What Do We Want At Acle Bridge?

[Ray]

An eyesore can easily be a stand alone without reference to other nearby sites surely.

I don't see BA bashing in this topic at all, they are the body in charge of pretty much everything this board is about so discussion of their actions, proposals and motives is pretty much a given.

Personally I'm lucky enough to live in Norfolk now but feel that anyone who loves and enjoys the Broads has a right to an opinion.

I don't see the point of making a post describing how you legitimately feel and then saying you won't contribute further! Your last word doesn't mean it's 'the' last word.

[Guest]

That's just it in a nutshell , as soon as someone disagrees with what BA are doing they are BA bashing , what a utter load of rubbish , they are voicing their opinion on a public forum in a reasonable way and nothing else , all this please don't criticise BA rubbish is getting very tiresome , people are entitled to their opinion regardless of whether they agree with BA's plans or not  .

oh n don't pull the I live here so iv a right card!  its not appropriate given the discussion is largely about tourism hence involves those that don't live in Norfolk who in my opinion have as much right to a say as anyone else . 

[JennyMorgan]

Whatever is built I just hope that it doesn't become an eternal drain on funds. I say that because it is not many years since information centres were closed down as part of a cost cutting exercise.  I'm not a great fan of the RSPB but their Minsmere Sanctuary is a joy, the visitor centre there a hive of activity. clearly a real earner, despite being miles from anywhere. I can only guess but I doubt that their excellent and very tasteful visitor centre cost anywhere near £750,000.00.

It has to be remembered that the BA is not a commercial enterprise nor does it appear to have any real commercial expertise.

It does appear that JP has a wodge to spend and spend it he will, irrespective of what is actually needed. Does seem that he's going about this the wrong way round. 

[MauriceMynah]

1 hour ago, ChrisB said:

 

Because people are just assuming what is to be built is wrong before it even gets off the ground. Why the words eyesore? It can only be an eyesore when compared with it's neighbours, hence, reference to those over the other bank. I do not agree with many BA actions but I hope that I do not go into the type of abrasive auto-anti BA that is becoming, regretfully seen here, the other place (most of the time) and even the NSBA. Please sometimes stop and think what the effect of all these negative posts have on their staff, the ones I have met being dedicated employees and often view these sites. I am really concerned that inability of the boating fraternity to even consider the bigger picture for Broadland will be it's demise. Without the Bird Watchers and conservation bodies North Norfolk and The Broads would be a 14 week season. You can not survive 52 weeks on 14. You know there are quite a few folk who live here who get pretty upset about reading how the area should be run by people who actually contribute very little to the bigger picture, live elsewhere, have a very narrow interest in the area, ie one activity and then call them, that most objectionable Americanism NIBYs. Personally I like the Australian way. You have an obligation consider it a privilege to visit their National Parks and other areas of the country.

Anyway I shall not contribute any more.

For debate to happen it needs two sides. I agree with you Chris about people being anti something without knowing what that something is, being illogical, I can however sympathise the view that most modern architecture being pretty awful. and for those reasons I'm not surprised at the backlash. I see it as the right backlash at the wrong time. Objections should be submitted when the plans are put forwards, assuming that the design is thought awful.

But I have to add Chris, that in my opinion, this is not the time to withdraw from the debate, far from it. If you start to find the opposition views are valid and you change your position, then fight for their corner, if you continue to hold your views then stand up for your corner and continue the debate. If you start to agree with 'them' but dislike what that means... then that is the time to withdraw.

[JennyMorgan]

The Chief Executive's report is here. Some good suggestions here including ones that would impact on nearby businesses. It does concern me that the BA has vested interests and I suspect that there will be some very valid objections. I am heartened that Lana Hempnell & James Knight are involved.

http://www.broads-authority.gov.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0006/1137390/Acle-Bridge-Site-ba160318.pdf

[johnb]

I would like to add expertise to this thread, but unfortunatley I have none, having predicted disaster for the Millenium Tent at Greenwich, and failed to see any future for the Ferris Wheel sited on the South Bank! However, having read the ideas in JMs post above, I do wonder if they are thinking of taking over the adjacent fields and building new roads. Given my track record, it probably has the chance of being an outstanding success-following the injection of a few million £s

[NorfolkNog]

Interesting read JM. It looks as if they are keeping their options open, subject to the views of the working group and no doubt any architects proposals. I would be interested to know the extent of the site - certainly the existing building and forecourt occupy a fairly small footprint so even if they acquire the toilet block too, its not a massive site, or am I missing something?

The main nearby business would be the Bridge Inn but I can't see the proposals making much of dent on their business - the Bridge is busy all year round and I don't think a seasonal type café operation will impact too much. Watch this space as they say.

[JennyMorgan]

Howard, from the BA report: The café should be able to include a bar for evening events and space to sell a small range of basic goods. 

[NorfolkNog]

That's true JM although I suspect it wont be on a huge scale. I don't think the Pedro's operation on the old Horizon site has had much impact. Looking again at the site there are a couple of outbuildings between the shop and the bridge but even so there doesn't look to be huge amount of space. It would be interesting to see a site plan.

[Ray]

There is a site plan if you download the competition brief, it shows the land aquired and the Council land where the toilet block is outlined seperately, although they say they are in the process of acquiring this too.

 

[rightsaidfred]

I like to think I am neither pro or anti BA but try to judge topics on their merit, I am happy to give praise where due and criticism when warranted so I am trying to be objective here.

