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Andrewcook

Time Share

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Hi all to NBN members can they tell me is Time Sharing a Boat is Cheaper then Hiring a Boat say Twice a Year. As to what size Craft will that enable people to sharing a Craft and other factors with Sharing is concern as to Broads Ambition being kept in prestige condition may I add.

 Andrew Cook. 

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Depending on how many syndicate members you have almost certainly it’s cheaper but you lose the option of just turning up on a nice weekend  and going out. Most syndicate boats don’t allow you to store personal items onboard either. BA is run very different from most. 

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5 hours ago, brundallNavy said:

 Most syndicate boats don’t allow you to store personal items onboard either

You know I had never thought of that. We had duplicates of all sots on our boat, toiletries, towels. Something to change into if it got suddenly warmer or colder. Wet weather gear. Seaboots, maps, bird book, radio etc etc.

It is actually a bit off putting for me but I guess a big grab bag that does not get unpacked at home could overcome some of my objections.

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Hello Andrew,

BrundallNavy is correct that on syndicate boats we limit the storage of personal items, after saying that most owners will have a boat kit they bring with them.

Boat or syndicate share is not for everyone, for Tan & I when we bought into Ranworth Breeze in 2001 (second weeks allocation after it launch) after research of syndicate boats on the canals and the Broads it was a means of having two weeks holiday afloat, it allowed for other types of holidays to be taken and fitted in with work.

Syndicate/boatshare is ideal if still working and can not justify the cost of owning your own boat.

Broad Ambition is a boat shared by a few owners, family and friends, a number of boats though out the country operate in a similar manor. If you look at various boating magazines or boating websites you will find adverts asking for people to share a boat with.

A good reference is the www.boatshare.co.uk website, it has advertisers and free ads where are asking for shares or selling shares and forming syndicates.

For us it was ideal, cost effective, now we have more time available we bought another share last year.

If anyone wants advice about boat/syndicate share by all means contact me.

Regards

Alan

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Isn't it strange how words play on our perception? 

Syndicated ownership has an air of respectibility where as "time share" sums up dodgy characters on Spanish Islands.

"Vending" is another word like that, I worked in the industry for a while and we would indoctrinate staff to say "Automatic catering equipment" never "Vending".

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Syndicate ownership had a bad period between 2007 and 2008 which resulted in jail time for one of the syndicate groups at the time, several of the boats we know of on the Broads were effected and on the canals it effected many more. 

We had a canal holiday booked at the time with RCI and were advised that the boat we had booked was no longer available, we were given an alternative at six weeks before the holiday; It effected 600 plus narrow boat shares at the time and gave timeshare a bad name at the time.

In the early days of the Amusement Industry jukeboxes were regarded and sold as phonographs rather than the jukebox seen at the time in the Juke Joints.

Regards

Alan

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For anybody considering Shared Ownership, don't get confused between Time Share and Shared Ownership.

I don't think there are any Time Share boats on the Broads (I'm sure somebody will put me right if there are), all the available boats being Shared Ownership schemes. There are both types of schemes on the canals though.

The main difference between the two is that with Shared Ownership there is no company involved that could go bust, taking your money with it; unless the management company keeps a share in the boat as happened in one case quite a few years ago.

I'm pretty sure that none of the present Broads Shared Ownership schemes have part of their boats owned by their management company.

Some of the Broads schemes are self managed so the above wouldn't apply.

With Time Share the company usually owns the property (boat) and if they go bust your money usually goes with them.

Roy

ps: hadn't read Alan's last post when I posted this - apologies.

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35 minutes ago, webntweb said:

For anybody considering Shared Ownership, don't get confused between Time Share and Shared Ownership.

I don't think there are any Time Share boats on the Broads (I'm sure somebody will put me right if there are), all the available boats being Shared Ownership schemes. There are both types of schemes on the canals though.

The main difference between the two is that with Shared Ownership there is no company involved that could go bust, taking your money with it; unless the management company keeps a share in the boat as happened in one case quite a few years ago.

I'm pretty sure that none of the present Broads Shared Ownership schemes have part of their boats owned by their management company.

Some of the Broads schemes are self managed so the above wouldn't apply.

With Time Share the company usually owns the property (boat) and if they go bust your money usually goes with them.

Roy

ps: hadn't read Alan's last post when I posted this - apologies.

Hi Roy,

What you say is true.

I would steer clear of any management company that retained any percentage of the boats ownership. 

As you ourselves and Southern Crusader became self managed in 2012 after we repudiated our management company, we looked at other management companies at this time but decided to go self managed, the result was Management charges reduced from nearly £1000 per year to £700 in the first year and lower ever since. The boat is better maintained and with upgrades from the owners wish lists all within the set budget each year.

