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****residential moorings poll****


jillR

would you consider having official residential moorings in broads boat yards to be a good thing?  

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much as I can see the benifits of liveaboard boats at any mooring spot I dont think public staithes is the right place for them to be allowed.

I would think that the vast majority of liveaboard owners are really nice and respectable people that you would be very happy to have next to you but there will always be the minority who will spoil the fun.

Norwich does have toilets and showers during manned hours but not free access 24 hours and also only one electric point that would then become the sole domain of liveaboards.

Boat toilets and 12v power are ok while you are cruising round for a week or 2 but surely the minimum requirement for a liveaboard has got to be a permenantly available power supply and proper sanitation and refuse disposal facility's.

I don't want to sound anti livaboard but if you look at what happened in Norwich and Beccles then for it to work there have to be safegaurds.

Private marinas and boatyards with living facilitys great. River banks and dykes possibly not so great.

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hi ian

the main things that has changed for liveaboard cruisers is the need for pump out points

and modern technology making it possible to use mobile phones and dongles etc

liveaboards have managed perfectly well using their own batteries for power for many years.

if places like norwich yacht station wanted liveaboards living in comfort, it would

be easy enough to have power and phone line put in for their exclusive use, the saving

on security and the revenue they brought in would more than cover it.

the broads will still have rogues as continual cruising will not stop but the decent

people who want to live aboard and keep their boat well will have security and so will their

yards.

we lived aboard for 3 years with no electricity or mobile phone, it was a little inconvenient to have to run the engine to

charge every couple of days if we dident cruise but we survived it :cool: and we had a young becky aboard to.

cooking was on gas heating was multi fuel and some of the lighting was rather pretty oil lamps so little battery

power was needed.

jill

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hi rod

im sorry to here youve had such a bad experience

im supprised any yard would allow that sort of behaviour as its obviously not in their own best interest

to so favour a minority of their moorers and makes little sence.

jill

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Hi Jill, sorry but the situations that Rod describes are inevitable unless electric and proper facility's are provided.

i can see the lure of liveaboard self sufficient life but congregations of boats and attempts to live without electric, toilets and proper refuse disposal are going to impact in a negative manor on others..

not saying that you would cause it but even the burning of solid fuel and the use of oil lamps must seriously increase the risk of fire and for that reason I would not like a self suficient boat next to mine.

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Perhaps the problem here is that we have all got so used to life's luxurys that we assume those that don't aspire to them are somehow undesirable and dirty. Whilst some are I suspect the vast majority are not. In fact most boaty people (those that spend extended time on their boats, moving or static) are generally extremely interesting, helpful and inventive and a joy to share a pint or two with.

I'm afraid modern life has become too sanitised where the even the faintest trace of dirt has to be eradicated less we all die of some unwelcome plague.

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not saying that you would cause it but even the burning of solid fuel and the use of oil lamps must seriously increase the risk of fire and for that reason I would not like a self suficient boat next to mine.

i dont know any ressys who use oil burning lamps any more but it worked for boats large and small for hundreds of years.

coal is a really dirty fuel and i would never use it and any boat that does will soon find that the dust it leves on every thing

would put them off, i would happily ban the use of it.

i believe to leave the situation re legislation as it is will not help any of us.

planning permission will enable a yard to write residential spacific mooring contracts.

jill

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I reckon folks should be allowed to live as they choose and if thats means on the river so be it,the rivers were there before any kind of authority and folks have lived on them for hundreds of years and long may it continue!

Andy

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I reckon folks should be allowed to live as they choose and if thats means on the river so be it,the rivers were there before any kind of authority and folks have lived on them for hundreds of years and long may it continue!

Andy

:clap

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I reckon folks should be allowed to live as they choose and if thats means on the river so be it,the rivers were there before any kind of authority and folks have lived on them for hundreds of years and long may it continue!

Andy

could have put it better my self Andy :clap:clap

if the BA got there finger out knocked some heads together & had a marina or had a marina owned by the BA for liveaboard it could work to there advantage instead or some liveaboard running scared from one free mooring to another....

the allow live aboard on other rivers & canal so why does the broad to have to be different if there was a little compamise from both sides then everybody is happy but i think the BA want it there own way or this would have got sorted alone time ago..

Jonny ice sliceice slice

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I also have to state that if meny on here owned a big enough boat i would guarantee they would like to be a liveaboard i know i would & my family would....

there are downsides to liveaboard well there are only three point to this at the moment

they use coal in winter

they dont move

i have know a few people who neva move all year round but i know boaters who are liveaboards that cruiser every week as long as the boat has been looked after & dont use coal in winter i am fine i love liveaboard life...

as for garden furniture there should only be what the yard supplies unless you have permission for from that yard ..

but that just my view & everybody has a view

Jonny ice sliceice slice

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I voted 'Yes', as having a residential boat in the same section of the Marina, in which my boat is moored, I see as a major 'plus point', as I know the people who reside on it, they know me, and my boat.

