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BroadAmbition

Closed Season - Have Your Say

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I personally feel a lot more people would visist during the closed season if fishing was allowed. Rentals are not so expensive and I for one could afford the prices then as I really am outpriced in the summer. Which only leaves out of hi holiday season for me for the fishing. I love the Broads but it can get a little nippy between October and March which is really the only times I am able to afford rentals. Prices are still reasonable between March and June and I feel many more fisherman would travel down and make use of the rental properties and boats if the closed fishing season was to open for anglers. Mike.

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Whilst we enjoy cruising out of season despite the colder weather, I can understand why that might not appeal for fishing. However ... as a non-fisher-person, I do enjoy cruising without having to avoid the fishing lines and able to moor without wondering whether anglers will be taking the spaces. 

The rivers are there for all to co-exist peacefully ... each to their own.

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50 minutes ago, MikyO said:

I personally feel a lot more people would visist during the closed season if fishing was allowed. Rentals are not so expensive and I for one could afford the prices then as I really am outpriced in the summer. Which only leaves out of hi holiday season for me for the fishing. I love the Broads but it can get a little nippy between October and March which is really the only times I am able to afford rentals. Prices are still reasonable between March and June and I feel many more fisherman would travel down and make use of the rental properties and boats if the closed fishing season was to open for anglers. Mike.

Sent from the Norfolk Broads Network mobile app
 

Generally speaking the fishing is much better in September to November than in high summer.

Fred

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Whilst we enjoy cruising out of season despite the colder weather, I can understand why that might not appeal for fishing. However ... as a non-fisher-person, I do enjoy cruising without having to avoid the fishing lines and able to moor without wondering whether anglers will be taking the spaces. 
The rivers are there for all to co-exist peacefully ... each to their own.
It can be awkward for both boater and fisherman. It can be really difficult navigating at times when you have anglers on the banks with their massive roach poles especially when there is a lot of traffic on the waterways. Both Angler and boater should have respect for one another and both angler and boater should be aware of the waterways rules and regulations. Unfortunately not everyone keeps to the rules and many just think rules are there to be broken. I love fishing but have also experienced the not so pleasant angler when boating. Mostly though my experience of the Broads has been pleasantly amazing but no matter where we go or what we do there will always be the awkward ones. Mike.

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Think of the real positive of the close season, it's been alluded to and that is the lack of anglers at 24 hour moorings!

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You can bet your bottom dollar that if fishing was allowed all year the prices of holiday homes would soar.   No more quite times.     Yes and I am married to a chap who loves his fishing.     Can we keep the closed season please.   Only time I get a decent conversation.

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Not sure that my wife likes the close season, perhaps it all the stuff in the kitchen sink or dishwasher having the dried on crud being washed/soaked  off. Or is it not having the bed to herself in the morning!

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29 minutes ago, Hylander said:

You can bet your bottom dollar that if fishing was allowed all year the prices of holiday homes would soar.   

I totally agree with you there, market forces will always drive prices etc UP, never down. If the close season WAS abolished, i would be very happy to have Lightning in April and May (we`ve had her in April anyway) because we can take the fishing gear. The down side, and i`m not trying to be selfish here, is that those that wish to hire for fishing, will no doubt face price hikes for April and May, or at least pay the same as they would in mid June onwards.

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Many of these arguments don't add up.

Anglers would have us believe that they are bastions of conservation, that they work to protect the natural environment and preserve fish stocks yet they suggest that, as some fish may not spawn with the calendar window laid down as the closed season that there is a valid argument to discard the closed season altogether and fish right htrough the spawn? Am I the only one who finds that a bit backwards? Surely the argument should not be whether to abolish the closed season, but should it be extended? Or, do we accept that it is not perfect but that it is a decent compromise? Fish are very easily stressed, nobody really knows what the inpact caused by catch and return during their spawning season would have but is there any valid reason to take that risk? It would be good to have a clear, unambiguous statement from Angling Trust with their stance on the closed season. They are after all the organisation which claims to promote this conservation but after trawling their website for some time I cannot find one. 

The bit about holiday prices doesn't add up as far as I can work out either. If the fishing season had such an imapct that we would see "hikes" should the closed season be lifted then surely prices in September when angling is permitted would be higher than those in May and early June when it is not (ignoring the bank holiday dates), but they are not. Having looked at a number of holiday parks, boat yards and cottage companies September is generally cheaper. 