To give you an example during the winter service period our forward and lounge seating was renewed, we also our bow thruster with a more powerful twin blade model. This was an hefty cost, but we set the budget for two years to pay for the upgrades.

If anyone has concerns with boat ownership then please check the Small Ships Registry, We changed our registration with them in 2012.

Regards

Alan

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11 hours ago, Andrewcook said:

Hi all to NBN members can they tell me is Time Sharing a Boat is Cheaper then Hiring a Boat say Twice a Year. As to what size Craft will that enable people to sharing a Craft and other factors with Sharing is concern as to Broads Ambition being kept in prestige condition may I add.

 Andrew Cook. 

As other people have mentioned.  It is not 'time share' but shared ownership.  On Moonlight Shadow, after a small initial amount to purchase your 8%, it works out at £400 a week if you take all the allocation.

The thing with shared ownership is that you get to know all the foibles, how everything works and where everything is.  When hiring I used to find it was a day or so each trip to find where things were.

There are a number of shares on the market at the moment, including mine! 

Two new ones on Ranworth Breeze I see.

 

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1 hour ago, SueH said:

As other people have mentioned.  It is not 'time share' but shared ownership.  On Moonlight Shadow, after a small initial amount to purchase your 8%, it works out at £400 a week if you take all the allocation.

The thing with shared ownership is that you get to know all the foibles, how everything works and where everything is.  When hiring I used to find it was a day or so each trip to find where things were.

There are a number of shares on the market at the moment, including mine! 

Two new ones on Ranworth Breeze I see.

 

Sorry Sue, 

Last week we sold the share we had available, as you say we now have two shares available. 

I wish you the best of luck with your remaining share, come on people Sue is offering this share at £3000 for 4 weeks allocation each year, it is a steel at that price even if you only use it for two or three weeks.

Regards

Alan

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16 minutes ago, ranworthbreeze said:

Sorry Sue, 

Last week we sold the share we had available, as you say we now have two shares available. 

I wish you the best of luck with your remaining share, come on people Sue is offering this share at £3000 for 4 weeks allocation each year, it is a steel at that price even if you only use it for two or three weeks.

Regards

Alan

Now reduced.  £2,900, to purchase 8% of the boat.  Then £132/month to cover annual costs.  Owners pay their own pumpout and refuelling costs.

Sue

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One thing people HAVE`NT made mention of is that Syndicate ownership should definitely NOT be looked at as "a cheap form of hiring", it is`nt, it`s "SHARED OWNERSHIP" where the syndicate owners are JOINT owners with a responsibility to look after the boat, and respect likewise owners property. Unlike a hireboat, the fix it fairies don`t come out at night (or on a Saturday changeover day) and repair or put right any mishaps you may have had, but had NOT bothered to mention. 

That said, i bought our share in Lightning 4 1/2 years ago, and have no intention of selling it. It suits us perfectly with us only using a max of 3 out of 4 weeks in any one year, and sometimes only 2.  Yes it IS cheaper than hiring the same boat from one of the yards, but on occaisions, you have to pay out for major expenses, and other upgrades etc.  We had to replace Lightnings engine a while back, which saw each owner with an extra (large) bill, but now she is good for at least another 10 years or so, and this, plus other investments in upgrades etc ensures Lightning can keep a premium share price.  Every year, we agree at our AGM (2 weeks tomorrow) a capex list, and discuss what we believe to be the most important operational issues which need to be acted upon. These are usually mechanical items which get used heavily, bearing in mind that syndicate boats are the most used boats on the Broads. 

I will ALWAYS recommend syndicate ownership, especially if you are fully employed, with limited and logistically challenging holiday entitlement. As it is, Karen and i have 2 weeks a year on average aboard Lightning, then holiday elsewhere, as we`re both still in full time employment, with limited holidays, and living very near the south coast, long weekends on the broads are not feasable, so syndicate ownership was the best option for us.

If anybody would like to know more, or consider buying a share, i`m sure Alan (Ranworth Breeze), me, and any other syndicate owner would be more than happy to answer any questions, or if we`re on the Broads, and see eachother, show you aboard our respective boats?.

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One thing people HAVE`NT made mention of is that Syndicate ownership should definitely NOT be looked at as "a cheap form of hiring", it is`nt, it`s "SHARED OWNERSHIP" where the syndicate owners are JOINT owners with a responsibility to look after the boat, and respect likewise owners property. Unlike a hireboat, the fix it fairies don`t come out at night (or on a Saturday changeover day) and repair or put right any mishaps you may have had, but had NOT bothered to mention. 



Interestingly I view it as more of a cheaper form of hiring!

Yes I do get a say in what happens to the boat but the outlay is far lower than purchasing an equivalent boat but I only get to use it at set weeks of the year.

For me the risk and reward and far closer to hiring than full ownership.


