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Breydon Rescue


JennyMorgan

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29 minutes ago, Wussername said:

Ranworth was there first stop.

They all got in with a wriggle and a squiggle. The BA ranger was there to help. HW staff as well. The children well behaved, polite, and a pleasure to welcome. The staff, attentive and caring. Long may this event be an annual event.

Hear-hear! School and sea-cadet trips have long been a feature of the Broads. I have a book written by 'Taffrail' about one such trip, aboard a boat called Zaroster, 1950's if I remember correctly. 

 

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These early and late season school and cadet parties have always been a very important part of a hire fleet's business. They are also the first Broads experience for thousands of youngsters who go on to become regular customers in later life. 

It is a very important part of the Broads adventure.

In Hearts Cruisers case, the Sea Cadets actually touched up the paintwork on the hulls and brought them back looking even better than before. I seem to remember the ones who did the most damage were the Church Army!

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15 hours ago, Smoggy said:

Just a shame that the draught makes spirit of bullsh*t so completely useless in grounding situations seeing as that is the most common issue on breydon.

So you approach as close as possible and row a towline across with a dinghy. Just like Richardsons always do on Barton Broad. 

It's what they call seamanship!

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I'm not sure that calling into question the "seamanship" of the BA's front line troops is either relevant or helpful, nor indeed referring to the Spirit of "bull***t/boredom"

I am informed that the Spirit of Breydon was at Thorpe at the time, and the only craft I've heard of which has the ability to be in two places at the same time is the Heart of Gold, but there was no really hot cup of tea available.

I understand that in the event of an emergency on the broads we are advised to call the coastguard, not the BA.

 

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11 hours ago, JennyMorgan said:

How it used to be during the seventies and eighties, and great fun it was too!

40/50 years ago a lot of things were great fun, not quite so much now as peace and tranquillity are more appealing to me these days. However, each to their own. 

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1 hour ago, MauriceMynah said:

I'm not sure that calling into question the "seamanship" of the BA's front line troops is either relevant or helpful, nor indeed referring to the Spirit of "bull***t/boredom"

I am informed that the Spirit of Breydon was at Thorpe at the time, and the only craft I've heard of which has the ability to be in two places at the same time is the Heart of Gold, but there was no really hot cup of tea available.

I understand that in the event of an emergency on the broads we are advised to call the coastguard, not the BA.

 

John, let's not forget that much of the official justification for the enormous cost of the SOB was the safety aspect of the vessel and that she is, or was at least intended to be a declared rescue facility. Again and again she has proven herself unsuited for that task. However, what actually is her task, the very reason for her existence? Surely it's not just to parade backwards and forwards on Breydon? The simple addition of a small RIB would make her useful but that hasn't happened. Correct me if I'm wrong but if I understand correctly all the patrol vessels, and that presumably includes the SOB, have had their tow posts removed. Personally I believe that we have been mislead. The Broads Bill was much lauded in Parliament as being a 'safety Bill'. The Broads Bill & the subsequent Broads Act allowed for the takeover of Breydon Water by the Authority, once again 'safety' was a large part of the official justification.

Other than bellowing instructions, like slow down, at boaters on Breydon, what safety facility does the SOB offer if she is not going to be actively involved in rescuing people?  Granted that she can't go into shallow water situations, neither can the bigger RNLI boats, but then they have at their disposal kayaks and beach boats. Vaughan has suggested the obvious addition of a dinghy to the SOB's equipment. I'm not suggesting that BA crews have immersion suits and that they take over from the RNLI but there are instances, such as in this case, when a boat is only just aground and easily accessible by a dinghy.  Now, I'm not adverse to the RNLI turning out and rescuing people in distress, after all that is the reason for their existence, but I do object when I'm lied to.  My feeling is that the SOB was and is an unnecessary extravagance and that we were mislead, don't forget that I went to Parliament in regard to the Broads (safety) Act.

So the SOB was at Thorpe, why? She was purchased as a patrol boat for Breydon. 

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2 hours ago, Vaughan said:

These early and late season school and cadet parties have always been a very important part of a hire fleet's business. They are also the first Broads experience for thousands of youngsters who go on to become regular customers in later life. 

It is a very important part of the Broads adventure.

I've said it many times, but it's the same with the stag boats as well. 

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Peter, I am not denying what you say, but the thread was about a successful rescue of some people on Breydon water . It was not headlined "Yet another occasion when unsuitable (and very expensive) boat fails to attend." I'm sorry to point this out but you do seem to use every opportunity to attack the BA's management. Yes, there are occasions when that is an appropriate response, but do you feel this was one of them? Personally, I do not.

The BA owns "Spirit of Breydon". That isn't likely to change any day soon irrespective  of observations made here. The money is spent! Some will be recouped when she is sold, but until that day, it's a done job. Constant sniping at it will achieve nothing.

