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petersjoy

Rnli Online Shop

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In the present climate, where the the film industry, armed services, fire service and parliament have all come under scrutiny any form of risque activity, however slight must be not allowed to take hold. Once the stronghold of us men, all our emergency services  now rely very much on mixed crews and in ops are very more effective for it.

Just as when I started in heavy engineering a couple of pints at lunchtime was OK and much later in my career the social club bar was open at lunchtime until the early 90's at Courtaulds International Paint plant at Silvertown things change. 

Any £200m organisation needs good, strong leadership with vision, but I, also find that the wage bill is a bit heavy and concentrated on too few for a public donation financed organisation. I shall be making the journey to attend the AGM this year as entitled as a Govenor. 

 

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33 minutes ago, Islander said:

I will always support the RNLI as long as I can. I'm glad to say I have never needed their help but have been close to it when diving off the Farne Islands with a dead outbound on a rib. We got a tow from another boat back to harbour.

Any future restructuring within the RNLI should require ALL middle and upper management to take basic training and serve one month each year at a lifeboat station and be available to crew if required. Maybe a spell on the frontline might make men ( or women) of them. 

I have every admiration for what these guys are prepared to do. I , in the past, have trained divers in rescue and diver emergency recovery in all conditions but even in my younger days I don't think I could do what these guys call just another day.

I don't care if the guy pulling me out of the water has a mug with a nude lady on it or has had an 'unscheduled ( allegedly ) boat trip' saves my life. I would be forever grateful as I'm sure my family would be.

Upper and middle management don't see the real world they only have 'visions' of it.

Sorry, rant over, but I know who I support.

Colin:default_beerchug:

I almost agree 100%.

RNLI is the equivalent of a small corporation if measured by income, expenditure and asset base, it therefore needs a CEO used to managing such sums, it would be difficult to expect such a guy to have experience of boating/rescue/charity/volunteer based workforce etc. in addition to the CEO qualities necessary for the successful management of the RNLI .

I would however expect the next tier down (formally known as First Line Managers) to have hands on experience of frontline working, so as to be able to give good guidance to the CEO as and when such guidance is beneficial.      

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Hi Phil, 100% agreement would be a rare thing on a forum but I'm quite happy that we may think on similar lines whatever the percentage. What I would like to see is upper/middle white collars not going on team building weekends but spending time on the shop floor. The company I worked for in Cambridge did this and the salesmen had to spend a week working with us engineers. It was amazing the change of attitude between the two departments. Will this happen with the RNLI, I can only hope so. 

Colin

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1 hour ago, Islander said:

Hi Phil, 100% agreement would be a rare thing on a forum but I'm quite happy that we may think on similar lines whatever the percentage. What I would like to see is upper/middle white collars not going on team building weekends but spending time on the shop floor. The company I worked for in Cambridge did this and the salesmen had to spend a week working with us engineers. It was amazing the change of attitude between the two departments. Will this happen with the RNLI, I can only hope so. 

Colin

I got sent on one of those team building exercises; you know a rope hanging from a tree, a narrow river, two scaffold planks, some oil drums, 3 chickens, you get the picture.

Being very skeptical of this type of exercise I had a large bottle of whisky in my rucksack, on seeing the other teams struggle, we (my team) decided to plan how we would achieve the task so we sat under a tree to discuss how best to achieve the objective. I offered the whisky and all the team drank some whilst we watched people falling in the river, chasing chickens and discussed our plan, pretty soon the objective became less important, so we finished the bottle.

Time out was called and we returned to base as a bonded team, the other teams were still arguing; "I told you to take the chickens first" or "well done you left the planks behind" etc.

Our team clearly bonded  but we were not given the prize for the team that worked together best.  

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1 hour ago, Islander said:

Hi Phil, 100% agreement would be a rare thing on a forum but I'm quite happy that we may think on similar lines whatever the percentage. What I would like to see is upper/middle white collars not going on team building weekends but spending time on the shop floor. The company I worked for in Cambridge did this and the salesmen had to spend a week working with us engineers. It was amazing the change of attitude between the two departments. Will this happen with the RNLI, I can only hope so. 

