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Cal

Naughty-cal Heads To The Broads Again

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So back on the friendly forum.

We decided to have a few more runs across Breydon while it was quiet before moving onto St Olaves. 

Another early start this morning as we aim for Oulton Broad. 

Struggling with reception at the moment so pictures to follow later.

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13 hours ago, Boatingman said:

Here we go again Private v Hire

I have hired boats for 50 years and been on the broads most of those years I do not want to own a boat because through family and work commitments I would only use it 2/3 weeks a year and for personnel reasons I do not like the idea of syndicate boats

I have a RYA skippers certificate

In all of those years I have seen very few instances of bad behaviour or bad helmanship and more on the canals than the broads

The way you lot carry on people reading this thread would think the broads are no better than dodgem cars at a fairground

In general most people  have a nice quiet holiday on the broads 

one incident happens and everyone jumps on the bandwagon and starts shouting and becoming abusive

thats me finished with this forum

 

Ray

I totally agree Ray, I have been hiring for 25 years as a little girl and now a grown woman, I've witnessed the odd scrape but nothing major I've seen brilliant helming from both hirers and private owners but also pretty silly behaviour from both camps too

I'm sure most of us started out hiring but let's not live in glass houses, we all make mistakes from time to time except me of course :default_biggrin: Seriously though it is the height of the season, these things are going to happen unfortunately

I hope if ever I am fortunate enough to own my own boat one day I'll remember how I started

I take offence to comments about hirers not caring for the boat they hire, there must be the odd crew who really don't give a toss about the boat but I, and hundreds of others care and love the boat as if it were our own for the duration of our holiday

Ray, don't you go anywhere, we've lost too many good people already

Grace

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17 minutes ago, Gracie said:

Ray, don't you go anywhere, we've lost too many good people already

'ere, 'ere 

This debate crops up time and time again and I really wish we wouldn't keep falling out about it. Wise words from Vaughan, Simon and Grace among others. 

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Bbq breakfast to start the day.

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Not vegetarian then I see ?

have a good day may see you around Brundall if your around 

John

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8 minutes ago, Jbx5 said:

Not vegetarian then I see ?

have a good day may see you around Brundall if your around 

John

Definitely not.

Needed to use some stuff up out if the fridge so no better way.

There are some mushrooms and corn on there now so not all meat :default_laugh:

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2 hours ago, Cal said:

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We decided to have a few more runs across Breydon while it was quiet before moving onto St Olaves. 

Eat plenty of food, make the boat lighter........boat goes faster

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I have been sitting on my hands as this is not a thread I would normally get involved in and usually only skim, however and this is nothing to do with the OP and his comments once again we have members acting as spokespeople because they disagree with someone else`s opinion.

All this talk of a friendly forum is nonsense, the forum is a community and as such will always have individuals with differing opinions and attitudes, while it is everyone`s right to an opinion and to defend that opinion no one is entitled to belittle those who they disagree with or rubbish their posts, as for the hire boat industry and as an ex-hirer for many years I have a great deal of respect for their contribution, however they are not the be all and end all of the Broads just one sector and while they are a necessary part of the makeup neither the operators nor their craft and customers are beyond recrimination either through their impact on the water or with planning issues etc and are and should be subject to praise or criticism as anyone else depending on circumstances and not be placed in a sterile compartment, they stand or fall on their own merits.

Fred

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1 hour ago, Cal said:

Bbq breakfast to start the day.

20180722_085806.jpg

I love serving up a hearty portion of meat first thing in the morning :1310_thumbsup_tone1:

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Oulton Broad for the evening. Just had a very pleasant walk into Lowestoft and will get the water taxi back later.

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2 hours ago, rightsaidfred said:

neither the operators nor their craft and customers are beyond recrimination either through their impact on the water or with planning issues etc and are and should be subject to praise or criticism as anyone else depending on circumstances and not be placed in a sterile compartment, they stand or fall on their own merits.

That is all very well but my point is that there is a big difference, on a forum, between constructive criticism and baseless, defamatory allegations made with no real knowledge of the subject.

I don't know how to move a post across from another thread, but here are some examples of what has been posted on a thread called Connoisseur :

 

There is no way you should have to run the engine to start the heating.

It makes me angry that yards spout this rubbish to their customers instead of spending some of their money they have taken in hire fees in ensuring that the boat is up to standard.

I know that there is a difference in how a private and hire boat are used but there is no excuse for sending hire boats out with shot batteries.

They should check the batteries on a regular basis rather than leave it to hirers to find out they are not at their best. After all at this time of year even the cheaper yards charge through the nose for their boats.

 

You may call this constructive criticsm but I don't. It indicates a lack of real knowledge of the running of a boatyard and is therefore designed simply to inflame an argument. It could actually be considered libellous, as it is not true, and is certainly outside the T.O.S. of this forum.  I could quote a post from this thread, but I see it has already been removed by the moderators.

So when we started to get baseless and generalised criticism of hire boats from the same person, on this thread, it is no wonder that there was a "ground swell" of opinion against it.

