Is The Tipping Point Approaching?

[Meantime]

This is sort of connected to The Viaduct Moorings thread, but I decided to start a new thread rather than hijack that one. In 2000 Malcolm Gladwell wrote a book called "The Tipping Point: How Little Things Can Make a Big Difference" Gladwell defines a "Tipping Point" as "the moment of critical mass, the threshold, the boiling point. In the book he explores how sometimes seemingly unconnected small changes can build up into an often irreversible larger change.

Each year of boat ownership I take into account the cost of ownership versus the use and enjoyment of ownership and whether it represents good use of my money. A part of that equation has to be the enjoyment of The Broads themselves and the facilities I enjoy. Each year the decision to continue boating is getting harder mainly through things that are beyond my control. I sense that my own personal tipping point is approaching, the day I put the boat in the hands of a broker and sell it and look to spend my leisure time and money elsewhere.

In reaching this conclusion I take into account some of the things that I appreciated or enjoyed about The Broads, that are no longer there, or have changed in my opinion for the worse. The loss of half of The Viaduct moorings is one such example that I would add to the following list in no particular order.

The landlord of The Berney Arms making it untenable for John and Tracy to remain as tenants, and now the seemingly permanent closure of the pub.

The closure of the Burgh Castle moorings.

The removal of the majority of the rubbish facilities.

The closure of The Boundary Farm moorings.

The introduction of the double mooring policy.

The more or less permanent abuse of The Whitlingham Country Park and Commissioners Cut moorings by a sector of the boating community.

The recent change of ownership of The Locks Inn. The jury is obviously out on that one as it may turn out to be an improvement, but personally the place faded for me the moment it stopped selling Green Jack beers.

Nigel and Tracy leaving The Waveney Inn where many a good night was spent in their company and the circle of regulars that frequented it at the time. 

The Chet and The New Cut gradually becoming more and more hazardous to navigate. I actually won't solo cruise The Chet at busy times anymore for fear of meeting larger boats at the twisty section at the start of The Chet. A couple of times in the past with company on board I have given way to other large boats and then found myself pinned to the outside of the bend by the wind and tide and with help on board it is fairly easy to get going again. But now with the hazards I wouldn't risk it solo.

The loss of The Wherrymans Way footpath along The Chet.

One of the best Indian restaurants in the area, The Dilraj changing hands a few years back and it never coming anywhere close to its previous best.

The closure of The Andamen Orchid thai in Coltishall.

Several years of above inflation toll rises.

The general overall increase in the size of hire boats meaning more, not less moorings are needed overall.

Stalham staithe pretty much constantly occupied by the same few regular boats

Sutton staithe moorings by the water hose and electric posts again pretty much occupied by the same few regular boats.

The weekend Brundall army at Bramerton Common.

And now added to that list the loss of half of The Viaduct moorings.

This is my personal list and as you can see from above there is no one body, agency or person to blame, but as Malcolm Gladwell makes the point it is these seemingly unconnected little individual things that add up to make the big difference. In my case I find few positives being added to my other list to replace the losses. So my personal tipping point draws ever closer.

I wonder how many other people are nearing or at their own personal tipping point? If a critical mass of people reach the same conclusions over say the next five years there could well be a dramatic irreversible decline in boat ownership on The Broads. Is the tipping point approaching for The Broads as a whole? Is there anything The BA can do about that, or is it already too late? Are they even aware there may be hundreds of other people feeling the same as me, or maybe it is just me?

Edited to add a couple of the bigger ones!

Lack of dredging having run aground last weekend.

Decreasing opportunities to get my boat through Potter Bridge.

[BroadAmbition]

That's a good post you did there, with the potential of some fine debating.  My two penneth for what it's worth:-

 

The landlord of The Berney Arms making it untenable for John and Tracy to remain as tenants, and now the seemingly permanent closure of the pub.    Agreed

The closure of the Burgh Castle moorings.   Agreed

The removal of the majority of the rubbish facilities.   Agreed

The closure of The Boundary Farm moorings.   Agreed

The introduction of the double mooring policy.   Not sure on this one, I quite like the idea of double mooring and 'Budging up'

The more or less permanent abuse of The Whitlingham Country Park and Commissioners Cut moorings by a sector of the boating community.   Agreed

The recent change of ownership of The Locks Inn. The jury is obviously out on that one as it may turn out to be an improvement, but personally the place faded for me the moment it stopped selling Green Jack beers.  Impartial

