comfort and utility could very easily lead to a shared and much valued pastime becoming a source of tension and dissent.

Rough it ? Seriously iv all the creature comforts that run of an inverter I certainly don't rough it , n as for charging that's taken care of via cruising and solar power , I'm on my boat 24/7/365  so hardly a day boat cruiser and regarding the running of engines that's largely down to the hire boats and often private ones not being built to a standard that they can survive without plugging in hence lots of people cruise from one electric post to another .

[JennyMorgan]

Ricardo, you are talking boats as opposed to floating homes. I quite agree with what you have just written, my thoughts exactly but then I also agree wholeheartedly with Stevo O's point of view. 

Re power hungry hire boats, bearing in mind that these will eventually become private boats, that is a very real problem in the making, in my humble opinion. It's a problem being forced upon the infrastructure because a hook up is an easy solution for the yards building these so called eco boats and other power hungry vessels.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, JohnK said:

This thread has really brought out the people with all the answers hasn’t it?
Debate isn’t required, just do everything my way
That’s not aimed at any one individual.

No I think debate is required and for my input I recon I'm qualified to discuss given iv built over the yrs 12 boats now as live a float vessels 3 for myself hence I can see where the problems lie and how to largely get rid of them .

I'm not taking the remark as named at me just pointing out that debate is good and not one person has all the answers but a few are quite knowledgeable on the subject through yrs of experience 

[Meantime]

17 minutes ago, SteveO said:

Frankly I am fed up with this recurring debate. If you don't have electric posts you would have even more people running engines at antisocial times to charge batteries and generate hot water. It is OK for locals, who tend to use their vessels as day boats, to sound off about this, but those of us who live in the 21st century (i.e. outside Norfolk)  and stay on our boat for a week or more at a time need our creature comforts and these often require electricity. Yes I would happily "rough it" if that was all that was on offer, but I can't speak for Mrs O and I can see that tension between family members who have different expectations of comfort and utility could very easily lead to a shared and much valued pastime becoming a source of tension and dissent.

No you don't have people running engines at antisocial times, you have antisocial people running engines at the wrong times!!!

I am not local, live 2 hrs away from my boat and often use it for 10 days at a time. As I mentioned on another thread I changed 10 paper cards for the new plastic ones and still have them. Probably three years ago was the last time I plugged in. I don't run my engine at moorings. I manage my day around when the hot water is available with very little inconvenience.

I have enough battery power on board to run the immersion for 90 mins if needed to generate quiet hot water without cruising, but prefer to generate hot water when under way. I can if needed use the immersion and engine under way to very quickly generate hot water. I don't have a need for hair straighteners but the power is there on board if guests do need them without starting any engine.

A well designed boat and a little consideration is normally all that is needed.

[Meantime]

4 minutes ago, JennyMorgan said:

Re power hungry hire boats, bearing in mind that these will eventually become private boats, that is a very real problem in the making, in my humble opinion. It's a problem being forced upon the infrastructure because a hook up is an easy solution for the yards building these so called eco boats and other power hungry vessels.

That was actually a discussion point with my friend on my last trip out. I think the hire yards have shot themselves in the foot big time. I sometimes wince when my mooring renewal comes through followed by the toll, for a 35ft boat. I see very few if any of the 44ft behemoths in private hands at the moment and cannot foresee the queue of people lining up to buy them anytime soon. Some of the early Spitfire 44ft Alphas are knocking on the door of being 20 now. Quite a bit older than my boat when I purchased it. I wouldn't add another £1000 for mooring plus £250 in additional tolls to buy a 44ft boat which is more difficult to handle and struggle even more to find moorings in peak season.

35ft is about my limit and I think the same for most private boat owners. I think the hire yards will gradually see their resale market shrink until they are stuck with the old 44ft boats clogging up their yards.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, NorfolkNog said:

Never have the heating on overnight.

But you have no need, you spend all night in the pub which has it's own heating and fireplace 

[TheQ]

Fibreglass boats on the broads effectively last for ever, I think as the 44footers get old we'll see more total refits done to them by the yards to keep them going. especially if...

More electric and hybrids are Pushed on us. I have already seen comments by MPs  about stopping boats using red diesel, they are generally talking about trawlers etc but you can guarenttee it will come our way, and as cars move away from diesel I can see boats being forced to as well. This will require many more charging points, petrol boats on the broads with tourists would be a highly explosive mixture...

