International Perfection

[smitch6]

Going to paint my boat with 2 pack international perfection.

I gather i will need 2 pack undercoat 

but will i need a specific primer / barrier coat before the undercoat

most of the boat has been painted with something before and is flaking off so i will have to get all the flakes off and rub it right back

there is also a bit of original gelcoat but that has loads of deep scratches that will need filling

 

[ExSurveyor]

2 pack is not recommend on previous paints even with primer.

Sounds like you will need to do some serious sanding.

[smitch6]

in a previous post on here i was told to use 2 pack?

[ChrisB]

Go onto International-yachtpaint.com and use their interactive technical facility or contact their technical team.

When I worked for the Red Propeller many years ago tech support was paramount even for the DIY.

What I will say is any finish is only as good as the substrate and how it is prepared.

[smitch6]

i couldn't find an interactive technical 

i have emailed the uk sales rep a few days ago  but he hasn't replied yet

[ChrisB]

You used to be able to filter products ie starting with substrate on to filler primers and then topcoats. 

I would phone the help desk. The problem is if you do not know what it has been painted with before the only really safe way is take it off. But the helpdesk should be able to advise on a Multi-compatible sealer/primer, perhaps a high build epoxy which will require alot of rubbing back.

[JanetAnne]

Fibreglass is polyester based so use polyester fillers for your repairs. Remove or sand the old paint off completely and then use a proper fibreglass primer to get a good etch or grip on the surface. (The reason your current paint is coming off is because fibreglass gelcoat is hard and so the paint lays on the surface rather than sinks into it. The proper primer holds onto the glass fibre much better)

Once your fibreglass primer is dry you can undercoat and gloss using your chosen paints in the normal way

[ChrisB]

Here you are Smitch, this may save a phone call.

 

[Vaughan]

I am going to stick my head up over the parapet here!   

I would not recommend Perfection 709 unless it is applied by a boatyard with a temperature and climate controlled spray booth. I am sure International would agree as they have a network of accredited yards called "Interspray" which are equipped for the job. Brooms used to be one of them, but I don't know if they still are.

I am no chemist, but I have always been told that 709 is really more of a second gelcoat, than a paint. You cannot get a finish with a brush, although some people say that you can sponge it on. I certainly can't! There are very specific limits of humidity and temperature which are all written on the tin, but which cannot be found on the Norfolk Broads in winter!

David Berry of Easticks boatyard was, and still is, a good friend of mine, as he now lives in the south of France. If he had painted the hull of that boat, he would have done it in Permoglaze gloss enamel, supplied by Coopers in Gt Yarmouth. A large number of hire yards always used this, as it is an excellent exterior paint, just as good as normal marine enamel, but about half the price.

As Janet Anne rightly says, you need to give a "key" to the gelcoat. I do this both by sanding it and then using a clear etching primer. So it is "belt and braces". After that the undercoat is simply to give you an even white colour which doesn't show dark bits where damage has been filled. So one coat will sometimes do and you can then touch over any dark bits which still show, without applying a whole second coat. Wait 24 hours before enamelling.

I also recommend painting the waterline, down to below the water surface, in gloss enamel. This is so much easier to keep clean during the season. On a GRP hull I don't bother to antifoul the bottom, for use on inland waterways.

 

[smitch6]

2 minutes ago, Vaughan said:

David Berry of Easticks boatyard was, and still is, a good friend of mine, as he now lives in the south of France. If he had painted the hull of that boat, he would have done it in Permoglaze gloss enamel, supplied by Coopers in Gt Yarmouth. A large number of hire yards always used this, as it is an excellent exterior paint, just as good as normal marine enamel, but about half the price.

 

Thanks for the info appreciated.

On another note can you pass my details onto Dave Berry pls?

as i am desperate to find out more about the Eastick boats especially my falcon 26 Jane Anne as i have been told it started off on the broads but the BA have no record of it and neither do any of the other authorities

[Vaughan]

Send me a PM with your contact details and I will gladly pass them on.

[ChrisB]

I am pretty sure that the Interspray Centres were dropped on the aquisition of International by Akzo Nobel from Courtaulds. The reason was Akzo had their rival under their Awlgrip brand which was a superior system, supplying custom hull colours and painting the likes of Oysters from new.

