****residential moorings poll****

[jillR]

with the BA taking care of the planning permission caveats (sensibly)

and the boat yards dealing with the mooring contracts

hopefully all should go relatively well

as long as all partys understand whats needed to make it work.

jill

[senator]

I hope it does go smoothly Jill and I do support the motion with my previously stated concerns but ressys will be running the gauntlet thrown down by the few that are constant cruisers, all be it without ever moving, the ones that park their wrecks and polute and destroy the area that they take over.

Ressys only or dedicated sections to a marina/boatyard would cover all the bases I have mentioned, if this is not the case I fear all being tard with the same brush and the resultant backlash setting up a new breed of unsuitable boats for the broads.

Good luck

[jillR]

hi ian

i fear there will always be pirates on the broads but with the good residentials gaining legitimate moorings,

access to better facilities and Internet connections you will see an improvement in tracking trouble via the forums etc

helpful eyes and ears across the region especially when its most needed in the long dark winter months and during floods etc

here my 1st line of attack if i think there is a waterborne threat at night is a quick flash from my camera, usually works

a treat

a. they know there are active eyes about

b. they know they may have been caught on camera.

jill

[Guest]

Hi Roy

Thanks for the welcome and I do understand how you feel but if you start shouting the odds the way you did then you must expect replies to come winging your way as explanations are required. Self preservation comes to mind. No one is stopping you running your engine as it is a requirement of owning a boat.

It seems to me that you are talking alot about the past and not where we are now and that is fair enough - but surely that is now gone so should be forgotton?

Regarding the grass area opposite my boat - as far as I am aware there is no liveaboard there - but if what you say is true I hope you told them where to get off.

I shall also continue to use my diesel heater when it is cold - that is what it is designed for. I have no problem with that either.

I go to my moorings now with a little trepardation that my previous good relationship with the ressys in my yard (there I go again ) has been somewhat soured. Not just with the one who challenged me on the NBN to explain myself which I welcome but with the whole group as I expect the (oops I was going to name the yard again) ***** rumour mill is active again.

Rob, if no one else wants to speak to you then It is up to them but I have no argument with you and I do not believe that others are that small minded either (well maybe some). Not all ressys should be tarred with the same brush, there are some decent ones out there as well. I have met many here since Oct 09 and class them as friends also. Prior to being a ressy I also met and befriended many in Broadsedge - there are some nice friendly boaters out there.

Sue and I came to the Norfolk Broads to live our dream for a few years and to R & R from my previous work life and do not want hassles with anyone - I enjoy talking and having a good time with others and shall hopefully fulfill my dreams of living on our boat for a few years relaxation. I do not bear grudges with anyone Rod. Where else could you wake up to what I have at present?

[jillR]

it never occurred to me what a problem dog mess could cause at yards as im not a dog owner.

i can imagine that it would be at its worst at hire yards as there are visitors that dont have to use the yard

on a regular basis

i can also imagine that the dogs will be as exited as the hirer on arrival and the owner will be distracted with

all the rigmarole of getting aboard.

perhaps a sign that owners whos dogs mess is not cleared by the owner will be fined, might help

and some dog mess bins well signed up or some of these ...

http://www.petstuffgalore.co.uk/dog-pro ... lAodsyBOvg

jill

[Dan]

Hi Jill

I reckon a hireyard would have more incentive and urgency in keepng areas clear as I can imagine the grief and letters of conplaint to them and their agents if the key areas were badly fouled. Someone moaning in reception with another stack of arrivees would not create the kind of repeat business impression you have to work towards if having any intention of staying around for the long term. Also if they have done a long journey loo breaks for dogs will also have happened mid journey..

I would suspect the privately/independently owned purely berthing marinas would be more of an issue if anything, especially as hirers tend to board there boats and go, whereas boat owners often stay in the yard longer, doing jobs, sleeping aboard in the yard more regularly etc. They also do not need to continually generate the same amount of new or returning business that a holiday company has so their outlook could be different if they were of the mindset, especially as private berths are not in an abundant supply in relation to demand.

Just a few differents thoughts on the same situation anyway....

All the best

Dan

[jillR]

thanks dan

good points

jill

[Guest]

Well I have enjoyed reading other members thoughts about issues on this subject but I can only hope something posative can come from this & every one is happy

[Guest]

Hi Rod

Off out today down south for a few days so may not be here when you are however,

Andy

[Guest mrfixercars]

hi

rod

your commet

"Someone (another ressy ) challenged me when I was taking my dog for a walk over there that I was not allowed on that patch. Sorry once again this is an attempt to deny communal areas to legitimate moorers. Just as well I am not the shrinking violet type but it does make for an uncomfortable feeling when I am leaving my boat for weeks on end in the vicinity of these types"

What do you mean by " THESE TYPES"

as i take it your on about me.

cliff

[Guest]

I voted in favour of residentials - it's a way of life to be honest I have envied at times.

