Is The Tipping Point Approaching?

[Meantime]

32 minutes ago, vanessan said:

I think that is the Thai street food van that used to be on the little industrial estate in Hoveton, opposite the Doctor’s surgeries and health centre on the Stalham - Hoveton main road. It is closed now I believe but maybe this is its new location. 

Having done some more research I think someone has marked the wrong place. There is no pub in that location. I think it is at The Rose and Crown in Frettenham which is North of Norwich.

[vanessan]

6 minutes ago, EastCoastIPA said:

Having done some more research I think someone has marked the wrong place. There is no pub in that location. I think it is at The Rose and Crown in Frettenham which is North of Norwich.

You can google Thai street food and that comes up as the business now being in Frettenham. Certainly looks to me like a wrong marker on the map! 

[AdnamsGirl]

A few years ago I was informed by a Barton Turf historian that the sign is indeed directional, pointing to Pennygate in one direction and Barton Turf Staithe in the other, after I had made the (seemingly wrong) assumption that it was Pennygate Staithe whilst captioning a photo.

 

Carol

[vanessan]

6 minutes ago, AdnamsGirl said:

A few years ago I was informed by a Barton Turf historian that the sign is indeed directional, pointing to Pennygate in one direction and Barton Turf Staithe in the other, after I had made the (seemingly wrong) assumption that it was Pennygate Staithe whilst captioning a photo.

 

Carol

Well, I guess a historian would know! Thank you for that information.

[Paul]

The sign on the moorings said Pennygate Staithe until the BA replaced it a few years ago. Broadsnet still refer to it as Pennygate Staithe. Sadly all my historic maps are in storage with my books apart from my 1883 OS which simply marks it as Sta.

It's always been Pennygate Staithe to us.

[YnysMon]

I’ve seen it referred to commonly as Pennygate Staithe too.

[Vaughan]

1 hour ago, Paul said:

It's always been Pennygate Staithe to us.

Me too.

I am not a historian but I grew up with lots of friends in the Stalham area and it was always called Pennygate Staithe. There are one or two places around the rivers whose name has changed through common usage. How about Candle Dyke? I have always known it as Kendal Dyke, although I don't know the history behind the name. Anyone think of any more?

How about Devil's Reach, well known to the old wherrymen?

[Paul]

13 minutes ago, Vaughan said:

How about Candle Dyke? I have always known it as Kendal Dyke,

Ditto that

I'll take local knowledge anyday.

[Paul]

It's a bit like the Harbour at Seahouses up in Northumberland, which everyone calls Seahouses Harbour, but it is not. It is actually North Sunderland Harbour. The name Seahouses originally referred to the houses that grew up around the smokeries and eventually the town that grew from them.

[vanessan]

I’ll bet there are many places across the country known by special names by the locals. We have a few round our way too. I have found this chat about Barton Turf/Pennygate staithe very interesting. Whatever it is called, it will always be one of my favourite places. 

[Vaughan]

Come to think of it, I am prepared to bet that anyone who has had a cruising holiday on the north rivers has been up or down Coke Oven Reach.

But do you know it by that name?

[vanessan]

I wonder how many members are reaching for their maps so they can search out Coke Oven Reach! 

[Wussername]

Did not these names originate from the wherry men and their families. Each length of river, from bend to bend was a reach and each was given a name. Some of course were of little significance but many of importance with regard to ease of navigation and to this day are known to some, but will be lost in the fullness of time. 

As will the names of local staiths and moorings as urbanisation takes its relentless toll together with seemingly disregard of concern by the authorities of those who choose to moor or reside long term in places which is seen as inappropriate by many.

Andrew

[Paul]

13 minutes ago, Wussername said:

Each length of river, from bend to bend was a reach and each was given a name. Some of course were of little significance but many of importance with regard to ease of navigation and to this day are known to some, but will be lost in the fullness of time. 

I used to love Hamilton's as it named all the reaches.

[YnysMon]

I noticed that some place names like Candle Dyke were different in Arthur Ransome’s books (Kendle Dyke). Sometimes wondered if it was due to people from different parts of the country mishearing accents. You can’t claim that from Pennygate though!

[ChrisB]

As most people on this forum know my "Tipping Point" was losing Judih to cancer in November 2016. I kept the boat for 15 months but it was never going to be the same. I have to say that I am enjoying non- boat ownership. 

After doing our half acre garden, I always felt obliged to go to or use the boat, now I can go off elsewhere. I go for trips on the Wherry Yachts and Thames Barges and I will probably hire from Martham and just stay above the bridge. I have been tempted but will henceforth will resist ownership.

[MauriceMynah]

11 hours ago, Vaughan said:

How about Devil's Reach, well known to the old wherrymen?

YnysMon has it spot on. Over the years things being misheard has caused many names and phrases to change. To quote from "A History of the Norfolk 'n' Suffolk Broads" , a tome that I'm still in the process of writing.

In 1743, on the expressed instructions of King George II, the practice of professional boatmen to "Bind their brides to the masts of their tenders" became an offence under the relatively new "Practices of men to their new brides act" of 1742.

In those halcyon days of the wherrymen, It had been their tradition to marry at the remains of St Bennets Abbey, and have a blowout meal at the Lion at Thurn. It was also seen by them as 'jolly good fun' to tie the new bride, still in their bridal dress and veil, to the mast of one of the wherry's dinghy's.

Now. As regular cruisers of the northern waters will know, that for reasons unknown, the stretch where the 6mph speed limit starts, the river Bure can, and often does, kick up a bit of a swell, sufficient for it to be felt on the wherry, and certainly enough to rock the dinghy about.

It will of course come as no surprise dear reader to hear that the brides involved were not used to this movement on the water and it was far from unusual for the young ladies to suffer from a mild dose of sea sickness. This was affectionately known as the "Veil's Retch" and the place where it most frequently occurred was, needlessly to say known locally as the "Veils retch reach"

Time changes all things and over the millennia the "retch" was dropped and "The Veils" morphed into "Devils" thus "Devils Reach" was born.

Given that the practice of tying ones bride to a dinghy's mast had been made illegal, the name "Devils Reach" had been applied to several places to throw "red herrings" to the police of the day. This rouse of course failed as most of the police of the day were at the wedding ceremony and would, with the other guests, be following the wherry to the Lion.

You will immediately see that this is where another Broads tradition started. Any wherry cruising up or down a river will have a collection of cruisers behind it, all trying to overtake to get to the pub.

 

Vaughan, I hope I haven't given away too much information towards your interesting question as to where the name "Devils Reach" stuck, but history is important and needs to be learned.

[Vaughan]

47 minutes ago, MauriceMynah said:

Vaughan, I hope I haven't given away too much information towards your interesting question as to where the name "Devils Reach" stuck, but history is important and needs to be learned.

Thank you John, I'd certainly never heard of that one!

I fear we are "nicking" someone else's thread, so I will start a new one in the history section.

[vanessan]

4 minutes ago, Vaughan said:

Thank you John, I'd certainly never heard of that one!

I fear we are "nicking" someone else's thread, so I will start a new one in the history section.

But where is Coke Oven Reach before you go? I thought upstream from Horning but my trusty Hamilton’s guide says that is Cinder Oven Reach. Another ‘localism’ maybe?

[MauriceMynah]

I shall research that in my book, but I'll have to write it first. :)

[Vaughan]

21 minutes ago, vanessan said:

But where is Coke Oven Reach before you go? I thought upstream from Horning but my trusty Hamilton’s guide says that is Cinder Oven Reach. Another ‘localism’ maybe?

Quite right! It had both names. I have now explained elsewhere.