Has The World Gone Mad.

[Chelsea14Ian]

Such sad news today from New Zealand. The senseless killing of so many people, many of which were young and old.Why would anyone want to commit such a random crime.These people were going about there business taking part in Friday prayers.My thoughts go out to those that were caught up in this tragic day.

[DAVIDH]

Yes the world has gone mad, but with regards to past terrorist events, it went mad years ago.  I can only surmise that there are so many people in the world who have never experienced the depths of despair of losing someone they love, due to whatever circumstance. If they had I am sure they would seriously not wish it on their worst enemy. I heard a lady in the NZ incident recall how she spoke to the wife of someone who had been shot and telling her to go to the hospital and wait for him there. I can only imagine the sheer terror this poor wife must have gone through as she made her way to the hospital not knowing if her life was about to fall apart at the seams.

[Malanka]

There’s only one word for this: 

 

WHY??? 

[Ray]

The hateful and hate filled bigots of this world are constantly whipped up by the media (mainstream and social) about who their "enemies" are and who is to blame for the life results of their own shortcomings. Being mainly posturing, macho, violent men who are not gifted at thinking they believe what they are told. Sadly it was ever thus.

--- ""the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders.
That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked,
and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the
country to danger. It works the same in any country."

Hermann Goering""

[DAVIDH]

2 hours ago, Ray said:

. Being mainly posturing, macho, violent men who are not gifted at thinking they believe what they are told

And think back over time, how many of the atrocities, wars, assassinations, etc were instigated by men. We (men) have the capacity for extreme bravery and loyalty but at the same time the demons seem to be buried away just waiting to be awakened. I ask myself how many wars would have been started (not reacted to) if women were more involved in the final decision. 

[vanessan]

10 hours ago, DAVIDH said:

I heard a lady in the NZ incident recall how she spoke to the wife of someone who had been shot and telling her to go to the hospital and wait for him there. 

I saw that interview a couple of times and thought how terrifying it must have been for that lady herself. It sounds as if she only just avoided being shot herself but managed to stay calm to help others. There are times when tragedy brings out the best in others. 

[Malanka]

Sorry David to disagree but women in power or women with power are just the same as men and in some instances infinitely more ruthless. Queen Elizabeth I, Victoria, Thatcher, Marie Curie to name a few. All ruthless in their own way. 

I used to instruct a self defense class for women ( up to 100 of em) believe me you didn’t want to fight those ladies. I’m proud to say ladies taught by me put two pervs in hospital prior to the pervs then being incarcerated. In one case in broad daylight on Oxford road in Manchester by a slim 18 yr old fashion design student.

Who would argue with a woman defending a child. Not me lol

 

 

M

[vanessan]

10 hours ago, DAVIDH said:

I can only surmise that there are so many people in the world who have never experienced the depths of despair of losing someone they love, due to whatever circumstance. If they had I am sure they would seriously not wish it on their worst enemy.

(Sorry to quote you again David, it’s just that what you say is so pertinent!)

These people are sociopaths. They are totally unable to feel what normal human beings do. I guess there must levels of sociopathy as there are in everything else and the perpetrators in NZ must be close to the top level. There is no reasoning with people like this and I am glad they caught the guys involved. I hope it won’t change NZ too much. I went there back in 2000 and thought it a wonderful, fairly laid back country. Christchurch was sedate and easy-going and, having suffered so badly through the earthquake some years back, it is so sad to now have this happen. 

 

[DAVIDH]

1 hour ago, Malanka said:

I used to instruct a self defense class for women ( up to 100 of em) believe me you didn’t want to fight those ladies. I’m proud to say ladies taught by me put two pervs in hospital prior to the pervs then being incarcerated. In one case in broad daylight on Oxford road in Manchester by a slim 18 yr old fashion design student.

Yes I agree but that's why I qualified my statement by saying "I ask myself how many wars would have been started (not reacted to) if women were more involved in the final decision. Defending your family is a moral high. Trying to destroy someone else's is the opposite. 

[Malanka]

Interesting viewpoint.

All I am saying is that women and men all have the capability to be ruthless or abusive in pursuit of their goals.  We see it more often in men as women have not yet achieved parity in all walks of life yet ( hopefully soon) In my personal experience I have been abused in work by a female boss, been subjected to persecution by another female boss. I have also taught women to fight if they choose to rather than acquiesce. All chose to learn to fight, I never had anyone leave over the choice I gave them. 

My point is this, given the right tools men and women seem in my experience to make the same choices so I’m afraid I don’t agree with the presupposition that women wouldn’t attack or start a war. I believe they would and have done so throughout history. 