Colin

Again I agree almost 100%, if at all possible it would be good for all RNLI management to experience being on a boat during a "shout". But sadly they could become a liability on board so it is unlikely to happen.

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Notice  to Members rec'd this afternoon. Could not get it all on one page so split into two.Screenshot_20180523-171617.thumb.png.14b4e75237d60551d693b0eb78aec89f.pngScreenshot_20180523-171655.thumb.png.21673ddf770746ca8348d128d722c3e6.png

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What happened to the RNLI burgees?

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I read the RNLI press release with interest. Not sure that a naked lady with a mans head printed on a mug constitutes hard-core porn but there we go! The unauthorised use of a lifeboat, yes, I do understand and support the RNLI's action on that one if only because had a 'shout' occured whilst she was at sea, and short handed, then the boat's operational capability would have been compromised.

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Screenshot_20180523-190331.thumb.png.99617d5abed5b04cc58b4217fbdcfae1.pngScreenshot_20180523-190615.thumb.png.9e65f988a09559cf50bb523bb56c71e5.pngScreenshot_20180523-190635.thumb.png.d19e08ef3897b45c611c5dfa25ea8d17.pngScreenshot_20180523-190712.thumb.png.dd58087d6993220fc8c7587740677258.pngScreenshot_20180523-190753.thumb.png.5638ab7938d5849683a95261a0214d17.pngScreenshot_20180523-190808.thumb.png.09e9d821417ffc9c0d7585194dd3bce7.pngScreenshot_20180523-190836.thumb.png.3fdf9315a55806bc16aeec401462f9c8.png

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On my phone so had to reproduce by screen print.

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Thanks Chris that provides a sensible balance to the issues.

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In fairness to one of the Whitby crew who was sacked for having a mug with a naked lady printed on it he is now clear to air his side of the story, which I post below:

As many of you know I was recently stood down by the RNLI for a breach of the Code of Conduct and finally today I am able to tell you my side of the story as I have been kept quiet by the RNLI until are appeal hearing was completed. Firstly I would like to say a massive thank you to everyone that has contacted us and supported us though this entire nightmare. Sorry I haven’t got back to you all as of yet hopefully I will soon. Today myself and Ben received the decision that will not be reinstated to the Whitby Lifeboat Crew which for us is a heart breaking decision as all we have ever wanted to do was to save lives at sea. The mugs where a light hearted joke between the crew of which no one of the crew was offended. Many of you will know that from time to time we have to see and deal with circumstances that no one should ever have to deal with of which I have received limited if any support from the RNLI after events like that. The mugs were found by an Area Lifesaving Manager and we as a crew were told that if they were taken off the station no further action would be taken. They were taken off station within 48 hours. 2 months later we received emails from the RNLI stating that we were under investigation for a breach of the Code of Conduct and we had to attend a mandatory interview. I was hounded for days to arrange an interview which I did for Thursday 15th March and we were told that we couldn’t have anyone sit in on the interview, which after consulting with my solicitor I should have been able to. After our interviews I was told this would be resolved within the next week. As a crew we were then told it was mandatory to attend a crew meeting on the 19th April for us to be updated on the progress of the investigation and provide the opportunity for feedback. within the meeting we were talked down, laughed at by a highly paid Inclusion & Diversity Manager for the RNLI on points we were trying to raise and in my opinion completely disrespected for the volunteer role we do. On the 24th of April I was then asked to attend a hearing meeting for the 30th of April. I had to take a day off work to attend this meeting. I was accused of being threatening and abusive towards a member of staff at the meeting held on the 19th of April which is completely false and I haven’t received an apology for and my impression was there for me to beg to stay on the crew. The next day I was contacted by the Hearing Manager and was sacked/stood down on the telephone, that conversation lasted less than 60 seconds. Since then we have had a huge media reaction and the RNLI have released several press releases making myself out in a extremely bad light. I feel that the punishment doesn’t reflect the situation - the mug wasn’t intended to be kept on Station. Everyone makes mistakes from time to time but it seems the RNLI don’t give second chances. I have been a dedicated volunteer and feel I have been made an example of. All of this has cost the institution thousand of pounds which is money supposed to be used to save lives at sea. Many of you will have seen in the Daily Mail the recent recruitment advertisement for a Safeguard Officer with a £40,000+ a year salary another just small example of the spending with the RNLI. If you give money to the RNLI and you don’t request it to been reserved for a particular station then it’s placed in the central pot and will be used to to investigate crew members throughout the county just a few being St Helier, Scarborough, Arbroath, Whitby, Bridlington, Filey, Cleethorpes and New Brighton. Designate the funds to your local station. But unfortunately today I received the news on my appeal and that the decision to stand me down has been upheld. Anybody that’s knows me will know that I am Lifeboat through and through and today’s news is devastating. Whitby 21 signing off.