I'm sure that they know most everybody who moors there, and their boat.

Had I experienced what Rod had experienced, it might have influenced my thinking, but then its not fair to 'tar' everyone with the same brush. There are other residential boats in another area of the marina, and although I don't know the residents, I have never heard anyone say anything negative.

One large boat (barge) does have quite a colourful garden on the deck, but everything is contained within the confines of the boat, and nothing (e.g. garden furniture etc) spreads onto the jetty.

So, as far as marina based residential boats goes, I have no concerns. In fact as I have already mentioned, I see it as beneficial.

I reserve judgement on non-marina based residential boats, as I do have concerns regarding sanitation if they don't move at regular intervals and visit a 'pump-out' point.

I am aware that there is an attitude of 'tip it over the side', when nobody is looking.

How am I aware, well, when I bought my boat last summer, and was enquiring at several Marinas for a berth, I asked if they had facilities for emptying chemical toilets, as my boat if fitted with a Thetford Cassette toilet, just as I have had in all of my many touring caravans for years.

The owner of one large and well known marina said, no we don't have facilities for emptying chemical toilets, as we are not connected to the main sewage system, and the chemicals upset the biological action of the septic system.

However, that should not stop you coming to our marina, as if you are using the Green non-toxic toilet fluid (which I have done for years) you can just tip it over the side when you are ‘out & about’, as that’s what most people do. Don’t worry; the eels will take care of it. :o

I was somewhat ‘taken aback’ by this comment/advice, as although the Broads are tidal, they most definitely aren’t the sea.

Therefore, if this unsanitary practice does go on among some boaters on the Broads, does the same apply to the river/dyke based residential boats, that never move?

The thought of falling into the Broads does seem to be something to be avoided at all costs, and I’m not talking about drowning. :o

BTW, the Green non-toxic toilet fluid is not at all detrimental to septic tank systems, unlike the Blue, which contains carcinogenic Formaldehyde, and Methanol.

Oh yes, in case you are wondering, the marina where I’m moored does have chemical toilet emptying facilities. :)

Dave

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From what I read there are some points that are good & also bad so if we could get the BA to make some sort of residential marina or a private yard that they will allow them in to a yard where all of the above are taken in to account.

Like you say there Are some out there that spoil it for the rest. So I think the BA should concentrate on then rather than the liveabpard that do it right.

I know there is one boat that pisses me off is our basin that uses coal all the time i down mind the smell from the BBQ but from a wood burner also the smell but I like them to much not to say anything this is them not the yard it self.

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i dont know any ressys who use oil burning lamps any more but it worked for boats large and small for hundreds of years.

we lived aboard for 3 years with no electricity or mobile phone, it was a little inconvenient to have to run the engine to

charge every couple of days if we dident cruise but we survived it and we had a young becky aboard to.

cooking was on gas heating was multi fuel and some of the lighting was rather pretty oil lamps so little battery

power was needed.

And as Rod says they did use them and the boats did burn.

I am still in the yes camp but with controls, Jonny's idea of 100% residential marinas would be ideal and I am sure there must be a couple that would welcome the idea.

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the perfect luxury mooring

from a residentials point of view

toilet emptying facilities

water

household waste disposal

power

..................................

these come into the luxury category

showers

washing machine

phone line

car parking

a small garden shed for storage of... fire wood, repair ingredients, small food freezer.

jill

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I certainly voted YES, its down to each yard if they wish to have residentials. Each yard can draw up thier own rules.

The only problem i can see is, space. The yard would need to provide a `lock up` for any resisential. As they all have stuff that cant fit into the boat.

Yes, tables chairs, bbq :) and so on, if this extra stuff is managed propperly, the Yard owner would be able to continue to provide a neat and tidy yard.

Someone mentioned riverbank take overs, yes i have seen this as well on the Rivers, slowly a river bank gets taken over, reeds cut, chairs, tables, sofas apear, and before you know it, theres a small community.

I would presume that not all live aboards would want to live in a Yard, many may well want to stay on the Riverbanks of the River.

If BA do adopt these new rules, than they certainly deserve a pat on the back.

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hi rod

a few spoil it for the majority.

if legislation was made for the few rather than the many then houses would be banned as residential. :)

pressure on the yard owner to put his foot down is the way to ensure well managed moorings.

large yards could form a moorers association type group through the Internet to trouble shoot and help the

yard owners to stay in the loop if needed.

if you have a nice yard owner it can be hard to pass on negative feed back.

hi brian

i put the storage option in the luxury section as its desirable rather than essential.

i rent a lock up for my storage area away from the boat as i have a family history of hording to live up to.

.....................................................................

i see both options as workable residential mainly moorings and yards with a few.

in yards with limited residential moorings i believe it would be better to have residentials spread out rather than

herded into one area as its in the nature of peeps to get tritorial, also better to spread the eyes for security perposes.

jill

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:shock::shock::shock: It's a shame Rod that you lost the long reply as I would have loved to have read it however, Rod is only one person among many.