I for one, am not prepared to accept this sort of thing without reacting to it.

 

 

 

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Lowestoft was buzzing today. Loads of people about enjoying the sunshine.

After a quick ferry ride back to Oulton Broad and a quick drink in the Wherry we are now back on the boat enjoying the sunshine.

Curry tonight.

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3 hours ago, Vaughan said:

That is all very well but my point is that there is a big difference, on a forum, between constructive criticism and baseless, defamatory allegations made with no real knowledge of the subject.

I don't know how to move a post across from another thread, but here are some examples of what has been posted on a thread called Connoisseur :

 

There is no way you should have to run the engine to start the heating.

It makes me angry that yards spout this rubbish to their customers instead of spending some of their money they have taken in hire fees in ensuring that the boat is up to standard.

I know that there is a difference in how a private and hire boat are used but there is no excuse for sending hire boats out with shot batteries.

They should check the batteries on a regular basis rather than leave it to hirers to find out they are not at their best. After all at this time of year even the cheaper yards charge through the nose for their boats.

 

You may call this constructive criticsm but I don't. It indicates a lack of real knowledge of the running of a boatyard and is therefore designed simply to inflame an argument. It could actually be considered libellous, as it is not true, and is certainly outside the T.O.S. of this forum.  I could quote a post from this thread, but I see it has already been removed by the moderators.

So when we started to get baseless and generalised criticism of hire boats from the same person, on this thread, it is no wonder that there was a "ground swell" of opinion against it.

I for one, am not prepared to accept this sort of thing without reacting to it.

 

 

 

I am sorry to disagree  Vaughan, I to don't like public criticism of businesses but in all the years I hired including Porter & Haylett I was never instructed to or had the need to run engines on moorings, whatever your experience which I fully respect for hire yards to instruct their clients to breach the Bye laws in this case no 83 is totally out of order.

When in business we had to not only accommodate our customers but had an obligation to conduct ourselves with regard for the community at large and hire yards are not or should not be any different, while I accept there will always be exceptional circumstances if a hire fleet is unable to maintain and handover the number of boats it operates to a required standard then it either needs to reduce the size of its fleet or increase its maintenance capability, cost is no excuse as this is passed on to the their consumer, every body businesses included have an obligation to the community at large and to conduct themselves in a manner that has minimum impact on the general public.

Fred

 

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48 minutes ago, rightsaidfred said:

I am sorry to disagree  Vaughan, I to don't like public criticism of businesses but in all the years I hired including Porter & Haylett I was never instructed to or had the need to run engines on moorings, whatever your experience which I fully respect for hire yards to instruct their clients to breach the Bye laws in this case no 83 is totally out of order.

When in business we had to not only accommodate our customers but had an obligation to conduct ourselves with regard for the community at large and hire yards are not or should not be any different, while I accept there will always be exceptional circumstances if a hire fleet is unable to maintain and handover the number of boats it operates to a required standard then it either needs to reduce the size of its fleet or increase its maintenance capability, cost is no excuse as this is passed on to the their consumer, every body businesses included have an obligation to the community at large and to conduct themselves in a manner that has minimum impact on the general public.

Oh Fred, I have read your post several times but I am afraid I don't understand your point. Now you seem to be saying that boatyards are telling their customers to break bye-laws? This sounds like "mission creep".

All this is supposition.

It supposes that the batteries have "had it". It supposes that the boatyards have casually allowed this to happen due to lack of maintenance. It supposes that they are raking in their customers' money without spending it on maintaining the boats. It now also supposes that when you moor on the Broads in the high season, you are going to get hit by a hire boat. Because it supposes that the driver of the hire boat is an in-experienced joy-rider.

I am not prepared to see this forum become like trip advisor. It is not admissible for someone to make allegations such as this without foundation in fact and I still suggest that it is contrary to the T.O.S. of this forum.

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Not realy relavent to this thread at all but I'd say if a boat needs to run an engine to start a webasto/eberspacher type heater it needs fixing especially if hired out as being fit for purpose for good money.

I've run these types of heating systems on boats with outboard charging systems along with 12v compressor fridge for 2 week runs with no problems before.

To bring this into the thread sounds like petty point scoring to me in defence of poor maintenence.

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Hi Vaughan I guess you know more about the hire boat industry than anyone on here but things are a changing regarding emissions the yards will have to sort out the battery situation sooner than later, I don’t have to start my engine to use the heating.

 cars won’t be able to run their engines in city’s much longer and  it’s got to work it’s way onto the rivers at some point.

 http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/politics/norwich-city-centre-drivers-who-idle-engines-while-stopped-may-face-20-fines-1-5425046

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17 minutes ago, Smoggy said:

Not realy relavent to this thread at all but I'd say if a boat needs to run an engine to start a webasto/eberspacher type heater it needs fixing especially if hired out as being fit for purpose for good money.

And I say you are wrong.

Not just technically but because you are automatically assuming that it is bad maintenance by the boatyard.

