Car Talk

[grendel]

Robin, my dad is much the same, when he changes batteries he can look up in his little book, and tell you how long the battery lasted, how much he paid for it etc etc. he has housekeeping books going back to before I was born with every purchase noted down, so he can look up and see how the price for a tin of luncheon meat has gone up since before 1960.

Oldgregg, thats why I like my volvo diesel, its a 5 cylinder lump, not high revving (red line is about 4000 rpm) ok its the older model, doesnt have particulate filters or any of that rubbish, but as it gets a good daily run, it doesnt smoke too badly unless you absolutely floor it. its 17 years old, and has 172,000 miles on it now. if I sold it I could get pretty close to what I paid for it, (how much value do brand new cars lose in their first few years?) its a bit like having to have the latest phone isnt it.

[oldgregg]

I checked what the legislation is and the European Commission say this:

Quote

The target of 130g/km was phased in between 2012 and 2015. From 2015 onwards, all newly registered cars must comply with the limit value curve.

A shorter phase-in period will apply to the target of 95 g/km. 95% of each manufacturer's new cars will have to comply with the limit value curve in 2020, increasing to 100% in 2021.

That's a very ambitious target and we're going to see a real shift in the industry as they struggle to produce compliant cars.

Our government has said they'll just copy what the EU does when it comes to future vehicle legislation, so there's no escaping it here. Plus no-one is going to build cars specifically for the UK market anyway.

I can imagine salesmen spinning all sorts of stories to push particular models to customers in order that the manufacturer meets their targets.

You can see why the industry wants to move to producing electric vehicles, even if the infrastructure isn't ready.

[Malanka]

Without drastically reducing base load, having cheaper spinning  reserve options and making renewables reliable it will never matter if the infrastructure is there or not. 

Until that happens the commission is wondering why it’s legs are wet when peeing into the wind. 

Ask yourself why they didn’t mandate replacement battery technology common to all electric cars, no recharge stations just slip in via fork truck a new one, pay the charge and drive away. That way range limitations mean nothing. 

The goals are great and will see fulfillment WHEN the technology is mature enough not because it’s mandated and subsidized by everyone who chooses not to have one.

we didn’t get steam trains and Iron ships, computers, mobile phones because some incompetent idiots in Brussels or any government said so. 

We got those things because economics and the people said so.

Take away the subsidy and how many Tesla cars would we really see?? 

Musks subsidy / grant bill which will never be repaid is currently 5.4 Billion dollars... 

General Motors or Toyota did it for a lot less. 

Such is life

 

M

[grendel]

you will never get the infrastructure to provide the additional energy for the charging points, especially using the existing cabling in most large towns and cities. 

to provide the additional cabling required throughout a city like london would mean ripping out and completely replacing the existing infrastructure. at present our cable routes to supply new buildings in london are getting longer, up to 6km from the outskirts to provide enough energy for some of the new developments, since a fast car charger on average uses 3x the energy needed for a house, we dont have that sort of capacity to spare in our capital.

No, the answer is the development of hydrogen  fuel cells, that is the only way we will manage to bring in electric vehicles - but then where will that hydrogen come from?- water, well the infrastructure for that will have to be upgraded, electricity will be needed to crack the water into oxygen and hydrogen, and that takes energy.

if the government were serious about this tand started upgrading the infrastructure to cope with all this the next problem would be - where do we put that infrastructure - the pavements are already full, laying new services in the carriageway isnt the ideal solution, but thats about all thats left to us - so what does that mean, yes to improve the infrastructure roads would have to be closed so the work could be done, oh that means the cars wont be able to drive down them - catch 22 anyone.

[Paul]

mmmm, siezed water pump on a BMW. If you do a bit of googling you will find that it is not that uncommon, in fact rather a well known issue. A lot of examples on the BMW forums, especially stateside. If you know what to listen for they usually emit a tell tale whine just before they go.

Sadly your experience with warranies is all too common. The claims process is deliberatley awkward in order to make you use one of their "approved repairers" who will do the job (if they can do it at all) on a budget. I  had a very bad experience with one company who shall not be named, but let's say it wasn't the WISE-est move I ever made. That ended up in the small claims court.

 

[ExSurveyor]

With the upcoming ban on gas Boilers in new builds,  leading to increasing demand for electricity to power homes,  how is the further demand for electric cars going to be met ?