But there are other conisderations too. Whatever their protestations angling causes considerable damage to the banks. You only need to cruise from Oulton down to Beccles to witness the long term impact of clearing swims. This is not just cutting reeds to reach the rivers edge but pulling them out of the margins to allow the landing of fish. In places there are permanent little bays forming where these swims have been cut. Not only does the close season give these areas some chance to recover, if not completely at least in art, but it also protects waterfowl that breed in these margins.

Simply put, there is no sensible argument for abolishing the closed season. It isn't perfect, but I tend to go with the best compromise option.

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"Fish are very easily stressed, nobody really knows the impact caused....................."

Correct me if i`m wrong, but you`ve contradicted yourself in a big way. 

As i`ve said in an earlier post, spawning IS`NT governed by a calender date, it`s governed by climatic and weather conditions, i`ve witnessed that myself from the beginning of February to Late August, so the fixed close season as is, is somewhat irrelevent. Also, as has been proved by science, but not liked by authority because it does away with their argument, spawning fish WON`T feed. Comments about reed beds being cut down are debatable, as if these very small patches of reed were in fact left alone, then we`d start to see them encroaching into the main navigation area, then we`d get complaints about that too. As for wildlife habitat, why don`t you live in a mud hut so you`re not impacting on ANY form of wildlife by living in a large brick built structure with a cultivated garden without thought for wildlife habitat, get the point?.

The simple fact is, the closed season as is, is completely unnecessary, and always has been, it`s just that nowadays, with so much scientific research being available to the public, we are at last finding out. 

If ANY angler likes to see a closed season, then fine, don`t fish at that time, but please don`t be so selfish to make everybody else follow your way of life just because you think it`s right

ABOLISH THE CLOSED SEASON NOW.

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6 minutes ago, SPEEDTRIPLE said:

Correct me if i`m wrong, but you`ve contradicted yourself in a big way. 

Then consider yourself corrected, I see no contradiction there, simply two consecutive, related statements. As the second statement offers no validation to the first I fail to see how it can contradict it? Perhaps you have a different understanding of "contradict".

13 minutes ago, SPEEDTRIPLE said:

As i`ve said in an earlier post, spawning IS`NT governed by a calender date, it`s governed by climatic and weather conditions,

As I agreed, however the fact that SOME fish might spawn outside of the closed season is not a sensible argument to abolish it, but to either extend it, or accept an imperfect compromise and leave it as it is, the option I would advocate. 

19 minutes ago, SPEEDTRIPLE said:

Also, as has been proved by science, but not liked by authority because it does away with their argument, spawning fish WON`T feed.

Perhaps you can link to this scientific evidence, as I cannot find it. Perhaps "authority" doesn't like this evidence because it does not exist? In fact what I did find whilst searching was advice on how to fish for both Carp and Salmon whilst spawning, posted by the angling community. That I suggest puts lie to your statement.

25 minutes ago, SPEEDTRIPLE said:

Comments about reed beds being cut down are debatable, as if these very small patches of reed were in fact left alone, then we`d start to see them encroaching into the main navigation area, then we`d get complaints about that too.

The evidence can be seen easily enough, and I've told you where to look. I fail to understand your argument about encroachment as these swims are being cut back into the reedbed. The reedbeds either side are not encroaching the river, but I think you probably knew that.

28 minutes ago, SPEEDTRIPLE said:

As for wildlife habitat, why don`t you live in a mud hut so you`re not impacting on ANY form of wildlife by living in a large brick built structure with a cultivated garden without thought for wildlife habitat, get the point?.

By what authority do you assume I live "without thought for wildlife habitat", that is extremely condescending. Quite the opposite in fact. I garden organically, I provide a number of natural habitats both in my garden and on my allotment for species such as bees, insects, amphibians, birds and hedgehogs. As for the bit about living in a mud hut then sadly your need to resort to such flippancy merely illustrates the total deficiency of your argument. 

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I have to say ST, that wasn't your best constructed argument but you will be delighted to read that I disagree with it anyway.

As a boater who fishes, I have a foot in both camps. my view is to keep the closed season whether or not it impacts on the spawning season. I never did understand why the canals lakes etc. were treated differently in fact from my standpoint enclosed fisheries are in greater need of the closed season than the rivers are.

Where I think we can agree is that within the angling fraternity there is a proportion which shows poor fish handling techniques. This ranges from youngsters who are yet to learn best practice, to those who perhaps just don't care as much as they should. We all see actions like hoisting fish out of the water without using landing nets, handling fish without a wet cloth and chucking fish back in the water rather than placing them back. Other poor practices also happen but those examples will do.