Nigel and Tracy leaving The Waveney Inn where many a good night was spent in their company and the circle of regulars that frequented it at the time.     Impartial

The Chet and The New Cut gradually becoming more and more hazardous to navigate. I actually won't solo cruise The Chet at busy times anymore for fear of meeting larger boats at the twisty section at the start of The Chet. A couple of times in the past with company on board I have given way to other large boats and then found myself pinned to the outside of the bend by the wind and tide and with help on board it is fairly easy to get going again. But now with the hazards I wouldn't risk it solo.    Agreed on your personal points, for me onboard 'B.A' it's not much of an issue

The loss of The Wherrymans Way footpath along The Chet.  Impartial

One of the best Indian restaurants in the area, The Dilraj changing hands a few years back and it never coming anywhere close to its previous best.    Try as I have I just cannot get on with Indian cuisine

The closure of The Andamen Orchid thai in Coltishall.  Impartial

Several years of above inflation toll rises.    Agreed very strongly

The general overall increase in the size of hire boats meaning more, not less moorings are needed overall.  Agreed

Stalham staithe pretty much constantly occupied by the same few regular boats   Agreed

Sutton staithe moorings by the water hose and electric posts again pretty much occupied by the same few regular boats.  Agreed

The weekend Brundall army at Bramerton Common.   Agreed

And now added to that list the loss of half of The Viaduct moorings.  Agreed

 

On top of that the attitude of a small minority of just being plain selfish.  Mooring up on yacht dismasting only areas.   Ludham bridge - Craft moored up at the water point area when not getting water.  Fishing from moving boats, a particular pet hate of mine.  The moorings at GYA being shut over the 'Closed' season, in fact the 'Closed season' itsen - there isn't one!  The loss of the Ba information centre at Ranworth staithe, in particular the loss of a mooring attendant, I so miss John Lane.  Why do small day boats use the quay heading when there is room for them in the cut? that one really p1sses me right orf.  Windpumps not getting restored or being left to decompose even further. The Ba recently purchased Oby mill having done nothing to assist the previous private owner and have since done nothing with it whatsoever.   The lack of any decent moorings for visiting private craft (And some hire boats) in Wroxham below the bridge.

My 'Tipping point' is for me a way off yet though

Griff

[MauriceMynah]

The improvements at the Thurne Lion.

The improvements at the White Horse Neatishead.

The water points at Salhouse,

The Water points at Sutton Staithe.

The opening of the Mermaid's Slipper,

The re-opening of the Broadshaven (norada)

The Dredging at Hickling,

Yes, I agree, the place is going down the pan !!!

I'm a very long way off my "tipping point" but I do take your point ECIPA.

We all make personal choices, and very different they are too, but might I play devils advocate for a moment.

The extra length of the hire craft is more than compensated for by the reduction in their numbers. Yes there are more private boats than there used to be, but these are not in permanent use, and many of them are shorter than 25'. I think that although we like to have many 24hr moorings, we need to balance that wish against their usage.

Hotspots are crowded in the height of the season, but then again, they always were.

We will always find things to gripe about, and human nature being what it is, we tend to take improvements for granted. Some look back with rose tinted glasses where others feel that old is bad, new is good. Who is right? Neither! It's just change!.

Finally I would add, Great post ECIPA, a real starting point for debate..

 

[batrabill]

It would be easy to write a list as long of things that have improved over the last few years. 

 

 

Ah...MM beat me to it

Edited November 4, 2018 by batrabill

[SwanR]

Interesting topic.

From a hirer’s point of view it’s a shame to have lost some of the hire yards on the south, as has also been a topic of debate on another thread. We’ve booked a boat for March for two reasons. Firstly because it keeps the cost down. Secondly because we’re staying north and even June was far busier than we like the last time we did it!

So in terms of our tipping point that’s it. Hire charges have definitely been going up over the last few years and the northern side is too busy in the main season. 

[JennyMorgan]

Nigel & Tracy at WRC, I was sad to see them go. Nigel could be rude and I know that he upset a few but for all that I miss him and his sometimes obscure humour. All that said I rather like the Waveney Inn as it's become. My wife and I had some good meals there during the summer. All things considered I now welcome the changes.

The Locks, we shall have to wait and see. I have now heard two different stories, not sure what to believe. I too miss Green Jack and I don't doubt that there will be other changes as well. I doubt that it will be as it was though, Colin will be missed.