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Mod hat firmly on :default_dunce: :default_pirate: 

There is a good reason we dont allow criticism of businesses on this forum. 

The businesses concerned do read the forum, the BA do read the forum, many people read the forum.

Our view is this - if you have an issue with a business, contact them and give them the opportunity to fix it, the measure of a good business is not that it has no problems, but its how they fix any problems that come up.

Secondly this forum exists due to the sponsorship provided by many broads based businesses, if we allow attacks on businesses we may lose that sponsorship or a potential future sponsor, if that happens the forum closes. so the TOS state no attacking or bad mouthing businesses.

on name and shame we have a similar policy, no naming individuals (or by association to boat names) who have had the misfortune to get stuck on a bridge or run aground etc, particularly via photographs where the individuals are clearly identifiable or the boat name is prominently visible, this is to protect their dignity, if you had messed up and run aground you would be  mortified if it went out in a post, so if you wouldnt like it, think of the other person before you post it.

lastly, moderators can have their own opinions too, if we want to post as a moderator we should (if we remember) post the mod hat on statement at the start of the post, with this statement we are indicating  that the post has status as a moderation instruction, and that if you ignore it, you may run foul of the moderator team.

The other thing to remember is common courtesy, something that we see eroded even in real life sadly these days.

Thank you for your attention.

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38 minutes ago, grendel said:

Mod hat firmly on :default_dunce: :default_pirate: 

There is a good reason we dont allow criticism of businesses on this forum. 

The businesses concerned do read the forum, the BA do read the forum, many people read the forum.

Our view is this - if you have an issue with a business, contact them and give them the opportunity to fix it, the measure of a good business is not that it has no problems, but its how they fix any problems that come up.

Secondly this forum exists due to the sponsorship provided by many broads based businesses, if we allow attacks on businesses we may lose that sponsorship or a potential future sponsor, if that happens the forum closes. so the TOS state no attacking or bad mouthing businesses.

on name and shame we have a similar policy, no naming individuals (or by association to boat names) who have had the misfortune to get stuck on a bridge or run aground etc, particularly via photographs where the individuals are clearly identifiable or the boat name is prominently visible, this is to protect their dignity, if you had messed up and run aground you would be  mortified if it went out in a post, so if you wouldnt like it, think of the other person before you post it.

lastly, moderators can have their own opinions too, if we want to post as a moderator we should (if we remember) post the mod hat on statement at the start of the post, with this statement we are indicating  that the post has status as a moderation instruction, and that if you ignore it, you may run foul of the moderator team.

The other thing to remember is common courtesy, something that we see eroded even in real life sadly these days.

Thank you for your attention.

Wow, well ruddy said

:default_icon_clap:

Grace

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1 hour ago, grendel said:

Mod hat firmly on :default_dunce: :default_pirate: 

There is a good reason we dont allow criticism of businesses on this forum. 

The businesses concerned do read the forum, the BA do read the forum, many people read the forum.

Our view is this - if you have an issue with a business, contact them and give them the opportunity to fix it, the measure of a good business is not that it has no problems, but its how they fix any problems that come up.

Secondly this forum exists due to the sponsorship provided by many broads based businesses, if we allow attacks on businesses we may lose that sponsorship or a potential future sponsor, if that happens the forum closes. so the TOS state no attacking or bad mouthing businesses.

on name and shame we have a similar policy, no naming individuals (or by association to boat names) who have had the misfortune to get stuck on a bridge or run aground etc, particularly via photographs where the individuals are clearly identifiable or the boat name is prominently visible, this is to protect their dignity, if you had messed up and run aground you would be  mortified if it went out in a post, so if you wouldnt like it, think of the other person before you post it.

lastly, moderators can have their own opinions too, if we want to post as a moderator we should (if we remember) post the mod hat on statement at the start of the post, with this statement we are indicating  that the post has status as a moderation instruction, and that if you ignore it, you may run foul of the moderator team.

The other thing to remember is common courtesy, something that we see eroded even in real life sadly these days.

Thank you for your attention.

If that is policy, then the same courtesy should be applied to Dr J Packman and The Broads Authority. One can disagree but very distasteful comments appear not moderated many aimed at the gentleman in person. Many falling into that horrible Americanism "Fake News"  Just the other day on this forum he was accused of trying to get rid of all boats. 

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well we could ban all topics mentioning the BA, but since they are integral to the Broads and their decisions affect all of us we tend to give the posts discussing them a bit more leeway, we would of course be happy if the membership showed more self restraint when posting, but many a time when we ask for more restraint the cry goes up that peoples views are being stifled.

how do we please everyone ?

as the authority are unlikely to sponsor us they are considered fair game for criticisms, and to be fair we usually hear from supporters as well as detractors in those threads.

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But there is not a balance when it comes to personal attacks on the CEO.

I do not want to make a big thing out of it but there is a degree of double standards I feel. 

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right , we have had our little diversion from the thread, so we will leave Cal to proceed with his holiday tale  on this thread. sorry about that Cal, and back to you.

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