It is my opinion that the closed season gives those which survive the season a couple of months to recover. 

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Looking at the latest findings from the survey there is likely to be some change(s) put forward to the current legislation. I'd prefer them to scrap it but that's from a selfish point of view or make it a uniform close season across all water bodies!

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20 hours ago, Paul said:

Then consider yourself corrected, I see no contradiction there, simply two consecutive, related statements. As the second statement offers no validation to the first I fail to see how it can contradict it? Perhaps you have a different understanding of "contradict".

 

In your own words Paul,  "Fish are easily stressed", then followed up again in your own words by, "Nobody really knows what the impact caused by catch and return during the spawning season would have".  The first four words are a statement of truth, then you claim the opposite saying "nobody really knows etc".  That IS  a contradiction because they mean the opposite. By saying FISH ARE, you are making a definite statement that you know to be true. Then you claim nobody really knows, "nobody" includes you.

20 hours ago, Paul said:

 

Perhaps you can link to this scientific evidence, as I cannot find it. Perhaps "authority" doesn't like this evidence because it does not exist? In fact what I did find whilst searching was advice on how to fish for both Carp and Salmon whilst spawning, posted by the angling community. That I suggest puts lie to your statement.

  

I`ve read for many years many of the angling press, Anglers Mail, Angling Times, Coarse Fishing etc etc etc,  and they`ve all quoted the fact that scientists from various universities have done exhaustive research over many years proving that the closed season has no real and purposeful point. Fine if you don`t want to believe it, but if what they have published is untrue, they are liable for prosecution, which they have`nt been.  Much of authority is made up of older generations who have followed the same belief for many years, and are NOT keen on finding out their long held beliefs are in fact wrong.

20 hours ago, Paul said:

 

 . I fail to understand your argument about encroachment as these swims are being cut back into the reedbed. The reedbeds either side are not encroaching the river, but I think you probably knew that.

 

If left unchecked, reeds will always encroach on the river, it`s what`s been going on for several hundred years on the Broads, or perhaps you had`nt noticed.  Just look at Waxham New Cut off Horsey Mere, The dyke off Hickling Broad to the east (can`t remember the name), they`ve got reeds that are virtually closing the navigation. A couple of years or so back, somebody posted a film clip on youtube where an Elysian 27 was making its way up Waxham new cut, and both sides of the hull were touching the reeds. The Elysian 27 has a beam of just 9ft 6ins, as MM will testify, so absolutely no chance of taking a wherry up there like they used to.

Perhaps you`d prefer if Angling clubs were not allowed to cut swims into reeds altogether, so when they overtake the banks and start to encroach on the river, and threatening navigation you won`t mind being restricted on cruising grounds. Also, all those anglers can fish from public staithes and refuse to allow boats to moor, what would you say about that?.

 

21 hours ago, Paul said:

 

By what authority do you assume I live "without thought for wildlife habitat", that is extremely condescending. Quite the opposite in fact. I garden organically, I provide a number of natural habitats both in my garden and on my allotment for species such as bees, insects, amphibians, birds and hedgehogs. As for the bit about living in a mud hut then sadly your need to resort to such flippancy merely illustrates the total deficiency of your argument. 


Your claim for "providing a number of natural habitats in your garden and allotment" is also a contradiction. Gardens are mainly laid out by people, and allotments are cultivated by people for certain things. Therefore, gardens and allotments  are NOT "natural habitats". 

 

 

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54 minutes ago, SPEEDTRIPLE said:

Therefore, gardens and allotments  are NOT "natural habitats". 

Not being a keen gardener I have to admit to having let nature take over!

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16 minutes ago, SPEEDTRIPLE said:

In your own words Paul,  "Fish are easily stressed", then followed up again in your own words by, "Nobody really knows what the impact caused by catch and return during the spawning season would have".  The first four words are a statement of truth, then you claim the opposite saying "nobody really knows etc".  That IS  a contradiction because they mean the opposite. By saying FISH ARE, you are making a definite statement that you know to be true. Then you claim nobody really knows, "nobody" includes you.

I'm not sure I can explain that any more clearly than I already have. It's quite possible to know one thing and not know the effect of that thing, that is not a contradiction. 