Oulton Broad is the one that worries me. The loss of the Spar Shop is already being felt and with a rent of a thousand a week I don't see other businesses flocking to take it on. I have a premonition of further loses during the coming winter. Mind you, on the bright side the village has some excellent boozers. We also have the Carlton Marshes nature reserve and that looks very, very promising and that could prove to be a god send for the B&B trade. It's not all doom and gloom!

[dnks34]

Many of the things on Eastcoasts list led us to the same conclusion, we are no longer boat owners and will spend our leisure time (and money) elsewhere.....probably with our Allies across the Atlantic. 

We are Broadland residents so we still benefit from the ambience and hostelries etc but thankfully have no need to deal any further with the BA.  (Who are amongst the dwindling facilities more or less solely responsible for the decision to sell up!)  

But it isnt going to stop me keeping my beady eye on their antics and voicing my opinion! 

[YnysMon]

Picking up on Griff’s comment about people fishing from boats...last month we were (briefly) behind a largish NDB boat going down the Bure on the stretch toward Horning. We thought they had probably just picked up the boat and there was a guy fishing off the back platform.

Luckily they weren’t going that fast, and we were able to overtake them, as I was getting irritated.  As we started to pull out to overtake the guy’s fishing line got snagged and snapped. 

Hope he learnt his lesson!

[Meantime]

So Batrabill said it would be easy to write a list as long of things that have improved! Yes some things have improved but on my personal list, the balance is still swinging one way. However to try and add balance to my first post here is some of the things I put on the positive or improvement side. This is not a full list of all the things I like, but things that have changed for the better. Something that is as good as its always been won't appear on the list, in the same way as my earlier list didn't contain items that I've always viewed as a negative or bad. My lists are highlighting the changes good or bad and to be fair, should be viewed against the back drop of when I first discovered The Broads which is 17 years ago. So I'm personally talking about changes in the last 17 years.

The opening of The Polkeys Mill moorings.

The extension of the moorings at Somerleyton.

Not everyone's cup of tea, but the refurbishment of The Waters Edge some five or so years back.

I agree with Maurice The White Horse at Neatishead and The Lion at Thurne.

The BA purchase of the moorings at Acle, although I fear the others plans for that site could soon out weight the benefit especially if the visitor centre leads to a loss of any of the moorings.

The Smokehouse at Hoveton and Wroxham station.

The opening of the moorings at the entrance to The Chet by Hardley cross.

The Bure Valley fish restaurant Horning.

The Red Lion at Coltishall

And finally to add to my earlier list, the closure of The Hermitage and it's moorings at Acle and TaPs restaurant at Horning.

A few people have said their tipping point is still a way off, but I would ask this, have the changes you've witnessed made it move closer or further away than you would have envisaged a number of years ago. In the past would the thought of falling out of love with Broads boating never even have figured, or is it now starting to be a possibility even if it is still some way off?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not putting my boat in the hands of a broker next year, but I do wonder how many other people feel like me, and whether the critical point not just for me, but a whole group of people is approaching and whether there is time for changes to be made that could stop that.

 

[marshman]

Griff - the BA has not purchased Oby Mill as far as I am aware but the mill is likely to get a grant from the Mills and Marshes initiative.

However the initiative so called is nothing about restoration of these mills, merely about ensuring these structures do not deteriorate further, or so I believe. The total funds of £4m for the whole project are being spread pretty thinly, especially when you look at the projects, and in some cases the money will only go as far as making them watertight to make sure the  structures remain.

I believe that one or two are going to get a bit more done to them - hopefully one will be Clayrack Mill above How Hill and the other is on the Halvergate Marshes somewhere - Highs Mill rings a bell somewhere. To put the costs of mill (or rather pump) restoration into context, the first stage of the restoration of the one at Horsey has cost £260k with more to go!!

So don't get your hopes up too high!!

 

[vanessan]

A great topic for debate.

ECIPA has listed all the things that I would include on my list although the change of pub ownership is less bothersome to me personally. The real tipping for me will be mobility and I suspect that will probably be within the next 5 years or so. With that in mind, I can just about live with the problems of dwindling moorings, stag boats, lack of waste facilities etc. However, I wonder what someone fairly new to boat ownership thinks though. Someone who has hired and now purchased and still has many years of boat ownership ahead of them. They are the ones who these things will matter more to and I hope we will hear from them. Also, those who have hired since the year dot. I would imagine that each year has produced some negative issue although the positives may still outweigh the negatives for them. If I was younger and fitter, and likely to carry on boating for many years, my main worry would definitely be the disappearance of decent moorings and the fact that there are so many big boats now being built, the remaining moorings will be totally insufficient.