Yes just like in every housing estate all over the country there are those that don't live as we think they should and will abuse anything available to them - this I think is a minority group as always and would be an issue for the marina owner to resolve ( or relevant authorities).

We have 2 or 3 liveaboards where we moor - never seen them as any different to anyone else in the marina. They have a boat, they enjoy their boat and get on with their lives in exactly the same way that we do.

I also feel there is a benefit in the additonal security on site after everyone else has gone home for the day.

[jillR]

hi peeps

i am afraid i do not have any confidence in the BA, i believe they have an agenda that does not include the "human element" and would prefer the broads to be the home of the waterfowl

the "National Park" is a route to this, through the National Park, funding and preservation will not be an issue, the opportunity to remove the human element and argument for removing the human element will become more viable to them, returning the broads as a natural habitat without human intervention means almost zero running costs, allowing the sea to broach costs nothing in financial terms,

the holiday trade is dying on its feet and the strength that they had is waning as the fleets decline and the companies fold and amalgamate, I read somewhere that there are 2000 privately registered boats and around 700 registered hire boats, that is quite a shift towards private ownership but our fees will be insignificant to the financial benefits that National Park will bring

if you wish to continue to holiday on the water here, as i see it, pushing for residential use is a must.

if you have personal issues with another member, i would ask that you please deal with it via PMs were possible.

thank you all for the feed back, please keep it coming.

jill

[senator]

The National Park debate has been done and dusted and now resides in statute that the Broads are not a national park.

Given that it wasn't how do you think having residential boats on the Broads would strengthen the argument against it? Would it not be more likely that increased residency and with it population would cause a greater risk to the natural environment and strengthen the argument for national park status?

Hire boats are increasing on the Broads and Tourism is after years of decline recovering in the area, the increase in private boats is also contributing heavily to the running costs of the Broads, Government cuts however will no doubt be removing much of the funding available for national parks.

Sorry Jill if I sound anti residential, I am not, just pointing out some of the counter arguments.

[jillR]

hi ian

i understand that National Park status is not possible as long as the BA have navigation under its umbrella.

as a National Park i presume there are other wild life pots that the BA will be able to dip their fingers into.

i presume boating groups would need to be removed group by group as detrimental to wildlife and the environment, 1st the weakest groups then when the broads are so silted that yachts cant sail the deed is done.

i dont consider boats of any kind are much of a threat to the natural environment here as boaters rarely get off their boats other than at allotted moorings.

fishermen and wild life photographers crossing areas of wild life importance dont seem to be causing problems so i dont see that boaters as detrimental either.

my moorings are 90% residential and we have visits from kingfishers, otters, grass snakes bats etc and thats in the city. our otter knows we have some big fish under our boats.

perhaps the broads are coming into the age of the narrow boat with their shallow 18" draft.

i believe the decline in the hire boats has had a bad impact on silting.

i do hope that hire yards prosper but we have lost so many already.

over the years ive been here i have seen the movement of hire boats decline and not much evidence of much of an improvement, if there is an improvement than i hope it can be sustained.

most boat yards will charge more for a residential mooring which would help boost their finances to improve the yards facilities for all and the yard owner will have the benefit of life after dark.

been a long day so im off for an early night

jill

[Guest]

The decline in hire boats since the peak of the 70's (from about 8000 to 1000) has been blamed on a number of things including the BA's management.

The primary cause though, was that customer demand itself dropped, due to the sudden availability of cheap flights and holidays abroad, where the weather was less of a gamble.

For a long time, the BA did neglect their dredging responsibilities, but they have since increased their effort and for the past two years, it has been much more in evidence. If the renewed enthusiasm continues, then grounding should no longer be an issue.

The apparently widely held belief that the BA, in partnership with other "sinister" green tree hugging organisations, such as the RSPB, NWT, Natural England etc., have that secret agenda to heavily restrict, or even shut down Navigation altogether. Even if that were true, it would be such a fundamental denial of UK laws, affecting so many people and organisations, (many of no small influence), that it is just not feasible.

Theorising for the moment on the scenario of the Broads having no environmental governing body at all, regulating the waterside development and preventing over-commercialism, I think that would be far worse. Like many other people, I visited this area in the 70's , and far from the often used phrase "boom time", the place was being murdered. Eight thousand hire boats were too much for the system to cope with, and the nose to tail queues along the rivers from May to October were very frustrating, just like driving along the M1.