I can no longer imagine anything that BA management can do or be responsible for, that would receive your approval (resignations excepted) and I find this a sorry state of affairs as I'm sure they are actually responsible for much that is good

25 minutes ago, JennyMorgan said:

Correct me if I'm wrong but if I understand correctly all the patrol vessels, and that presumably includes the SOB, have had their tow posts removed.

I don't know if that is correct, but then again it seems neither do you!  :default_smile:

The BA is not one of the emergency services, nor should they be viewed or treated as such.

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How about the lads week then, generally we were plenty oiled up through the whole week, but then we did not get to the point where there was nobody left in a fit state to skipper the boat, and were generally pretty quiet when returning from the pubs late (They must have been - they didnt wake me up as I generally returned earlier) I am sure we brought good trade into the pubs we visited.

we left the yard with no complaints, but we did leave a snagging list of minor non issues (such as tired springs on door catches etc)

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1 hour ago, MauriceMynah said:

Peter, I am not denying what you say, but the thread was about a successful rescue of some people on Breydon water . It was not headlined "Yet another occasion when unsuitable (and very expensive) boat fails to attend." I'm sorry to point this out but you do seem to use every opportunity to attack the BA's management. Yes, there are occasions when that is an appropriate response, but do you feel this was one of them? Personally, I do not.

The BA owns "Spirit of Breydon". That isn't likely to change any day soon irrespective  of observations made here. The money is spent! Some will be recouped when she is sold, but until that day, it's a done job. Constant sniping at it will achieve nothing.

I can no longer imagine anything that BA management can do or be responsible for, that would receive your approval (resignations excepted) and I find this a sorry state of affairs as I'm sure they are actually responsible for much that is good

I don't know if that is correct, but then again it seems neither do you!  :default_smile:

The BA is not one of the emergency services, nor should they be viewed or treated as such.

You are Marshman and I claim my £5 ! Never seen the two of you together :default_norty:

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24 minutes ago, Poppy said:

You are Marshman and I claim my £5 ! Never seen the two of you together :default_norty:

Even adding the two of them together probably would not equal how old Lobby Lud would be.  

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And there was me, in all innocence, just about to post what MM has posted!!!!

I do not believe that the BA staff are qualified to be a "rescue" service! As has been pointed out the correct procedure to follow is to contact the Coastguard and they can then make the decision to allocate what services are available and which are best suited to the occasion. I suspect that the Coastguard is well aware that the persons most suited to the rescue, and those who could attend most quickly were the lads down the river. They responded accordingly and did the job - whats the issue?

Equally I can think of several reasons why SOB may have been at the Dockyard - how can you expect it to be everywhere?

What I certainly do not want to see coming from the Nav budget is more staff employed to enable SOB to patrol more often - perhaps he would like to see that but I suspect that if SOB was seen more often, he would wish to know why and who was paying!

And MM is right too about the cost - I don't know the final figures but neither was it cheap to mould a new launch when they did, nor design and make a new plug for the top following necessary changes in the accomodation. Virtual one offs are always expensive and on balance if I had to patrol Breydon for 6/7 hours, I think I would feel more comfortable in SOB than in a standard river patrol boat.

Finally everyone knows that the BA do do a great deal that is right which is why I post as I do - and why the anti BA brigade make so little headway in their campaign of total negativity about everything. Everyone is very bored with the constant sniping and I am only "heard" so often, just to put the counter argument for the high percentage of total Broads users who see far less wrong than some would indicate.

 

 

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4 hours ago, JennyMorgan said:

Fair comment, Old Gregg, but the young crews don't generally get bladdered!

Their headmasters do though! I remember one very well, from my boyhood. A school party would arrive about 1200 by coach and start getting installed on the boats. Meantime the headmaster was invited by my father to have a drink on the gunboat. A couple of hours later the deputy head would arrive to announce that the fleet was ready. Whereupon the headmaster was assisted on board by a couple of the senior boys and the convoy would depart.

This was back in the 50s, I should add!

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7 hours ago, MauriceMynah said:

'm not sure that calling into question the "seamanship" of the BA's front line troops is either relevant or helpful,

I did not. I was speaking generally about how we on the boatyards have been getting hire boats off the mud ever since long before the War.

7 hours ago, MauriceMynah said:

I understand that in the event of an emergency on the broads we are advised to call the coastguard, not the BA.

Hmmm. Not in "my day". Jack Hunt from Reedham would have been the first on the scene.

 

5 hours ago, MauriceMynah said:

Peter, I am not denying what you say, but the thread was about a successful

rescue of some people on Breydon water .

But was it a "successful rescue" or a simple grounding, which could have been dealt with in the time-honoured fashion?

5 hours ago, MauriceMynah said:

The BA is not one of the emergency services, nor should they be viewed or treated as such.

