River Bure

[WasJono]

Hello Folks

Please help settle a disagreement, shall we say.

We returned from our wonderful holiday at Box End cottage last Sunday and whilst there I asked Caro, the owner, l about the pronunciation of River Bure. 

This is all Robins fault. I was perfectly happy with my own pronunciation from 1965 of "Burr" and then Robin comes up with Bure as in "pure".

Carol, whoo has lived in Horning over 20 years confirmed Robins pronunciation.

A few days later following a meal at the Ferry we were chatting about the days when the "ferry" ran across the river so I looked up its history only to find this:

"Horning is situated on the River Bure (pronounced locally "Burr") between Wroxham and Ludham. A ferry plied across the river for more than 1,000 years."

Anymore views on this before moving on to St Olaves?

 

J

[oldgregg]

You'll find both pronunciations in use around these parts I think, but an old Norfolk boy is probably less likely to rhyme it with 'pure' but the accent does vary - A Norwich accent and a Norfolk accent are not the same, for instance.

[Smoggy]

The local version may change with which part of the river, the river nene is pronounced nen above thrapston bridge and neen below.

[grendel]

a bit like the stour in Kent, depending where upon it you live it can be the stoor - or elsewhere the stower

[Vaughan]

Posh holidaymakers up from London call it the Bure (like pure) cos they know how to talk English like how it ought to be spoke.

The Norfolk dialect would certainly call it the Burr. It doesn't quite sound like that but I can't think how to spell it phonetically!

There is also a dispute about Potter Hey-am or Potter High-am. It is generally held that the bridge is at Potter High-am (in the Norfolk dialect) but in Norwich (with its own dialect) is a road called Hey-am Street. The spelling is the same.

[oldgregg]

4 minutes ago, Vaughan said:

but in Norwich (with its own dialect) is a road called Hey-am Street.

Also sometimes known simply as 'Ham' street - As with Potter Ham 

Yes I'd go with Burr, but as you say they're not saying it exactly like that.

[ChrisB]

15 minutes ago, Vaughan said:

Posh holidaymakers up from London call it the Bure (like pure) cos they know how to talk English like how it ought to be spoke.

The Norfolk dialect would certainly call it the Burr. It doesn't quite sound like that but I can't think how to spell it phonetically!

There is also a dispute about Potter Hey-am or Potter High-am. It is generally held that the bridge is at Potter High-am (in the Norfolk dialect) but in Norwich (with its own dialect) is a road called Hey-am Street. The spelling is the same.

 

10 minutes ago, oldgregg said:

Also sometimes known simply as 'Ham' street - As with Potter Ham 

Yes I'd go with Burr, but as you say they're not saying it exactly like that.

There is a old indiginous species in our Village who's family were originally from Potter and he does not even pronounce the "H" it comes out something like

"Potterarm" all one word!

I think that in the past there was a laziness of speech that is the root of the dialect and the unusual pronounciation of many place names.

[VetChugger]

And I seem to hear it as "Parrrtrum"!

[vanessan]

I’ve always been told by a friend from Norfolk that it is Po’erham - or something like that anyway!

[WasJono]

We just call it Lathams!

Simples!!

[oldgregg]

3 minutes ago, Jono said:

We just call it Lathams!

Simples!!

I've heard people pronounce that at least three different ways, though!

[WasJono]

All right. Not so simples. My ribs are sore!!

[Poppy]

1 hour ago, oldgregg said:

I've heard people pronounce that at least three different ways, though!

Posh holidaymakers up from London call it La Thaams.

[Cockatoo]

And let's not mention Happisburgh :-)

Sent from the Norfolk Broads Network mobile app

[Vaughan]

3 minutes ago, SteveDuk said:

And let's not mention Happisburgh :-)

Or Wymondham. . . . .or Stiffkey.

[JennyMorgan]

Po'er Haam and Berr, simples!

[JennyMorgan]

One of the Norwich classics is Lower Goat Lane, LarGoo Lane, with a suitably sing-song rendition.

[oldgregg]

3 hours ago, Poppy said:

Posh holidaymakers up from London call it La Thaams.

Yeah I've heard that one, Lath-hams is another. Round these parts it's Lay-thums.