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5 hours ago, Matt said:

 


Interestingly I view it as more of a cheaper form of hiring!

Yes I do get a say in what happens to the boat but the outlay is far lower than purchasing an equivalent boat but I only get to use it at set weeks of the year.

For me the risk and reward and far closer to hiring than full ownership.


Sent from the Norfolk Broads Network mobile app

 

Cheaper, yes Matt, undoubtedly by a mile assuming you'd be hiring a boat the same size. However with hiring you get perfect choice of what boat, from what base in what week you want. When I hire sometimes I'm solo, sometimes not and I can pick a boat that suits. I know I pay a premium for that in comparison to a syndicate but I also fix the cost when I book with no extra bills to worry about. All that said, I would never rule out switching to a syndicate in the future. For me, it would need the right combination of price, annual cost, boat style and week allocation system ( the lottery thing just doesn't cut it for me). 

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Cheaper, yes Matt, undoubtedly by a mile assuming you'd be hiring a boat the same size. However with hiring you get perfect choice of what boat, from what base in what week you want. When I hire sometimes I'm solo, sometimes not and I can pick a boat that suits. I know I pay a premium for that in comparison to a syndicate but I also fix the cost when I book with no extra bills to worry about. All that said, I would never rule out switching to a syndicate in the future. For me, it would need the right combination of price, annual cost, boat style and week allocation system ( the lottery thing just doesn't cut it for me). 


I get the perfect choice of boat now :-)

I have to be honest but the choice of starting base has never really bothered me. Having had at least 2 weeks afloat for the last 10 years we generally either spend the week north or south, rarely both. The days of crushing all day are long gone!

I would also say that extra costs are not particularly common. The winter costs do vary but never greatly, the ongoing running costs are a monthly standing order for us and might go up a couple of quid each year. We knew we needed a new engine so made additional payments for a couple of years and used monies we already had.

Currently £4,000 in the syndicate account so we can absorb most things if they occur. We put a new oven on a few weeks back I think it was £800 (I am sure someone will be along to tell me if I’m wrong!) and that was just paid out of the Syndicate account so no unexpected bill for owners.

There are many variations of the allocation system across different boats and I’m sure they all have their good and bad points. I think Lightening is moving to a priority system where owners move up and down the list (Perhaps a Lightening owner can expand?) but whatever system is in use some owners will have better weeks than others but hopefully over a period of time they even out.

The biggest drawback to Syndicate ownership and why I think it is more aligned with hiring is that you obviously cannot just use it when you fancy it! The weather looks lovely for a break from Monday but I can’t go and use Thunder as another owner is onboard and they might be surprised to see me onboard first thing in the morning!

Although ironically the allocated owners for the week starting today are not using her so the owners that were due to leave today are staying another week!




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Matt, it's good to know additional costs have been minimal in your experience. The people on board for an extra week have certainly benefitted well because I'm aware you only pay for diesel and pump out if you're on board for a 'spare week'. Therein lies an important point I think because perhaps to get the best from syndicate ownership you need to be able to be as flexible as you can be with when you're aboard and be able to commit extra time when the opportunity arises. 

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1 hour ago, Broads01 said:

Matt, it's good to know additional costs have been minimal in your experience. The people on board for an extra week have certainly benefitted well because I'm aware you only pay for diesel and pump out if you're on board for a 'spare week'. Therein lies an important point I think because perhaps to get the best from syndicate ownership you need to be able to be as flexible as you can be with when you're aboard and be able to commit extra time when the opportunity arises. 

Not to mention taking weeks that other owners cannot take - not just when you are already on board.  On MS weeks like that are put out to the rest of us on a first come first served basis.  For no extra charge except fuel/pumpout.  Effectively a minimum of four weeks a year, but could be quite a few more!

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Although "Time Share" has attracted bad press in certain areas it is a pity a really well financed, big player could not get involved. It would be great to be able to swap weeks with boats on other waterways and indeed in other countries. But I guess the costs involved would be too high.

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58 minutes ago, ChrisB said:

Although "Time Share" has attracted bad press in certain areas it is a pity a really well financed, big player could not get involved. It would be great to be able to swap weeks with boats on other waterways and indeed in other countries. But I guess the costs involved would be too high.

Hi Chris,

RCI have done this for years, we used to bank with them unused cottage weeks at Windermere and swap them for narrow boat holidays or holidays in other locations.

Regards

Alan

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Not to mention taking weeks that other owners cannot take - not just when you are already on board.  On MS weeks like that are put out to the rest of us on a first come first served basis.  For no extra charge except fuel/pumpout.  Effectively a minimum of four weeks a year, but could be quite a few more!