In which case, their role has changed. The inspectors' launches, in the 70s, had not only a Samson Post for towing but they had a powerful salvage pump connected to the engine crankshaft by a "dog clutch". So they could actually pump a sinking boat out at the same time as towing it! They were patrolling all the while and it was natural that they were the first on the scene of these sort of common incidents.

I call grounding an "incident". It doesn't have to be immediately classified as an "emergency". I have already expressed my great appreciation for the volunteer lifeboat services but how are they going to get a 44ft motor cruiser off the Breydon mud with an outboard RIB? The SOB, however, is easily powerful enough for the job, should she be "tasked" to do so.

Excuse me, but yet again I seem to be reduced to the ranks of the "BA bashers" simply because I am offering my experience of the best and most practical way to deal with routine incidents, such as the subject of this thread.

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1 hour ago, Vaughan said:
9 hours ago, MauriceMynah said:

I understand that in the event of an emergency on the broads we are advised to call the coastguard, not the BA.

Hmmm. Not in "my day". Jack Hunt from Reedham would have been the first on the scene.

Sorry Vaughan, I stand by that comment.

 

1 hour ago, Vaughan said:
  6 hours ago, MauriceMynah said:

The BA is not one of the emergency services, nor should they be viewed or treated as such.

I stand by that one too.

 

1 hour ago, Vaughan said:
6 hours ago, MauriceMynah said:

Peter, I am not denying what you say, but the thread was about a successful

rescue of some people on Breydon water .

But was it a "successful rescue" or a simple grounding, which could have been dealt with in the time-honoured fashion?

According to the title of this thread and the headlines in the EDP, yes, it was a rescue... and successful!

 

1 hour ago, Vaughan said:

Excuse me, but yet again I seem to be reduced to the ranks of the "BA bashers" simply because I am offering my experience of the best and most practical way to deal with routine incidents, such as the subject of this thread.

I thought the post you quoted there was fairly clearly aimed at P.W. (J.M.).

 

1 hour ago, Vaughan said:
9 hours ago, MauriceMynah said:

'm not sure that calling into question the "seamanship" of the BA's front line troops is either relevant or helpful,

I did not. I was speaking generally about how we on the boatyards have been getting hire boats off the mud ever since long before the War.

Whilst your comment doesn't directly say you question their seamanship, taken along with Smoggy's quote, that is the impression I inferred.... though that was just my opinion. 

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I found this via google:
"It will operate in all weathers, can arrive quicker at emergencies and is far more capable of taking in tow the increasingly larger hire vessels that use Breydon." -   https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-21783000

I thought that the coastguard call upon the services of those can be on scene fastest (which if the SOB is patrolling then indeed they should be first call) then those with the facilities needed, so again if the boats just grounded, it should be instantly be able to tow off the mud using it's towing bar thingy and either transfer aboard for a fast run to shore to seek medical aid.. So seems to me that the BA thought it would be used without the need for other agencies.. Shame it clearly isn't and the RNLI are being called upon... perhaps indicates that the SOB is the wrong boat and the same setup as those vessels assisting would be best...like an inshore RIB? 

I also love the bit where it states that it can operate 60 miles offshore.. how many of Richo's finest are heading over to Rotterdam then? 

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When the RNLI are called out to an incident on Breydon or wherever come to that is there a charge made to the individual concerned ? To the boatyard concerned. Or to a third party concerned, or a charge made against the Broads Authority. Or is the cost involved, and everything comes with a price, funded by charity.

If the Broads Authority were to take responsibility, perhaps involving several man hours, there will be a cost.  Which they just might just decide would be better absorbed by others.

Andrew

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6 minutes ago, Wussername said:

If the Broads Authority were to take responsibility, perhaps involving several man hours, there will be a cost.  Which they just might just decide would be better absorbed by others.

But they did invest £115k on the SOB as a means to make Breydon safer (as part of a £300k investment).

When we unfortunately used the RNLI services down here, they didn't ask for any return although we did have a annual donation and I subsequently joined offshore and dedicated via the station who came out to us. 

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A rib with a pair of 80hp stationed at the BA station at GY could get across Breydon in less than 5 mins ( I can do it in 6 at cruising speed). Go into shallowish  water and pull a tractor out of mud!!! 

Maybe not that much cheaper, but a lot more useful.  

I do agree though. Running aground on still water is not really a mayday call. 

Sure take the kid feeling sick off (probably anxiety) but the rest could stay onboard. 

Having said that, was the engine/rudder damaged? Did they have enough battery juice for the heating?  In the world of H&S I'm sure legal liability kicks in more than learning a lesson.

it is sad that the skipper of the second boat didn't twig he was putting his own vessel in danger following the one with the problem. You have to assume they we're in communication. 

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I have personally seen Spirit of Breydon come to the rescue of a hireboat who had suffered an engine bay fire. They went alongside for the tow.

Of course when it’s there and efficiently dealing with these types of incidents I would imagine they very rarely become newsworthy.


Sent from the Norfolk Broads Network mobile app

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