Syndicates, Thoughts

[ranworthbreeze]

53 minutes ago, SteveDuk said:

I know a few syndicates have gone the managed to self-managed route but have any ever gone the other way?

None that I can remember Steve.

When we sacked our old management company back in 2011 we looked at and approached BCBM as an alternative management company but we decided that the £6000.00 plus per year required would be better off spent on the boat.

Regards

Alan

[jimbob88]

5 minutes ago, ranworthbreeze said:

we decided that the £6000.00 plus per year required would be better off spent on the boat.

Regards

Alan

Couldn't agree more with that. 

[oldgregg]

31 minutes ago, ranworthbreeze said:

When we sacked our old management company back in 2011 we looked at and approached BCBM as an alternative management company but we decided that the £6000.00 plus per year required would be better off spent on the boat.

It's a big saving that can be re-invested, for sure.

I know of a syndicate where three individuals offered to take on the management duties in order to keep everything realistic and spread the load, and in recognition for their time and effort they'd get a reduction in their running costs.

This would mean the boat was run by people with an interest in maintaining it well, and would save the syndicate over £4500 a year which could instead be spent on the boat, include winter maintenance etc etc.

The consensus was that anyone taking up the role should be doing it for the greater good and not getting anything back for their vast amounts of time, emails, phonecalls, handovers, turnarounds etc. Funnily enough, the offer was withdrawn and the vote taken to carry on chucking money at a management company.

[jimbob88]

Sounds very familiar.

[ZimbiIV]

Zimbi is like a syndicate boat, Jill and I share to costs.

For various reasons we still have seperate accounts, she has hers and we have mine!

Seriously taking out the purchase cost Zimbi does not seem dearer to run than some of the dearer syndicates and I don't do the engine work, a back problem rules that out.

The biggest cost over the season is 14 round trips of 600 miles each trip.

paul

[SPEEDTRIPLE]

As most will know, Lightning is self managed, and we have an excellent management team of Chairman and treasurer. I`ve often been on the phone to our chairman for up to an hour discussing how we think Lightning should be run, what we would like to do etc etc. But no matter what we discuss, everything is open to the Syndicate as a whole, and irrespective of what I want, if the majority don`t want the same, we have to respect that and enjoy Lightning as she is. The fact is though, Lightning seems to be a Syndicate mainly consisting of like minded people, and we mostly agree with everything each other says. 

Re management costs, i noted Matts comment saying their fees for a half share is £900, so a full share is looking at £1,800. Lightnings annual running cost are around £1,400 per annum all in.  That`s a saving of £400, which is roughly about the cost of each owners share of the management fee in other Syndicates.

We do sometimes do some of the work ourselves so as to save money, and when we were there in November, i rubbed down and varnished some woodwork, and went shopping for some replacement galley equipment, which i was re-imbursed for. Later this year, i will be looking to improve one of the door latches, and re-spray / paint part of the upper helm seat stem. Im also thinking of how to improve the tv ariel mounting etc, as the set up we have resulted in about 3" - 4" lost clearance for bridges. so i`m looking into viable alternatives.

Self managed Syndicates are great all the time you have (like we do in Lightning, and as i know, Ranworth Breeze does) a good and dedicated management team who want what`s best for the boat, as they too are share owners. However, management companies are businesses that need to make money to pay for wages, and may be keen to take the money, but do as little as possible for their clientelle. Challenger has given management companies a bit of a bad name, unwarranted maybe, but whenever i`ve discussed Syndicate ownership with other interested people (several NBN members), often the Challenger case still puts some people off. 

[jimbob88]

Can anyone remember the strange syndicate about 10 years or more ago. Ran the old kingfisher surveyor boat. Really weird concept where you got your set weeks then just a free for all for as long as you like in winter. Obviously a terrible idea as it just disappeared. 

[SPEEDTRIPLE]

1 hour ago, jimbob88 said:

Can anyone remember the strange syndicate about 10 years or more ago. Ran the old kingfisher surveyor boat. Really weird concept where you got your set weeks then just a free for all for as long as you like in winter. Obviously a terrible idea as it just disappeared. 

Never heard of that one Jim, so can`t help you there.

[webntweb]

1 hour ago, jimbob88 said:

Can anyone remember the strange syndicate about 10 years or more ago. Ran the old kingfisher surveyor boat. Really weird concept where you got your set weeks then just a free for all for as long as you like in winter. Obviously a terrible idea as it just disappeared. 

Is this the one you are thinking of Jim?

The chap was running it as a cruising B&B out of the boatyard at Wayford Bridge while he was trying to get people interested in buying shares. As you say it was a weird concept.

Chris and I spent a night on it in July 07. We already had a share in a narrowboat and could see that his idea was flawed - being possibly too reliant on the goodwill of other members.

He and his wife were a nice couple and it was a shame his idea didn't work.

He also had a couple of other boats in his scheme including at least one very nice woody.

Roy

[dnks34]

Wasnt it called “keyholder” or something like that

[AdnamsGirl]

18 minutes ago, dnks34 said:

Wasnt it called “keyholder” or something like that

 

Quayside Club I seem to remember?

 

Carol

[NorfolkNog]

8 hours ago, AdnamsGirl said:

Quayside Club I seem to remember?