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When an employer calls an employee to a disciplinary hearing it is a mandatory requirement to offer the employee some form of representation. I say some form because who that person can be can form part of a contract of employment, ie a Union official may not be allowed if the employer does not recognise a particular Trade Union.

Now how the law covers what in effect is an unpaid voluntary situation, a status that once covered most of the RNLI ? ?

Traditionally very few crew, with the exception of Engineers and famously the Spurn Head crew were full emplyees. That has now changed dramatically with the greater remit of "Life Saving".

It sounds to me to be a can of worms awaiting a tin opener if not correctly managed.

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Certainly to take 2 months to inform someone that they are the subject of an enquiry or investigation would appear to be appalling personnel management. The more so if the alledged misdemeanour is of such a serious nature as to warrant dismissal/permanent stand down

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Strikes me that the RNLI is showing a lamentable lack of respect for its volunteers. I'm not suggesting that crews are above the law/rules but the higher and mightier attitide now emanating from Pool is surely not a healthy one.

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9 minutes ago, JennyMorgan said:

Strikes me that the RNLI is showing a lamentable lack of respect for its volunteers. I'm not suggesting that crews are above the law/rules but the higher and mightier attitide now emanating from Pool is surely not a healthy one.

IMHO from what I have read the situation with "the mugs" was initially handled in an appropriate way (i.e. get them offsite and the matter is closed). What I can't understand is how that escalated/was allowed to escalate to the extreme conclusion we now see.

I also think for RNLI crew to risk their lives in a boat, that boat and boat station has to be more than a RNLI asset to them, they need to feel "some ownership",  now "rules are rules" and whilst the written rules for taking the boat out may resemble those for the use of a "pool car" they do need to be thoughtfully applied, particularly considering what the circumstances could be the next time the crew take the boat out, when crew moral and motivation has to at its highest and focused on the job in hand. 

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In this day and age charities are and need to be run like large corporate companies.  A lot of this goes into being able to hold themselves up and stand proud looking good out there. It is about getting well educated and passionate people to run their online division, build the brand and look as professional and well run as a company with many more millions of pounds to spend on such activities. All this does not come cheap, and the type of people who can help bring this about come from 'the wild commercial west' and so despite how one may be financed being very different, I can see why these days charities are run as competing businesses almost.

But, that does not and should not take away from the 'coal face' of, in the case of the .R.N.L.I saving peoples lives and helping those in need in our inland and coastal waters. If you give more to them it could be argued that being better than making their latest advert campaign as glossy. But I am surprised how many younger people believe that the Lifeboats are just part of the Coastguard all paid for somehow (e.g. the government) and not donations. This is especially so in areas many many miles from the coast and I remember only finding out more about the Lifeboats through Blue Peter!

The fact is I donate to them, I also hold their hard working 'men and women on the ground; with such high regard. Shaun at NYA has a pager on him at all times and could be called out at any moment - down tools and rush off to an incident that could be nothing or might be the difference between someone living or not - what dedication, pride and sheer selflessness.