[JennyMorgan]

I am fortunate in living here, not having to travel far and having my own mooring, but if I didn't then the ever increasing costs of moorings would be my probable tipping point. 

[16E]

I've not posted on here for a long time but do check the site out from time to time.

We were on the Broads from 1999 to 2016 firstly at Hoveton and then at Stalham.  we also had our flat in Stalham from 2009 to 2016.

We started as 'intrepid' all weather/all year boaters, but having a boat in a cosy shed and a nice boat turned into day-boaters (John Williams told us this would happen).

As you can gather from the dates Norfolk lost its magic in 2016.  The trip from South Yorkshire became a drag, the flat and boat became a worry, is the roof OK, has she sunk etc so we sold up and left.  We miss very little, we can still visit if we want, but will choose when the north-wind is not blowing.

It is amazing how far in England you can drive in 3 or 4 hours so we now explore Northumberland,  Cumbria, Portsmouth and Somerset.  You can buy lots of hotel accomodation with the tolls, mooring fees, maintenance rates, ground rent, electricity etc. with the money you no longer fork out.

I wish you all enjoyment at your own level.

[marshman]

I accept everything everyone says but still my idea of heaven is just to sit on the back deck in, say, Black Horse Broad and soak it all up.

On and off I have been around the Broads for well over 60 plus years and I doubt I will ever tire of them.

The boat is getting harder to sort every year but probably have a year or so left?

Until then I will continue as before - the changes have come and gone, of course it is different but the appeal will not fade until I do!!

What is funny is all the things people moan about, particularly the busy bit - you should have seen it in the early 70's! We expect a lot for our buck and the landscape continues to change (the trees! ) but it still holds for me, a special and unmatched appeal.

[MauriceMynah]

I could only "like" that post once MM. More's the pity !

My tipping point will come when hell freezes over.

[JennyMorgan]

6 minutes ago, marshman said:

I accept everything everyone says but still my idea of heaven is just to sit on the back deck in, say, Black Horse Broad and soak it all up.

On and off I have been around the Broads for well over 60 plus years and I doubt I will ever tire of them.

The boat is getting harder to sort every year but probably have a year or so left?

Until then I will continue as before - the changes have come and gone, of course it is different but the appeal will not fade until I do!!

What is funny is all the things people moan about, particularly the busy bit - you should have seen it in the early 70's! We expect a lot for our buck and the landscape continues to change (the trees! ) but it still holds for me, a special and unmatched appeal.

Nicely put, young man! 

The early 70's, when double and even treble moorings were mandatory, and often great fun!

[vanessan]

4 minutes ago, marshman said:

the appeal will not fade until I do!!

Hear hear marshman, I think it’s the same for many. When I can no longer clamber on and off my boat, then I will probably think about a riverside property of some description. Maybe to own, maybe to hire. Whichever, I will be able to watch all the boats searching for the missing moorings or waste facilities. 

[JennyMorgan]

4 minutes ago, MauriceMynah said:

I could only "like" that post once MM. More's the pity !

My tipping point will come when hell freezes over.

I'm told that we are in for a really rough, tough ol' winter this year. Must be right, holly berries were early this year.

Best get it all in for Christmas AND Easter!

[Lulu]

Ive been finding this topic all rather depressing!  

Thankfully I just enjoy being on the water, well away from pubs.   I dont drink and pubs have no appeal to me whatsoever. We are new boat owners and just to get away from work and manic homelife by sitting on our boat watching the world go by on the water is enough for me.  It has totally changed our lives for the better. 

Our running costs for a year are less than one or two weeks abroad for our family. We have the freedom to have constant mini breaks. Ive lost count of the days we have spent on our boat over the year and loved every minute of it.   

 

 

[Matt]

Brilliant thread!

We were fortunate enough to buy into a syndicate boat about 8 years ago and have had at least 2 weeks afloat each year since.

I reckon Thunder currently costs us about £850 a year for those 2 weeks.

If we didn’t have the share I doubt we would often holiday afloat as the school holidays are pricey.

My biggest frustration is the increasing in tolls over the last few years for which the return on the things that matter to us have dwindled.

For the last few times afloat we have spent very little in the local pubs and restaurants, choosing instead to spend that money away from the Broads in other holidays.

Next August we have Return Easy Jet flights for 4 to Lanzarote for £750, Air BnB for £700 for the week and car hire for £90.