Carol's right, this is the boy

[SPEEDTRIPLE]

I`m always cautious of other forms of shared ownership or use. Around 40 years back, there was a timeshare boat on the Thames. It was a Princess 30, and you could buy a week a year in a fixed period for 10 years. The cheapest which was usually the beginning of April or the end of October (i think?) which cost £695, but then there was the annual service charge, which i can`t remember the cost of, but with inflation in the early 80s, i allowed for an annual inflation rate of 5%. After 10 years, the total cost of the initial purchase + compound service fee amounted to around £3,500, which is 7x the initial purchase fee. The worst part was unlike a Syndicate share,  after the 10 years, the boat was sold by the company, and all costs etc, replacement parts, engine, gearbox, galley equipment etc etc etc was deducted from the sale price, and supposedly, the remainder was split between the timeshare holders, minus possibly a final management fee. I did wonder whether it was in the small print that if the cost of replacement parts outweighed the price of the sale, the timeshare owners then instead of getting a cheque for any residual balance, would be getting another bill to top up the loss?.

For Karen and i, Syndicate ownership now (with our new automated allocation system) works perfectly. We can have a minimum 4 weeks per year, a week in each season, and possibly other weeks not used by other owners. We pay our annual running costs etc, and at any time in the future, we can sell our share if we wanted to, with no financial clauses. In fact, i`m looking to retire in about 5 years time, and have seriously considered buying another share, so that we can swap our weeks around, and regularly have maybe 2 weeks at a time several times a year. Yes the running costs will double, but they will still be cheaper than outright ownership, or hiring for maybe 6 weeks a year.

[KaptinKev]

For me syndicates are a no no. I have to own the boat whole or nothing because I would rather clear up after myself and find the boat as I left it and not after someone else! I appreciate that there are a few syndicates on here who respect the other owners and leave the boat as they find it. But my boat would be like my house, I wouldn't want anyone else unless family inside it.

[oldgregg]

12 hours ago, KaptinKev said:

For me syndicates are a no no. I have to own the boat whole or nothing because I would rather clear up after myself and find the boat as I left it and not after someone else! I appreciate that there are a few syndicates on here who respect the other owners and leave the boat as they find it. But my boat would be like my house, I wouldn't want anyone else unless family inside it.

This is why the managed syndicates use cleaners on turnaround days.

I get what you're saying though in that not everyone looks after the boat in the same way (sadly) and some owners have a limited understanding of how the boat works.

Trying to explain to some of our owners why it's not a clever idea to plug in two 2KW electric fires on the 16A shore power (in addition to the battery charger and immersion heater) tends to result in raised eyebrows and suggestions that we're being melodramatic.

[Mark]

On ‎04‎/‎01‎/‎2019 at 20:47, SPEEDTRIPLE said:

As most will know, Lightning is self managed, and we have an excellent management team of Chairman and treasurer. I`ve often been on the phone to our chairman for up to an hour discussing how we think Lightning should be run, what we would like to do etc etc. But no matter what we discuss, everything is open to the Syndicate as a whole, and irrespective of what I want, if the majority don`t want the same, we have to respect that and enjoy Lightning as she is. The fact is though, Lightning seems to be a Syndicate mainly consisting of like minded people, and we mostly agree with everything each other says. 

Re management costs, i noted Matts comment saying their fees for a half share is £900, so a full share is looking at £1,800. Lightnings annual running cost are around £1,400 per annum all in.  That`s a saving of £400, which is roughly about the cost of each owners share of the management fee in other Syndicates.

We do sometimes do some of the work ourselves so as to save money, and when we were there in November, i rubbed down and varnished some woodwork, and went shopping for some replacement galley equipment, which i was re-imbursed for. Later this year, i will be looking to improve one of the door latches, and re-spray / paint part of the upper helm seat stem. Im also thinking of how to improve the tv ariel mounting etc, as the set up we have resulted in about 3" - 4" lost clearance for bridges. so i`m looking into viable alternatives.

Self managed Syndicates are great all the time you have (like we do in Lightning, and as i know, Ranworth Breeze does) a good and dedicated management team who want what`s best for the boat, as they too are share owners. However, management companies are businesses that need to make money to pay for wages, and may be keen to take the money, but do as little as possible for their clientelle. Challenger has given management companies a bit of a bad name, unwarranted maybe, but whenever i`ve discussed Syndicate ownership with other interested people (several NBN members), often the Challenger case still puts some people off. 

A full share in Thunder  costs £71 a month in running costs so £852 a year.  Add the Management fee its a total of £1,296.

Our owners also work on the boat.  WM  and any upgrades done during it and  agreed at the AGM are of course also extra . 

Repairs / replacements etc during  the season come out of the account to which the £71 goes to.  Last season for  eg  we had a new cooker/hob added and also a  battery charger amongst other things as the £71  maintains a healthy bank balance for these very things.            

[Seagypsy]

We hired on the broads mid 70s to mid 80s had our own boat on canals for last 30 yrs sold it and went back to hiring never fancied sydicates. Had a week last May and 10 days in Sept. two hols booked this year 2weeks 13 to 27 May on a 34 ft sedan and 10 days 7 to 17 Sept on a 35ft centre cockpit total cost just under £1730. Going when I want to go and no worries just ring the boatyard