It might leave a bitter taste to some, but without out continues donations things could drastically change and what worries me perhaps more than anything is that the overall amount of funds raises comes from legacies - as our society changes and I wonder will the Millennials of today be as willing to give in their legacies as the older generation today do so if it takes a lot of money to raise awareness and spend out elsewhere than just at the coal face to get the message across, I say so be it. And if that means some people in the head office getting a bit of cushy number and pension pot, well I don't see how it can be any different in the times we live in.

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Does anyone else feel that the 2015 RNLI “Calender Girls style” Calender now appears rather hypocritical 

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1 hour ago, LondonRascal said:

In this day and age charities are and need to be run like large corporate companies.  A lot of this goes into being able to hold themselves up and stand proud looking good out there. It is about getting well educated and passionate people to run their online division, build the brand and look as professional and well run as a company with many more millions of pounds to spend on such activities. All this does not come cheap, and the type of people who can help bring this about come from 'the wild commercial west' and so despite how one may be financed being very different, I can see why these days charities are run as competing businesses almost.

But, that does not and should not take away from the 'coal face' of, in the case of the .R.N.L.I saving peoples lives and helping those in need in our inland and coastal waters. If you give more to them it could be argued that being better than making their latest advert campaign as glossy. But I am surprised how many younger people believe that the Lifeboats are just part of the Coastguard all paid for somehow (e.g. the government) and not donations. This is especially so in areas many many miles from the coast and I remember only finding out more about the Lifeboats through Blue Peter!

The fact is I donate to them, I also hold their hard working 'men and women on the ground; with such high regard. Shaun at NYA has a pager on him at all times and could be called out at any moment - down tools and rush off to an incident that could be nothing or might be the difference between someone living or not - what dedication, pride and sheer selflessness.

It might leave a bitter taste to some, but without out continues donations things could drastically change and what worries me perhaps more than anything is that the overall amount of funds raises comes from legacies - as our society changes and I wonder will the Millennials of today be as willing to give in their legacies as the older generation today do so if it takes a lot of money to raise awareness and spend out elsewhere than just at the coal face to get the message across, I say so be it. And if that means some people in the head office getting a bit of cushy number and pension pot, well I don't see how it can be any different in the times we live in.

In this day and age charities are and need to be run like large corporate companies. 

I think this is the root of the problem: The RNLI has transitioned from being a collection box charity through being the equivilent of a SME and is now in the transition of aligning its policies and operating procedures to that of a corporation, what I believe we are currently seeing are "corporate growing pains". 

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On the 19th December 1981 the East Anglian Cruising Club were holding their Christmas weekend rally at Thurne and we were all there in the Lion, most of us having come by boat, enjoying a festive lunchtime session in the bar. Suddenly, Reg Parsons, the then owner of "Maidie", came in, called for silence and announced that he had just heard that the Penlee lifeboat had been lost with all hands, while attempting a rescue in a storm off the south coast of Cornwall. Christmas was not the same for us, after that.

We later found out that a helicopter rescue had not succeeded, for the simple reason that the wind was stronger than the forward speed of the Sea King, so they put the Penlee lifeboat on standby. She was a wooden "Watson" class boat, already more than 20 years old. The local RNLI authority could not be contacted, owing to the storm, so the coxwain decided to launch, into hurricane force winds of over 100MPH and waves over 60ft high. He selected seven men as his crew but turned down another, as he didn't want two members of the same family to be put at risk on the same service. The man he turned down, later became the coxswain of the new Penlee boat.

I myself have witnessed a successful rescue, off that same coast, a few years earlier, when serving on a Royal Fleet Auxiliary ship, which answered the "mayday" but could could only hold off while seven men were successfully rescued from a fishing boat, caught on a lee shore in storm force eleven conditions.

Perhaps you have already realised what I am trying to say? These are extraordinary people, of heroic proportions. In my day, the Institution was there to provide all it could, to help them do their work but their seamanship, and their raw courage, was what counted. 