[grendel]

the question is if the demand for electricity to the homes is going to be met.

we also do fibre installs, I recently had to quote a fibre duct run in rural sussex, as the nearest BT fibre was over a mile away the quote came out in 6 figures

[oldgregg]

50 minutes ago, psychicsurveyor said:

With the upcoming ban on gas Boilers in new builds,  leading to increasing demand for electricity to power homes,  how is the further demand for electric cars going to be met ?

Yeah I don't see how that one is feasible, and really is a step backwards.

Storage heaters I guess would be what people are forced towards as electric boilers are pretty expensive to run, with instantaneous heaters for hot water. Actually likely to be very reliable compared to gas boilers, but the energy bills would be scary. And I'm sure many on here remember how horrible storage heaters are.

And yeah, the power has to come from somewhere. Build a new estate of 1,000 houses that are all-electric and that's an insane amount of energy required out of nowhere - And everyone will need maximum heat at the same time.

[grendel]

we apply diversity to projects (the assumption that everyone isnt using everything at the same time), your average house uses 1.5kVA (kW) if it is gas heated, if you add electric heating that figure rises to approximately 6kVA, thus you need at least 4 times as many substations and larger cables etc etc, add car charging to each plot (3kW) and that now 6 times as much electrical infrastructure required

[OldBerkshireBoy]

2 hours ago, psychicsurveyor said:

With the upcoming ban on gas Boilers in new builds,  leading to increasing demand for electricity to power homes,  how is the further demand for electric cars going to be met ?

They tried this gas boiler ban before and it didn`t work plus not a lot has changed since so can`t see it being law myself, well not in my lifetime.

[OldBerkshireBoy]

1 hour ago, grendel said:

we apply diversity to projects (the assumption that everyone isnt using everything at the same time), your average house uses 1.5kVA (kW) if it is gas heated, if you add electric heating that figure rises to approximately 6kVA, thus you need at least 4 times as many substations and larger cables etc etc, add car charging to each plot (3kW) and that now 6 times as much electrical infrastructure required

This has been discussed on a plumbing forum with sparkies chipping in with comments and as things stand at the moment it just isn`t possible as there is no money for building what is required.

[ExSurveyor]

Some of the biggest condensation problems I come across are in all electric properties,  invariably the storage heaters are expensive to use and inadequate,  electric heaters and electric underfloor heating is too expensive for the occupants to use for more than a couple of hours a day.

Colour gas fires are sometimes used,  these are horrendous contributors to condensation formation.

[LondonRascal]

Lovely NBN with the off topic tack

My Mum has an issue that the house has all storage heaters, no gas supply. The storage heaters are slowly letting their age show, things like the baffles that open to let heat out into the room have failed on three and regardless of of the control they stays closed. Another one the thermostat no longer works.

So she looked in other alternatives, had some visits from keen salesmen with fancy ceramic heaters etc, but is now looking to go with an Air Heat Pump - basically an air conditioner working in reverse, and since the heat is produced from the refrigerant removing residual heat from the outside air and multiplying it, it is one of the most efficient forms of heating as what you put in in energy more comes out. However I am not too sure on how this heat generated gets around the home - individual air handlers or just heated water that could be pumps to radiators - I am not getting involved with that one.

I was reading in one of my rail magazines about new targets being laid down to try and remove all diesel fuelled rail movements by 2040 - which is a joke because even though we have bi-mode trains which are literally just coming in to service now on the West Coast, East Coast and soon Greater Anglia services in Norfolk and Suffolk, they only make sense where they can actually operate in electric only mode - and since there is no way you are going to electrify small branch lines they may well be able to work in bi-mode if there is power but in reality they will just operate as diesel run trains. Now sure the engines are far more economical (big MAN units) but they also are more sensitive than the old rattling smokey units of old, they like better quality fuel and so that is going to have cost implications to the operators.

But there is Hydrogen train testing going on right now in Europe and even over here we are doing a lot of research into this, another idea is battery power trains so you just electrify short sections or even terminus stations and the train is topped up when waiting for its next working. This is all good until you read into the various technology, the cos per watt hour of lithium, the weight, the cost of Hydrogen and what you get out of it (battery power is way more efficient and energy dense than Hydrogen fuel cells) so while these are good ideas, and innovation often comes out of a need to change, I cannot see too much happening on that front - same goes for freight by road with HGV's.

