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The Response From Ba.


ChrisB

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7 hours ago, marshman said:

Pete - perhaps you could persuade a few farmers around Hickling to read that then - methinks there could lie a major issue. A limited trial last year has not been continued and possibly was not as successful as had been hoped?

P.S. Not sure what the total cost of Clearwater was, but you can be sure that the supply of money from Europe for such projects looks like it might dry up in the future!

P.P.S. I would hope Riverman could expand a little on his last sentence to enable others to understand more fully!!

If I were a farmer I would not rush to take spoil from dredging given the past environmental problems with Tributyltin. These organotin compounds are slippery customers with a half life of between 2 weeks and 30 years depending on where it lies and the waters Ph. Having said that the vast majority should now be out of the system if everyone followed the 80s ban. I would think the North is pretty good, not sure about The Yare god alone knows what got released in there over the years.

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2 hours ago, grendel said:

I recall reading that the hickling spoil would be pumped into an area bounded off by a membrane, to recreate a reed bed, surely as this is not on farmers land, they can keep at it until that area is full of spoil, irrespective of farmers - maybe this is why they are now able to do the dredging. so farmers permission is maybe not so much of an issue, if reed beds can be created - I do understand this will restrict the amount of navigation, but I would think that the area would have been too shallow to navigate in any case.

yes it was in the BA's december broads briefing https://mailchi.mp/6da961e22660/broads-briefing-december?e=b9e683c9ea

from the look of the area with the boom around it, that will take a fair amount of spoil.

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The spoil from the Yare upstream bits has to be put into special lined pits - you can see these from the bypass. It's not so much the TBT but other squit that came out of the old May and Baker factory!

There are two aspects to the current Hickling dredging I believe - the outer circle is a sediment curtain to stop silt going all over the Broad and the dredgings at the moment are being into large textile bags to form the edges of the lagoon which will be filled in over the next couple of years. Part of this project is being funded by the EU under the CANAPES project and I think the Dutch have been lending assistance and advice. Its NOT the area surrounded by the extensive curtain but closer inshore - infilling one of the very shallow bays on the North shore. Incidentally you will see that currently they are dredging the Catfield channel.

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11 hours ago, JennyMorgan said:

the probable cost of Hickling would be as much as five million in total. Where there is a will there is often a way.

Perhaps we could ask the 'Blofeld Family' how they did it?... They managed to squeeze 5 million out of the National lottery, for the renovation of their private broad on which they don't allow navigation and very limited public access.

Surely a broad that is open to the public, with very few limitations, would stand a good chance of funding, wouldn't it?. Then of course, you would have to seek permission from 'English Nature' to dredge in what is a very fragile area, re: prymnesium, iron ochre, nature habitat. Would that permission be given, I'd be very doubtful...

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The problem with elaboration in regards to a lot of information coming from within BA is that those at the top know exactly which members of staff such information would come from. I have no interest in making any of there staffs lives any more difficult.

However I believe this is relatively common knowledge. There has been an agenda for some time to completely do away with crane dredging in favour of 360 excavators, even though it has a lower cost per m3. 

In regards to suction dredging/mud pumping, it's all about density. Equipment to pump high density mud is (probably) prohibitively expensive for a public operation like BA. A cutter suction machine like a Watermaster that will achieve 80% density is well in excess of a million per unit. 

Just a little context and the reason why I say 50000m3 isn't a lot. Our last large scale dredge, 4 men, 2 barges, a crane to load and a 5t 360 to unload was comfortably achieving 1000m3 per week. All this with a 2 1/2 mile return trip with the spoil. The equipment and barges are all at least half the size of BAs. 

The real answer, with the benefit the hindsight, would have been to make BAM remove spoil from the rivers whilst undertaking the flood alleviation works. Unfortunately that ship sailed.

Please don't take any of this as BA bashing. I know plenty of people with years of knowledge and practical understanding of the broads that could help BA become more efficient, myself included. Unfortunately, they just don't want to know, probably because we don't have a degree. 

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Riverman, your last paragraph has more than a ring of truth to it. They would have listened to you had you had a degree in "Fog Knitting". The degree may have no relevance to the subject or problem , you just need one. Golf course design may be another useful one to have!

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Riverman, you and others haven't been asked because it's not what the BA does. Consult and ignore, perhaps, but ask, no. Numerous good folk have left the Authority since Prof Aitkin Clarke retired. One of those good folk was an experienced, qualified harbour master, perhaps you can guess his identity from that description. On leaving he wrote what's become his infamous Christmas Eve address to all and sundry and one of the points that he made was that the Authority doesn't ask, and that was several years ago so some things never change. Don't take it personally, but you know far too much! 

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Griff - not wanting to rain on your parade, but at this stage I don't think it will include up the dyke itself. Still the channel is better than nothing!

And Pete - what company goes around asking other people what to do before making decisions? Why should the BA be any different? Does Griff put out to consultation how to tile a shower? They may have lost some people who you would suggest were irreplaceable, but going back over my time at work and in a very specialised job, no one was ever irreplaceable!! IMHO you are merely perpetuating a myth that is not really very relevant.

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12 hours ago, keifsmate said:

Riverman, your last paragraph has more than a ring of truth to it. They would have listened to you had you had a degree in "Fog Knitting". The degree may have no relevance to the subject or problem , you just need one. Golf course design may be another useful one to have!

T'was ever thus, in most walks of life... I've had drawings from Engineering graduates, that were unnessecarily complex or 'over engineered'. You go 'up stairs' and explain to the highly paid 'engineer' how to simplify and improve their 'idea' and in the process save a lot of work, problems and money. Sometimes, actually knowing how to do a job, is often better than having a piece of paper that says you know how to do that job... :12_slight_smile:

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'And Pete - what company goes around asking other people what to do before making decisions? Why should the BA be any different?'

I think that's quite a strange comparison to make. In what way do BA behave the same as a private for profit company?

Also from my experience, it's not uncommon at all to quietly consult your competitors when you're a bit stuck or trying to improve how you do something. Usually not the bosses asking each other mind you. 

But that is entirely beside the point, BA don't listen to anyone, not even their own staff. 

It's entirely correct that nobody is irreplaceable, however some are more cost effective to replace than others, something BA would understand if they were a business. 

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Does Griff put out to consultation how to tile a shower?

No he doesn't.  However what I do, do,  is to try and keep my finger on the pulse where it comes to changes to the British Standards rules and regulations for wall / floor tiling, innovations in tools, improvements in types of adhesives / grouts, underfloor heating etc. As an example, just one change is that it is no longer recommended to overboard a floating floor with plywood.  I stopped overboarding with ply years ago before this new ruling came into force (Although it did and no doubt would still perform ok) we now use various backerboards with differing methods of application / performance.  The primer recommendation has upgraded too, no longer is watered down PVA used - nowadays it has to be acrylic

What I'm trying to say is that I do not for one minute believe that my way is the only way and year on year I am learning and improving (Hopefully). I listen to the industry research specialists and my peers and take onboard improvements as and where I see fit.  The Ba could well improve efficiency if only they too would just consider listening to those that know.  It may well be their loss, ultimately as toll payers it is sadly our loss

Griff

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