With regards to the "man who walked onto his boat" it was me who saw him and the man walked to Rod's boat and opened the hatch and removed a key, whilst he did this I was watching him and he saw me looking however, I presumed he had arranged this visit with Rod as he knew where the key had been left for him. On top of that if Rod wanted someone to look after his boat then maybe he should have asked. There are many people in marina's etc who have strangers arrive on their boats to carry out work on them - if nothing is arranged with anyone else to look after their boats then so be it. Should I get murdered for saying something?

Personnally I think that liveaboards do contribute to security (many times over) as many times whilst on my boat I have watched kids etc and strange people walking around until they go away and make sure that they know I am watching.

The fact that all boats have to run their engines at some stage and Rod does the same also when he turns up at his boat at whatever hour - to get hot water etc Do anyone else complain? Is this any different to what 100% of boaters do anyway?

Although I was not here prior to the electric points being put in I have been informed that there was not 6 liveaboards around this area then anyway.

Deny other users to the water/electric points? How on earth do they do that then? Do they have locks on the water taps? The water taps are open to any users and regarding the electric points (which Rod has one) is paid for via the boatyard.

I do agree with the poo/wee bits and I have had many arguments with dog owners myself who wee etc around the water/electric posts, Only 2 days ago I was threatened to be stabbed for asking a resident (not liveaboard) not to let his dog wee around the post outside Rod's boat as I think it is disgusting and dog owners should NOT allow their dog(s) to wee etc around the water/electric area nor any where where boaters have their ropes and electric cables laying. And I am glad that someone berated Rod whilst his dog had a wee at the rear of somebody's boat - I am glad that I am not the only one who cares.

Wood/coal burners have NOT increased at all around Rod's boat in fact they have dropped there is only 3 and one was only fitted 2 weeks ago and none are closer than 50m from Rod's boat. What about when Rod has his diesel heater running for hours on end - other boaters hear the noise of the motor, do we care or complain???

I have no problems with living on my boat with my wife as we are living our dream. We like it where we are and try to keep to ourselves but if I was to spot any problems where we are then I would take the neccessary action - this would include Rod's boat.

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I guess down south you get a better class of resident, I don't recognise the description that Rod describes. Those that I have encountered (water gypsies aside) have always been extremely friendly and helpful, often going out of their way to look after the boats of absentee owners.

The only downside I have found is that they are generally so friendly and ready to chat that if you go down to pinch a short afternoon sail it can take quite an effort to cast off. ;)

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hi rod and welcome andy

legislation is coming like it or not

im just trying to iron out and air some of the wrinkles before the dye is cast

and try for a solution that fits the majority bill.

rod i hear your message loud and clear ... residentials in a residential specific basin.

Give them official recognition and things could change IMHO to the detrement very quickly.

treat em mean and keep em keen

i respect your right to your point of view.

jill

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one thing im fairly sure of

a residential only yard would be the safest yard on the broads as far as thieves and vandalism goes.

i wonder if it would get non residents pretending to be residential to get a mooring there.

jill

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my vote is yes, I think it unfair to restrict or remove or inflict any lifestyle values or preferences onto any one else, my motto is live and let live,

just because I have a boat I use for holidays does not mean I should have any say or influence on whether anyone else uses thier boat for holidays or to live aboard, I thank Norfolk and Suffolk and the folk that live and work there for thier hospitality and for sharing it with me

In my experience we have had zero crime on our mooring in the 3 years that we have been there purely and simply because the camp commandant lives in the gateway on his boat from Feb to November, and he is absolutely on the ball. not just challenging strangers but keeps a log of reg numbers of cars he does not recognise

as for the eyesores, no Marina owner is going to allow any thing other than an attractive development, the more attractive, the more he can charge, by providing a power and water hook up, pump out, some block paving to park on and have a private patio next to your boat (no grass to cut and no ruts in winter) maybe space for a shed he can triple his income from a mooring by making it an attractive place to live then its a win win for the residents, the marina owner and the jolly holiday makers like myself.

10 such moorings on a 100 mooring marina is not going to generate that much extra traffic, distubance etc but would increase the total mooring income by 20% per year and decrease any security costs. I do not think for one second that increase in profitability will mean a reduction in my mooring fees!

I honestly cannot see a downside to permitting this, providing regulated controlled moorings has to be better than the ad-hoc, nod and a wink situation that prevails at present, start by granting consent where a residential use has allready been established by use of say 10 years or more, then permit developments to a standard within Marina's. then look at the bye laws where boat licencing is only granted where a residential address is provided, then act against unlicenced users, this will get rid of the eyesores as they will not be welcome in the Marinas and so will not be able to buy a licence without an addess Job Done

this is only my opinion,

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hi rod

but while this system of nod and wink prevails lets stop the gradual creep of ressys under the radar and make it official with residential terms and conditions on the mooring agreement.

:clap

this is what most residential boaters have been preying for for years on the broads.

jill

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