The tipping point will be when the £850 buys somewhere else. I imagine that will be once we don’t need to go in the school holidays.


Sent from the Norfolk Broads Network mobile app

[Chelsea14Ian]

I agree and disagree,Our boat does not have 240.I take your point some boats seem to hog the charging points.Our boat is 29 foot we head for Loddon/Chedgrave at least four times a year.Graham looks after our boat.We both enjoy going there.In fact was there last week .I hope all turns out well at the Locks and Berney Arms. I have posted many times about the pub.If I was ten years younger I believe  I could make the pub work,we nearly always would stop there overnight on our first day of our holiday.For me it's very sad that it's not running.For me hopefully a long way off that we stop boating.

[Paul]

We love visiting Norfolk, but in recent years it has been land based, or southern rivers. The "tipping point", at least as far as the Northern Rivers are concerned came for us a few years ago. 

Our last Northern Hire was three years ago, Contessa from Richardsons. I cannot fault the service from Richardson's or the boat. Both were admirable but it struck home to us during that holiday, to me especially, that nostalgia rather than reality had become the main reason for returning. 

I can list around ten favourite moorings or stopovers on the Northern Rivers and during the week afloat we looked to visit all of them. Sadly most of them were either unavailable due to long term stayers or spoilt by running engines. 

Our favourite wild mooring on the river ant was full on each of the four ocasions we passed by the same boat with arounf ten or a dozen fishing lines out.

Stalham Staithe was embargoes by two boats which looked like liveaboards on our two attempted visits.

Sutton Staithe was similar, we found mooring away from the staithe but moved off when a fight broke out on the staithe.

On two attempted visits to Wroxham we were unable to find moorings at either Barnes or Faircraft, despite it being midweek and not changeover days as both yards were full of their own boats not on hire.

We did find our favourite mooring at Panneygate staithe availableand settled down for a quiet night onboard only for several anglers to arrive at dusk, set up alongside us and proceed to talk in loud voices late into the night with the foulest language I'd heard in years. Not good when you have a young child on board. 

Likewise we got onto Neatished with only one other boat on the mooring, quiet night take two? No. about half an hour after dark another hire boat came in and moored half way down the dyke, the lady on board being most apologetic for their late arrival. They had been moored at Gay's when a pair of boats with stag crews arrived, so they moved on in search of a "quiet evening". They proceeded to destroy everyone's quiet evening by running their engine until well after 11pm and again from 06:00 the next morning. I think we'd have done better at Gay's with the stag crews.

I'm not a great one for pubs nowadays, I'm more interested in a luchtime stop now than an all night session but we did end up at the excellent Acle Bridge Inn two nights, just to find a decent mooring.

We'd pretty much worked out by the middle of the week that in future we would stick to the southern rivers or other waterways. 

[Ray]

1 hour ago, Lulu said:

Ive been finding this topic all rather depressing!  

Thankfully I just enjoy being on the water, well away from pubs.   I dont drink and pubs have no appeal to me whatsoever. We are new boat owners and just to get away from work and manic homelife by sitting on our boat watching the world go by on the water is enough for me.  It has totally changed our lives for the better. 

Our running costs for a year are less than one or two weeks abroad for our family. We have the freedom to have constant mini breaks. Ive lost count of the days we have spent on our boat over the year and loved every minute of it.   

 

 

Well said, we are new boat owners too and although in my case I do enjoy the odd tipple there is nothing better than sitting on your own boat in a wild mooring with a small glass of something (this includes mugs of tea/coffee etc.) drinking in the sheer beauty of it all. Especially as the sun goes down, the water settles and the wildlife gives you a display both unique and personal!

I'm with MM, but even when he'll starts to freeze over I'll buy a better heater and pile an extra couple of duvets on the bunk for the first season or two! 

[coolcat]

It's our third year of boat ownership and also our third boat (don't ask) and I agree that its all a little manic in the silly season but we have many months of boating in the quieter times to kick back and enjoy.

We haven't been around long enough on the Broads to see some of the changes that are being spoken about on here. On the whole though we find that what is on offer is fantastic and I hope we have many more years afloat on the Broads

I still think a drive through boat cleaning service like our Eastern European friends do for cars would be a bonus though

[Lulu]

25 minutes ago, coolcat said:

It's our third year of boat ownership and also our third boat (don't ask)

We are likely to be three boats in just over a year  so dont feel awkward Coolcat!