So who are the easy subjects to go after? Yep the average motoring public. Not only are we taxed through our Vehicle Excise Duty through what our cars emissions are, many are then given a double whammy when their residents parking permit is also tracked to heir emissions. In London the Ultra Low Emissions Zone comes into effect next month and this will effect not only many thousands of Londoner's, but even the good old Prius is not immune if you happen to be an Uber driver. TfL are set to ban any car licenced to Uber that is not a fully electric or plug in Hybrid by 2020.

And that ULEZ is only going to get larger. From April if your van or car produces too much pollution you will have to pay £24.00 a day to drive into central London. This is because the £12.50 for the ULEZ is going to be onto of the Congestion Charge.

But come 2021 it won't just effect central London, its a 24hr, 7 day a week £12.50 charge for any vehicle whose emissions are deemed to high for an area within the north and south circular roads.

For those thinking it is okay because you live outside the capital, what better way to make money? £12.50 per car per day at all times, and if you fail to pay it £160.00 fine is issued. Imagine how these will spread, It could easily apply to Norwich between the northern and souther bypass roads, as an example.

What is happening in the future is unlike anything ever that has befallen motorists, where at a Government level your reality new, perfectly good condition car is effectively taxed off the road.  Used car values will plummet as the rules get tighter and tighter and eventually, the sale of new petrol and diesel cars will cease (sad to be around 2050). Now that is rather a long way ahead, and if I am still here at 71 years of age I will see that come in, but it is what may happen between then and now, different governments, changes of plan, where there is money to be made from taxation/fines anything can happen so the goal posts might move faster than we think.

 

 

[OldBerkshireBoy]

Low emission zones will come to every town and city in time, it is another cash cow!

[KaptinKev]

On ‎19‎/‎03‎/‎2019 at 20:39, grendel said:

I seem to recall he tried that too.

Don't tell me, he either kept falling off his bike, got ridiculed for wearing spandex, or he had his bike pinched!

[grendel]

I seem to recall it was one of those pay as you go bikes he found abandoned at brundall

 

[KaptinKev]

2 hours ago, LondonRascal said:

Lovely NBN with the off topic tack

You're right, I was going to give my input on electric heating in houses, but we need this to go to another forum topic!

[Wussername]

You may not like what I am saying. Take it as you will.

WHERE do I find a forum that places a greater emphasis on Broadland matters. Broads, rivers, boats, local historians, history, our destiny and how we are able to shape our future.

We seem to my mind lost our way.

Andrew

[Paul]

Just Google "Norfolk Broads Forum", but then you knew that before you posted.

[LondonRascal]

1 minute ago, Wussername said:

WHERE do I find a forum that places a greater emphasis on Broadland matters. Broads, rivers, boats, local historians, history, our destiny and how we are able to shape our future. 

I'd say, right here. After all it is the people who use the Forum and add their input that makes it what it is, so will all the broads loving, river boat talking, history mulling people please come to the fore.. Cos' I like reading about that as much as anyone.

This thread however is just one tiny part of this Forum, but perhaps as things are not in 'full swing' yet in the boating season has attracted more interest and discussion that it might do in the summer.

[Mouldy]

10 minutes ago, Wussername said:

You may not like what I am saying. Take it as you will.

WHERE do I find a forum that places a greater emphasis on Broadland matters. Broads, rivers, boats, local historians, history, our destiny and how we are able to shape our future.

We seem to my mind lost our way.

Andrew

The thread has been posted in The Broadscot Lounge, an area of the Forum for 'non boat/Broads related topics' so personally, I don't see an issue with it.

Sorry . . . . . .  just saying.

[Wussername]

Regretfully it is not becoming a "tiny part of this forum". We need to recognise our core values and objectives. We need to concentrate on that which the forum has become renowned, established and recognised as a leading authority on Broadland matters.

Andrew

 

[ExSurveyor]

Two threads are not directly Broads related but are in The Broadscot Lounge,  the area of the Forum for general discussions.

By far this forum has the widest range of Broads related topics,  also the most active yet civilized members.

 

[ExSurveyor]

2 minutes ago, Wussername said:

Regretfully it is not becoming a "tiny part of this forum". We need to recognise our core values and objectives. We need to concentrate on that which the forum has become renowned, established and recognised as a leading authority on Broadland matters.

Andrew

 

Surely there is room for both,  non Broads related threads don't block Broads related posts.

As many threads are started by and continued,  as members want, 

Andrew,  what would you want to start a thread about ? (Sorry if that sounds abrupt but I can't think how else to phrase it )

 

[OldBerkshireBoy]

Every forum that I am a member of be it boats, cars, bikes plumbing or whatever has a "Lounge area" for non related threads.