[Smoggy]

The richos hireboat at the st.olaves bell on the saturday of easter weekend needed an electric post inserting somewhere! The engine was running when we went in the pub at 7.00pm and was still running when we came out again at the back of 11.00pm, he looked most put out when we suggested he turned it off as we wanted to sleep (he did turn it off though), I was ready to get the battery drill out with a big holesaw to give the hint....

[LondonRascal]

I have spoken of this before, that the big problem the Broads Authority had when they first brought these posts to moorings (and this is not 'BA bashing here) I don't think enough was done to work with the boatyards to come up with a good base from which to work and improve on.

In short the posts went in, and I remember a couple of boats (there may have been more) that were all electric and one could hire. One was Quiet Light from Herbert Woods, and another was a small aft cockpit boat from Colin Facey. 

Instead of the network of charging points growing in line with boatyards building more electric boats (including day boats) what seemed to happen was the boatyards found the market was not there for the cost of this foray into electric propulsion, battery tech was all based on Lead Acid and so you had limited range and limited places to charge up anyway.

They are still called ‘Charging Points’ though but here is the deal, they are standard marina electrical pedestals! This is where the Broads Authority really went wrong because anyone can so easily get the required lead and plug in. They can get the cards from numerous outlets to top up as well. It should be managed so much better especially as now there is more talk about ‘dirty diesels’ these days and boatyards are experimenting once more with ‘Hybrid’ boats.

I don’t think one can put the Horse back in the stable, but I do think that there should be more electric charging points that are solely for that purpose. While someone is going to be happy to spend a few pounds on a 3 pin ‘caravan lead’ they might not be so happy to spend a few hundred pounds on a lead with the correct ‘fast charge’ connector found on road side vehicle charging stations. The boats need these, the posts needs these and please Broad Authority get contactless payment meters in the posts! No need to buy cards just tap and top up – choose from £1.00, to £5.00, they have the power connection and the Broads is no longer a ‘not spot’ for data over phone networks so everything is ready to go – units can be bought off the shelf for not a great deal of cost – which is why so many vending machines now have a contactless payment method.

But what about all the exiting posts out there? Well I reckon they too should have contactless payment accepted, it would make it so easy and simple and no need to have all these cards, and local shops running out of them and the Broads Authority having to go empty the little used card bin on the side of the posts. 

What surprises me though is why many boaters actually ‘plug in’ I appreciate it if you have an electric immersion heater, supplementary electric heating, a battery charger, toaster, electric kettle, larger TV and so on because then you can use all these comforts without worry and it can especially in the winter months enhance the boating experience.  This said, I am a bit nosey when people arrive and plug in and when it is a small boat with none of the above or say just one item that might be used I ponder did they need the electricity really..?

A side note...

I have just returned form a weekend hire from Herbert Woods. The boat was not fancy, it had an Inverter and a microwave - that was it. I was told by a chap (who used to work at Brooms for a good number of years) so knew a thing or two about boats, how we should not run out heating for more than two hours without running the engine. It was as if we both knew the root cause but it was the script he had been told to use.  Our batteries were not capable of starting the heater without the engine running, even then it would take at least two (often three) attempts to get it to fire. That is just one boat, one experience. Imagine how many are out there not only on hire but hirers being told to run engines 'to keep the heater going'.  Also the importance of running the engine during the day be it cruising, or not but you need a good few hours to replenish battery charge something else I don't think many appreciate.

It only takes a few to do this and then this sort of becomes a standard procedure. Last year we did it, this year we will type thing. I felt awful at Ranworth having to do this after coming back from the pub (which thankfully was not too late) but the boat two down was stilling chugging away at 9:45pm.

[Hylander]

It is good when you are hooked up to be able to watch TV and have lights on without having to worry about batteries.

[Meantime]

6 minutes ago, Hylander said:

It is good when you are hooked up to be able to watch TV and have lights on without having to worry about batteries.

I can watch TV, have the lights on, charge various devices, have the heater on and the fridge coming on and off as it needs for the whole day and not need to be hooked up, or start the engine, or worry about batteries going flat, but then again I re-engineered my boat that way.