[Broads01]

I said Ack-le for many years until I found out it's pronounced Ay-cul. Isn't it Saint Olives and not Saint Oh-lavs? 

[oldgregg]

1 minute ago, Broads01 said:

I said Ack-le for many years until I found out it's pronounced Ay-cul. Isn't it Saint Olives and not Saint Oh-lavs? 

It depends... But yeah mostly sort of 'Saint Ollavs'

[TheQ]

17 hours ago, Vaughan said:

Posh holidaymakers up from London call it the Bure (like pure) cos they know how to talk English like how it ought to be spoke.

The Norfolk dialect would certainly call it the Burr. It doesn't quite sound like that but I can't think how to spell it phonetically!

There is also a dispute about Potter Hey-am or Potter High-am. It is generally held that the bridge is at Potter High-am (in the Norfolk dialect) but in Norwich (with its own dialect) is a road called Hey-am Street. The spelling is the same.

Should I at this point, point out that the medieval bridge is not in Potter Heigham... it's in Potter FALGATE on the north side and Repps the South Side, technically Potter Heigham is the other side of the Yarmouth and North Norfolk Railway (AKA  the A149) over where the church is.

Similarly what is now known as Sutton broad is actually Stalham Broad, as Sutton is again over the A149 both old and new and a fair way over toward the church..

I should say that's from a map of over 200 years old. (with added information about railways and the A149 from more modern maps..)

[expilot]

1 hour ago, TheQ said:

Should I at this point, point out that the medieval bridge is not in Potter Heigham... it's in Potter FALGATE on the north side and Repps the South Side, technically Potter Heigham is the other side of the Yarmouth and North Norfolk Railway (AKA  the A149) over where the church is.

Similarly what is now known as Sutton broad is actually Stalham Broad, as Sutton is again over the A149 both old and new and a fair way over toward the church..

I should say that's from a map of over 200 years old. (with added information about railways and the A149 from more modern maps..)

If that bridge is, technically, in Potter "Falgate" on the North side, then, technically, the South side is in Bastwick, a civil parish only relatively recently joined with Repps to become Repps With Bastwick.

Incidentally, the civil parish is enormous and stretches right over to Hickling - way beyond the village centre.  I would be interested to be referred to the map from which TheQ derives his information.  I am blowed if I can find such a location on any of my maps.

[Timbo]

36 minutes ago, expilot said:

I would be interested to be referred to the map from which TheQ derives his information

Here you go Expilot. http://www.historic-maps.norfolk.gov.uk/ . Hours of fun tracing history through cartography here. There are several maps missing from the collection and of all places it is the National Library of Scotland that you have to go to in order to find them. https://maps.nls.uk/. There is also a good collection of maps to be found in the British Library too! http://www.bl.uk/onlinegallery/onlineex/maps/uk/?_ga=2.190779179.106008836.1555404253-1065440743.1554227647

The British Library also has a vast quantity of books, images, prints, documents, paintings and drawings of the Broads! 
Hope this helps? 

Edited to add https://www.oldmapsonline.org which will help you trace any maps that are hard to find.

I'm currently researching a fragrance house and through the mapping data managed to trace someone from 1799 right down to their street address, even to details of what their home was made of, the state of repair, what their neighbours did for a living etc via Insurance Maps of the time.

[TheQ]

Fayden's  1795 map of Norfolk which is on line now, I've got an old reprint at home..Just noticed it's Heigham Furlgate not Potter Falgate ( the problems of going from memory)

http://fadensmapofnorfolk.co.uk/mapBrowser.asp?TileId=35&XCoord=571&YCoord=233&Zoom=1

if you look at the map it would show that while it's Furlgate north of the river it's Repps one side and Bastwick the other side of the road the bridge being on the dividing line.

[marshman]

Not sure as though I would place much reliance on a 1795 map, to be honest!! Don't think in those days, cartographers got out much , or indeed had a lot of information to which they could refer, and my suspicion is that that whilst one map might call it something, others might call it something else!! Who checked, for example that the information was correct? Probably no one and I would personally would prefer to see at least 2/3 other sources giving that information, before I took it as gospel.