IMHO (though undoubtedly not everyone's ), the situation today is immeasurably better, for hirer's and private owners alike, much more able to appreciate and enjoy the particular qualities of the area, almost as in the 50's.

Having said all that, and also carefully reading the comments people have made on this very interesting thread, I still think that Liveaboards should be a carefully managed and controlled aspect of the Broads, rather than totally banned. The lifestyle exists almost everywhere else in the UK and around the World, with good and bad examples, but to ban it completely over such a large public area is , and I hesitate to use this now somewhat hackneyed phrase, a denial of human rights.

[jillR]

, I still think that Liveaboards should be a carefully managed and controlled aspect of the Broads, rather than totally banned.

this is also in the best interests of the existing ressys.

where it could all fall down is if the BA install DP24 New Residential Moorings, in some form

then block applications left right and centre out of hand using some thing like ....

e) Would not have an adverse impact on:

the character or appearance of the surrounding area;

protected species, priority habitats and designated wildlife sites;

the amenities of neighbouring occupiers; or

bank erosion.

jill

[Guest mrfixercars]

hi

rod

sorry if i came over as haveing a pop but you didnt say when this happened as we are the only ones over here and we've only been here since 12/09

now i know it was not me

sorry again if i came over that way

cliff & vicky

[Dan]

...the holiday trade is dying on its feet and the strength that they had is waning as the fleets decline and the companies fold and amalgamate, I read somewhere that there are 2000 privately registered boats and around 700 registered hire boats, that is quite a shift towards private ownership but our fees will be insignificant to the financial benefits that National Park will bring....

Hi Jill

I dont think it's right to say the holiday trade is dying on its feet. Boom times are here again for UK holiday companies and the Broads is no exception. There are significant increases in numbers through significant additions at Le Boat (prebiously Connoisseur) who off the top of my head have around 40 (?) more, Richardsons must have around 30 more, DRL at Womack must have about 13 and were a new hirefleet for last year, Freedom have around 13 and only appeared two or three seasons back to quote just three examples... numbers may have significantly reduced since the 70s, and numbers were still reducing five years ago but the trend has gone the other way for now, fleets are growing not folding.

I have my concerns and interests in when this pocket of boom time falls slightly but for now (and hopefully for the future too) things are very good

All the best

Dan

[jillR]

thats good to hear dan

it doesnt seem so long since i was hearing of yard after yard closing.

are there any yards left on oulton broad?

i just wish more of the little yards had survived.

how many of these yards are left?

viewtopic.php?f=55&t=8732

jill

[Dan]

Hi Jill

Topcraft are still going strong on Oulton Broad. They also have a new boat for this year - "Blue Kestrel" which hopefully is finished or not far off now but most of the increase in numbers seems to have happened on the more popular northern rivers.

All the best

Dan

[jillR]

nice looking web site to

http://www.topcraft-cruisers.co.uk/index.html

jill

[senator]

Think the Northerns are always going to be more popular for hire boats as it is there that you find the chocolate box picture and everything is closer together.

Only when the northerns become so overcrowded that you can either not fit any more boats on them or there is no more space for hire yards will the Southern rivers experience significant hire craft growth.

It sort of makes sense that if BA are going to designate residential moorings the South would be the obvious place for them, allowing Northern yards to accommodate growing numbers of hire craft.

[jillR]

hi ian

i think it would be a good thing for all yards to be able to have some ressys if they feel it would work for them, if they have

the facilities as they know there needs and wants.

ressys dont cruise as often as hire fleet or private boats on the whole, so would not add significantly to northern rivers

congestion.

jill

[senator]

Yes Jill, If the places are within existing private Marinas But if they were to say designated residential marinas only maybe any space that can be used for hire yards will be required again soon. Hire boats tend to be bigger now than they were in the previous heyday of Broads Hire so mooring space will be at a premium, if the growth continues.

Then again maybe yards will see their future in Residential rather than being at the mercy of hire and Holiday trends, forcing the hire trade to expand in the Southern Rivers although that could well confuse things a bit as the re developed infrastructure of the Southern Broads seems to have been built up around private boating, with higher price but higher quality pubs and restaurants replacing the more traditional Broads Hostelry's.

[jillR]

hi ian

i personally would not like to see hire yards converting to ressy only yards and i dont believe the BA would allow that to happen.

i think its going to be hard enough to get the BA to allow enough planning permission for existing residential boats.

if the hire yards did flourish then i believe they would still want the option to incorporate a few ressys to help with security etc especially out of season and would probably consider the room given over for them as beneficial.

the hire yards with their facilities are important to us all.

jill