So what about the Navy? Would a leading seaman of 15 years service, be given a dis-honourable discharge (which is what this amounts to) because he had a photo of a naked bird on the door of his locker? Or because he had been involved in a "sods' opera" on a night ashore in Gibraltar?  Henry Blogg must be turning in his grave. I wonder what he used to get up to in the Wyndham Arms on a Saturday night! I bet they wouldn't have dared suspend him.

 

What do we want? Heroes, or box tickers?

 

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4 minutes ago, Vaughan said:

On the 19th December 1981 the East Anglian Cruising Club were holding their Christmas weekend rally at Thurne and we were all there in the Lion, most of us having come by boat, enjoying a festive lunchtime session in the bar. Suddenly, Reg Parsons, the then owner of "Maidie", came in, called for silence and announced that he had just heard that the Penlee lifeboat had been lost with all hands, while attempting a rescue in a storm off the south coast of Cornwall. Christmas was not the same for us, after that.

We later found out that a helicopter rescue had not succeeded, for the simple reason that the wind was stronger than the forward speed of the Sea King, so they put the Penlee lifeboat on standby. She was a wooden "Watson" class boat, already more than 20 years old. The local RNLI authority could not be contacted, owing to the storm, so the coxwain decided to launch, into hurricane force winds of over 100MPH and waves over 60ft high. He selected seven men as his crew but turned down another, as he didn't want two members of the same family to be put at risk on the same service. The man he turned down, later became the coxswain of the new Penlee boat.

I myself have witnessed a successful rescue, off that same coast, a few years earlier, when serving on a Royal Fleet Auxiliary ship, which answered the "mayday" but could could only hold off while seven men were successfully rescued from a fishing boat, caught on a lee shore in storm force eleven conditions.

Perhaps you have already realised what I am trying to say? These are extraordinary people, of heroic proportions. In my day, the Institution was there to provide all it could, to help them do their work but their seamanship, and their raw courage, was what counted. 

So what about the Navy? Would a leading seaman of 15 years service, be given a dis-honourable discharge (which is what this amounts to) because he had a photo of a naked bird on the door of his locker? Or because he had been involved in a "sods' opera" on a night ashore in Gibraltar?  Henry Blogg must be turning in his grave. I wonder what he used to get up to in the Wyndham Arms on a Saturday night! I bet they wouldn't have dared suspend him.

 

What do we want? Heroes, or box tickers?

 

I don't think Heroes come corporate compliant.

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I’m a very big surporter of the RNLI it’s one of my Top 2 charities I contribute to a lot through out the year... I take my hat off to those Men and women who risk there lives every time they go out to rescue who ever..

How ever my disgust came last year How they treated Jerseys Coxwain and his crew.... Those idiots who run the charity need replacing... this is how a charity gets a bad name because of the idiots who end up causing controversy and upset... 

 

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I watched the St Ives boat on raining launch and recovery, looking at the crew made me quite emotional, and proud to support heroes like the RNLI  volunteers. 

I wasn’t alone , hundreds stood by.

 

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There has been mention of CEO's and senior management required to handle big institutions like the RNLI. Well. I can see a parallel with our beloved Broads Authority here, capabable CEO's who have yet to grasp the ethos of what they purport to manage.  For many years I was an auxilliary coastguard, the guys who coordinate maritime rescue, no heroics, not our job to get our feet wet! Inevitably I was involved with RAF Sea-King crews, RNLI and the RN. The banter is akin to the shop floor, it's part and parcel of the emergency services. Banter is not generally an office thing and probably not an undergraduate thing either. Banter is humour, it's what keeps people's spirits up when things become tough or monotonous, it's a way of life. Super educated CEO's and management need to grasp the facts of life rather than trying to eradicate them.

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Selfless, Compassionate and Brave- every single person who has, or will ever, set a foot off terrafirma and onto any kind of vessel should be grateful we have such people, for it's these people who make this service, not their "Manual of Policies/Procedures".

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