What does Acle have to offer to justify or merit this amount of expenditure, for many it is the downstream end of the Northern Broads, for those wanting a jumping off point for Brayden without stopping at Yarmouth Stracey has good moorings with little facilities and Stokesby has a pub etc with limited moorings so there are some who would use Acle for this, there is now limited hire boat operation at Acle  the majority of those using Acle will be returning upstream so would already have purchased most of their requirements so what`s left, the pub has some mooring as has Pedros with a large number of other moorings above, on what is now the BA bank my personal preference as a mooring the moorings need considerable but fully justified restoration which will not be cheap, water points would be desirable although available at the yard opposite and done in conjunction with the restoration not to expensive, likewise electric points although somewhat more costly.

As for the other facilities they are all very seasonable and have proven unsustainable for a number of years and while both a shop and tea rooms are desirable they could only exist with some sort of heavy subsidy, a toilet block with showers may be nice but given how well equipped most boats are now would be of most benefit to passing motorists and cyclists so an expensive option with limited benefit, a rubbish facility would be good and while incurring ongoing costs could be justified, that leaves a visitor centre, as there are no significant attractions in that area who would use it, most boaters can get the information they want from various sources including their home yard and skippers handbook, there is very little in the way of casual road visitors apart from the pub with most people just going through to other destinations and while I am all for educating children the whole of the Broads is a class room with many more interesting places than Acle.

To sum up if we accept the need to upgrade the moorings and ignore architectural preferences what else does Acle as an area offer that warrants that level of expenditure.

Fred

[ChrisB]

I must make one more point. 

For a great many people, especially first time boaters Acle Bridge is their first view of the Broads as they travel by car to Herbert Woods and Richardsons, usually with time on their hands. Therefore it is an excellent location for a visitor centre that will add value to their stay prior to picking up their boat.

[Siddy]

I’m moored next to bridge stores and read this late last night, I was out in last hour and took full site pictures as ref to upload so any shots you want besides the ones I show ask.

 

[littlesprite]

“You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time”.”

[JennyMorgan]

It is clear that the retail side is seen as a means of subsidising the educational facilities. How many schools will take advantage of what is on offer? Far too many questions for what appears to be an ill considered aspiration. As someone has already suggested, JP has the money and has the site and is now scratching around for ideas. Perhaps it neither warrants nor needs these facilities hence my original question. The site had been up for sale for quite some time and there was hardly a rush from the most likely candidates to buy it. In other words JP got it because no one else wanted it, it is not seen as viable.  This could well become a millstone around the tax/toll payer's neck and for what, JP's vanity? Back to the original question, what really is needed?

[grendel]

there is a problem with vehicle access to the site, due to the lack of vision, if a car comes over the bridge fast and a coach is turning into the entrance from the other directions there may be an issue, however, this problem was anticipated in the competition brief, and solutions are asked for, maybe a set of traffic lights on the turning with a repeater at the crown of the bridge (or indeed a high light that can be seen as you approach the bridge to stop traffic while a vehicle turns into the site.

I still see that a viable option would be to make a floating visitor centre and dig out a basin at the location for it to berth,  then at least if it became unviable at that location it could be moved to a more frequented location and the basin used for moorings. win win

[Siddy]

I’ve not downloaded the spec yet but I was sat looking around.

Got to be single floor as 2 floors with possibly the 2nd as a cafe or viewing across the river and fields, you’d need a lift which has a maintenance cost.

Build in brick and like Robin said clad it to blend in, A good solid build let’s face it three little pigs can’t be wrong.

Pitched roof to get solar panels for power, could possibly get this sponsored.

The toilet block has lights turned now on outside and the access needs the step to go inside changing to ramps. This may need rebuilding to meet today’s specs and how about a shared wash area reduce number sinks and hand dryers.

Ive just seen the sign for Weavers Way Public Footpath so how about a few benches along the route for rest points.

Like Ricardo said places he’s worked on have closed, it’s all about running cost with maintenance the following years, I know what it costs to get contractors in to tick a box to meet regs and reduce the where’s the blame claim team.

They could make this a new green site even a small wind turbine to power the moored boats, there’s enough wind down here.

 

[Siddy]

[Siddy]

[Siddy]

[MauriceMynah]

To Rightsaidfred

I take your point but there is no point in going anywhere before anything is built. It's Chicken & Egg. Do you build facilities where people go or do people go somewhere because there are facilities there?

For those who stay north, Acle is another stop off place, mainly because of the pub. There have been many times the pub's moorings have been full so there is value to the pub to have extra moorings there. If more people can moor near the pub there will be greater demand for a small shop, and so it goes on. The more facilities provided the more visitors arrive. This leads me to another suggestion not entirely separate from this.

Variable mooring times.

I would suggest that in British summer time, the BA moorings are 24 hours, but when we switch to GMT, the hours go to either 48hrs or even 72hrs. I might even suggest that registered liveaboards (those with full year tolled boats) have an "extended stay" licence, valid throughout GMT covering certain moorings. 

Hmmm maybe that should have it's own thread.! 

[Siddy]

[Siddy]

[Siddy]

[batrabill]

23 minutes ago, JennyMorgan said:

It is clear that the retail side is seen as a means of subsidising the educational facilities. How many schools will take advantage of what is on offer? Far too many questions for what appears to be an ill considered aspiration. As someone has already suggested, JP has the money and has the site and is now scratching around for ideas. Perhaps it neither warrants nor needs these facilities hence my original question. The site had been up for sale for quite some time and there was hardly a rush from the most likely candidates to buy it. In other words JP got it because no one else wanted it, it is not seen as viable.  This could well become a millstone around the tax/toll payer's neck and for what, JP's vanity? Back to the original question, what really is needed?

This really is too much!

The site was secured to provide the moorings, something that many, many people were clamouring for.

Now, it's for JP's vanity???