28 minutes ago, SPEEDTRIPLE said:

I`ve read for many years many of the angling press, Anglers Mail, Angling Times, Coarse Fishing etc etc etc,  and they`ve all quoted the fact that scientists from various universities have done exhaustive research over many years proving that the closed season has no real and purposeful point. Fine if you don`t want to believe it, but if what they have published is untrue, they are liable for prosecution, which they have`nt been.  Much of authority is made up of older generations who have followed the same belief for many years, and are NOT keen on finding out their long held beliefs are in fact wrong.

I'll take that as a no then, but that you have read it in, surprise surprise, the angling press. I doubt any of us are gullible enough to think that all you read in the press is true. If only it were, but there is no London bus on the moon and a dictator's bones never were found on Brighton beach.

31 minutes ago, SPEEDTRIPLE said:

If left unchecked, reeds will always encroach on the river, it`s what`s been going on for several hundred years on the Broads, or perhaps you had`nt noticed.  Just look at Waxham New Cut off Horsey Mere, The dyke off Hickling Broad to the east (can`t remember the name), they`ve got reeds that are virtually closing the navigation. A couple of years or so back, somebody posted a film clip on youtube where an Elysian 27 was making its way up Waxham new cut, and both sides of the hull were touching the reeds. The Elysian 27 has a beam of just 9ft 6ins, as MM will testify, so absolutely no chance of taking a wherry up there like they used to.

Perhaps you`d prefer if Angling clubs were not allowed to cut swims into reeds altogether, so when they overtake the banks and start to encroach on the river, and threatening navigation you won`t mind being restricted on cruising grounds. Also, all those anglers can fish from public staithes and refuse to allow boats to moor, what would you say about that?.

I've navigated Waxham New Cut, on a Bounty 27 by coincidence, I know it is very narrow up there but the reeds are cut back annually to maintain navigation to the moorings up by the bridge. The other Dyke you refer to is Catfield, I've done that one too which is generally wider. There are a greater number of boats moored at the top of Catfield which keep the dyke clear though i would imagine there is still some cutback required. You would get a Wherry up either if you had a mind to do so and cleared the reeds accordingly but please don't try and make me nelieve that anglers, good folk that most of them are, are cutting back the reeds to maintain the navigation. Be careful about your comment on punlic staithes to. If the are enacted as public staithes and not just called a staithe by tradition then they are part of the highway and none of is, anglers or otherwise have the right to obstruct them. Personally I have always found the broads big enough for boaters and anglers. 

 

2 hours ago, SPEEDTRIPLE said:

Your claim for "providing a number of natural habitats in your garden and allotment" is also a contradiction. Gardens are mainly laid out by people, and allotments are cultivated by people for certain things. Therefore, gardens and allotments  are NOT "natural habitats". 

What habitat is truly "natural" nowadays, a few acres of forest in Scotland, the odd stretch of moorland in Cumbria? Most of what we consider "natural habitat" is in someway managed or influenced by man, as are the Broads, as you well know. Do you suggest that we abandon them all, because  the are not "natural"?

 

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Being both a boater and an active Angler, I too have a trotter in both camps.

With regards to those that quote scientific argument on either side of maintaining or abolishing the closed season - I don't give a toss - Not even a nanno.  I do however have an opinion and complete any surveys related to this hot topic I come accross

I want the closed season maintained just as it is, not reduced but maybe extended if owt.  My reasons are not scientific but they are my reasons, opinions and I'm entitled to them all the same.  I do not expect others to agree with my opinions, just respect my right to voice them whether they are agreed with or not.  I'll list a few of my reasons to continue with the closed season on the rivers of the Broads in no particular order.  My list is not definitive and I maintain the right to add to it as I see fit:-

1) It gives the banks / fauna a respite.  2) It gives nesting birds a respite.  3) It give none nesting birds a respite.  3) It gives all riverside wildlife a respite.  4) It gives the fish a respite.  5)  It gives boaters a few precious weeks of not having to keep a wary lookout for bank anglers camouflaged or otherwise.  6)  It gives the rag-n-stick brigade full use of the river without having to worry about anglers.  7)  It removes any potential arguments with regards to mooring / angling for a few precious weeks.  8) It gives no end of partners a respite from the Angler onboard a vessel choosing a mooring based on the prospect of fishing.  9)  It gives non fishing partners the opportunity to 'Get Stuff Done' by their Angling other halfs.  10)  It sometimes gets my blood pressure up witnessing out of season fishing but a chance to 'Do the right thing' - Report them!  and finally 11)  I like the closed season

Griff

 

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