On Thunder we have moved from the first come first served to a priority order. Once you have used a spare week you drop to the bottom. Then if more than one owner wants the same week the one highest on the list takes it. So far seems to be working well.

I’m up to second in the list just waiting for that Spare August week!

One of the owners has probably more than doubled their allocation this year through the spare weeks- you know who you are........
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On 21/09/2018 at 21:56, Broads01 said:

Cheaper, yes Matt, undoubtedly by a mile assuming you'd be hiring a boat the same size. However with hiring you get perfect choice of what boat, from what base in what week you want. When I hire sometimes I'm solo, sometimes not and I can pick a boat that suits. I know I pay a premium for that in comparison to a syndicate but I also fix the cost when I book with no extra bills to worry about. All that said, I would never rule out switching to a syndicate in the future. For me, it would need the right combination of price, annual cost, boat style and week allocation system ( the lottery thing just doesn't cut it for me). 

Hi Simon,

We in the Lightning syndicate have our AGM in 2 weeks, and are introducing the "Rolling block" allocation system. It`s the system where you draw the same week number for each season, shall we say for example, week 1, which means for this year, you will have week 1 for Winter, Spring, Summer, and Autumn. Then for next year, you automatically jump 4 weeks to the 5th following week, so from week 1, you jump weeks 2, 3, 4, and 5 and have week 6 of each season., then the following jump 4, and so on. That means everybody will have an allocation every 12 or 13 weeks, depending on the half share allocation. The only down side will be after you have a late season week, you then go back to an early week, which means when you change from this years, to next years schedule, for one period, you only have 4 weeks between holidays, though this will only happen once every 3 years, and only between 2 particular weeks, and will be the same for every share holder.  I`m not 100% sure i`ve got this exactly right, but it`s pretty much as it will be, which is fairer for all members, and will allow all to plan holidays etc, or arrange swaps with relative ease.

On 22/09/2018 at 09:40, Matt said:

 


I get the perfect choice of boat now :-)

I have to be honest but the choice of starting base has never really bothered me. Having had at least 2 weeks afloat for the last 10 years we generally either spend the week north or south, rarely both. The days of crushing all day are long gone!

I would also say that extra costs are not particularly common. The winter costs do vary but never greatly, the ongoing running costs are a monthly standing order for us and might go up a couple of quid each year. We knew we needed a new engine so made additional payments for a couple of years and used monies we already had.

Currently £4,000 in the syndicate account so we can absorb most things if they occur. We put a new oven on a few weeks back I think it was £800 (I am sure someone will be along to tell me if I’m wrong!) and that was just paid out of the Syndicate account so no unexpected bill for owners.

There are many variations of the allocation system across different boats and I’m sure they all have their good and bad points. I think Lightening is moving to a priority system where owners move up and down the list (Perhaps a Lightening owner can expand?) but whatever system is in use some owners will have better weeks than others but hopefully over a period of time they even out.

The biggest drawback to Syndicate ownership and why I think it is more aligned with hiring is that you obviously cannot just use it when you fancy it! The weather looks lovely for a break from Monday but I can’t go and use Thunder as another owner is onboard and they might be surprised to see me onboard first thing in the morning!

Although ironically the allocated owners for the week starting today are not using her so the owners that were due to leave today are staying another week!




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Matt,

I`ve not heard of this priority system, and have never heard of being in use on Lightning, though i do think it`s a good idea.  I`l raise this with our Chairman a bit later, as we`re putting together our schedule for the AGM in 2 weeks. 

 

As i`ve said before, if anybody is interested in buying in to a syndicate, i can wholeheartedly recommend it, as it`s a great way to get into affordable boat ownership.  If anybody is interested in buying a share in Lightning, and would like to go on our waiting list (should there be one at the time) please pm me, and i will put you in contact with our chairman.

Regards and best wishe to all.   .................................. Neil.

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Hi all including Ranworth Breeze for your time and trouble explaining things re  Time Shares and the difference from the other thing that did give a bad publicity. I would like to thank all this participate in this topic. 

Andrew Cook

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44 minutes ago, Andrewcook said:

Hi all including Ranworth Breeze for your time and trouble explaining things re  Time Shares and the difference from the other thing that did give a bad publicity. I would like to thank all this participate in this topic. 

Andrew Cook

You are welcomed Andrew, it is good to see you posting again.

Regards

Alan

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We tried it, didn't work for us, petty issues can get blown out of all proportion.

I thought it would be good for us as we both work, and to a point it did. Decided to sell our shares (easier said than done) and buy our own boat. That was ten years ago and the restoration took 5 years and a lot of hard earned, we still don't get as much time as we would like as we still work to pay for it.

Boat owning or syndicate owner, both need compromises, we have tried both and know which we prefer.

On the positive front the cost per night is now coming down after 5 years afloat, I reckon about £500.00 a night !

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