Quite rightly as vaughan says temperature and humidity can be critical with two packs.

On the subject of etch primers make sure that it is Chromate free. Chromate etching primers should only be used by those trained to do so with the appropriate protection as they can be highly toxic.

[grendel]

many years back now when I was doing some time in the workshops of the first company I worked for, we used to use a two part epoxy paint (was it trimite?) to paint everything on the shutdown units we made for big pumps, I remember clambering round the structures with a tin of paint and a brush and told I had to finish the tin within the hour as then it would set solid, so off I toddled, hand painting all the bolt heads, and the flange edges as well as anything that didnt move fast enough. by the next day the paint was almost indestructible, and  certainly had a good finish considering it was all hand brushed on. but then it probably wasnt going to be subject to as critical an inspection as a boat hull would be.

[ChrisB]

Yes it would probably be Trimite. They were a family business based in Uxbridge, they had their own mixing scheme. They were very good industrial finishes.

[MauriceMynah]

Ok, I'm interested in this ( stop laughing you lot!) as Nyx is in need of some TLC. but this leads me to ask many questions.

If I use a "clear etching primer" what is the maximum time I have before going in with the undercoat?

Google is not being kind to me and doesn't recognise "Permoglaze gloss enamel"

Chris, You talk of Trimite in the past tense. Are they no longer?

What is meant by Phosphating?

and many many more!

[ChrisB]

No, Trimite are very much alive and are now in the Midlands. But they are a very different company to the one that was a major opponent of ours when I worked for International. Just as International is very different. I talk in the past tense because my experience is very in the past. I worked for Courtaulds ( Akzo Nobel pay my pension though ) I am sure that as labs and development integrated products began to share resin bases and intermediates and products were dropped. A key intermediate in International products was made by BASF but Akzo already had a multi-compatible (mcd) product. I talk in the past coz it is for me.

[grendel]

Permoglaze- google search - https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=Permoglaze+gloss+enamel&rlz=1C1GGRV_enGB748GB749&oq=Permoglaze+gloss+enamel&aqs=chrome..69i57&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

though weeding the non enamel ones out might be fun

Trimite - by no means ex - https://www.trimite.com/

 

[Vaughan]

18 minutes ago, MauriceMynah said:

Ok, I'm interested in this ( stop laughing you lot!) as Nyx is in need of some TLC. but this leads me to ask many questions.

Ist question from me : Has Nyx been painted before, or is the hull still in gelcoat only?

[annv]

Hi Mitch Two pack uses a chemical reaction which causes heat hence temperature and humidity constraintsts Jotun do a winter two pack hardener which may be better. to check if your paint is two pack get a rag soaked in cellulose thinners and hold on a aeria of paint if no reaction you have a paint that will take two pack. best way is to remove ALL paint down to gel coat preparation prevents a poor job. and only mix a small amount at a time otherwise you will be throwing a lot away and once laid don't go over it like you do with varnish,whoop it on and leave it. John

[CambridgeCabby]

37 minutes ago, Vaughan said:

41 minutes ago, Vaughan said:

Ist question from me : Has Nyx been painted before, or is the hull still in gelcoat only?

 

If memory serves me right , I think she used to have painted purple highlights when Whispering used to hire her , but then as often is the case my memory may have failed me 

[unclemike]

purple band below toe rail

[smitch6]

right so it looks like 2 pack is out.

so back to 1 pack so whats the best?

[ExSurveyor]

I users international topcoat,  nice and easy and seems to be holding up well.

[annv]

Hi Mitch Why not wait till May when conditions would be good this will give you time to strip of all old paint and prep for a good two pack paint job it will be dry not to hot with long days of daylight and light/no wind to blow dust on drying paint or hang up a curtain of hessian or poly sheeting on poles guyed at intervals, and if you block the boat North/South you can apply the paint in shadow with sun later to harden it off. John

[smitch6]

it prob won't have the top coat on for a while yet, but i want to get an undercoat on her after doing repairs etc

and obviously need to know what paint to know what undercoat