The difference I have found is that men assume they can fight and most men simply can’t. Women don’t make that assumption and therefore listen and learn much more quickly than men in the same group. Then they can fight very well indeed. They may choose not to because they can in any given situation, but some choose to fight because they can as well.

So I do not accept that when all things are equal women make different choices. In my experience they simply don’t. 

M

[DAVIDH]

This has to be conjecture on both our parts, because as you say, in the main women have not got into the position to decide to start expansionist wars or to annihilate an entire race. I know there are exceptions to every rule but I just cannot envisage a scenario where a woman would have vigorously, ruthlessly and cold-heartedly set out to murder six million Jews as a dictator and his accomplices did in the last war (I am not Jewish by the way).

[MauriceMynah]

Post WW2 I can think of very few "expansionist wars" though the Falklands conflict does spring to mind.

[Regulo]

Crimea, Eastern Ukraine? Or was that "repossession"? 

[Malanka]

I don’t disagree with you but we’re not talking about the same thing really. Being abused by women at work is not conjecture on my part. I was merely by extension of the silly behavior suggesting that should there be female dictators or women with immense power and no ethical compass  they would do exactly what men have done in the past. 

The fact they haven’t is due to the historical patriarchy, I believe they could and in the right circumstances for them they would. After all a dictator and Stalin and Mao all had female companions. If their psychological mindset was so different we should ask ourselves how could they stand to be close to such monsters.

There are many historical precedents for war like women. There are also countless examples in nature of the aggressive and expansionist nature of females. Bees, wasps, termites, lions, tigers, and so on the list is extensive. 

Anyway a good debate .... 

M

[DAVIDH]

Sorry Malanka, did not mean to say your experiences with women at work were conjecture, just that as women were not the ones pulling the final levers in the darkest days of our history (in the main) we will never know what would have happened. 

[Malanka]

True. I’m normally a cup half full guy. I’m merely saying my experience says women can and have been to me as evil as some men have been to women for generations.

By extension then, take a leap and multiply that behavior to a national scale and all those folks I mentioned could ( but weren’t by happenstance of history) have been female. Remember some of the most effective SS interrogations were carried out by women. Palestine 1946. Paris after liberation? All places where women committed atrocities. 

In the UK we use female interrogators for special forces selection and where the culture of the interrogated would be most discombobulated by the presence of a woman. 

Women are in my opinion just as capable of pure evil as men. I say that as anyone who could do any of those things is not right in the head and men don’t have a monopoly on that. Rose west? The list is endless 

 

Martin 

[DAVIDH]

Fair point..... but i'm still right! (I am a man after all).

[Malanka]

He he

[Chelsea14Ian]

Not only, is what has happened in New Zealand very very sad.Here someone is killed of badly injured. It seems for no reason.Some gang related,others are completely random .I think everyone needs to try to put a stop to this senseless crime.Far from easy,but don't think we as a country can stand by.

[Ray]

I agree 100%, as you say there isn't an easy answer and I think even if every resource was thrown at it then it would still take a generation. 

Just a personal opinion with no particular political associations, I believe the so called "war on drugs" is not only a failure but a driving force behind criminality, gangs and violence. 

Much more resources for education, health and youth services and opportunities could transform our country. I realise this sound like a left wing manifesto and all of these things cost a huge amount of tax payers money.... BUT reducing today's problems would have a savings benefit and as for the politics, I'm strictly apolitical.. I don't trust a single one of them!

[MauriceMynah]

If all "Leisure drugs" were legalised and  taxed the crime rate would plummet, the exchequer would thrive and the police would have the manpower to try to sort out other crimes.   Discuss.

Tee he   

[Ray]

[ExSurveyor]

Sadly it seems that the madness has spread to Holland, 

[grendel]

sadly it is a small minority showing religious intolerance (and that comment can be viewed from both sides of the coin) that cause the whole of the rest of that religion to be viewed by the opposing religious intolerants as a target, the ones that suffer are not the intolerants that cause the problems, but those good people who are just caught between the intolerants on one side and the intolerants on the other side.

the above can be applied to just about any religion and its attitude to just about any other religion you wish to name.

in any religion there is a wide difference between those that practice the religion as part of their day to day lives, and the extremists that use religious reasons to go out and attack others.

I feel sorrow for all the victims of religious intolerance, no matter what race or religion.

[MauriceMynah]

49 minutes ago, grendel said:

and the extremists that use religious reasons to go out and attack others.

I agree completely though would say "using religion as an excuse". These cowards use religion as some sort of shield to hide behind. It is my belief that no true religion supports violence towards other people.