Navigation At Night

[HemsbyPie]

Had a quick browse of the bylaws this afternoon but couldn’t find anything about navigation at night. Can anyone point me in the right direction of the rules?

[JawsOrca]

https://www.broads-authority.gov.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0008/399230/Navigation_Byelaws_1995-1.pdf It's just the application of light. Page 20 onwards.

[HemsbyPie]

Many thanks - so boats are allowed to travel at night as long as they have correct lighting?

[JawsOrca]

Yes I believe it's as simple as that although I think the way the hireboats get around it is because (private at least) marine insurance states that insurance is only applicable if adhering to local byelaws, thus they don't have the correct lighting therefore there is no insurance to travel at night.. A bit of a roundabout way but I guess it works.. (Bizarre bit in the byelaws is there's no requirement to display an all round anchor light which clearly colregs does have but I guess that was done for the hireboats).

[JawsOrca]

I probably should say that (you) should check that there's no restrictions on your insurance, I understand some policies have restrictions. I know mine is fine and has full cover. 

[Meantime]

Looking at a leading boat hire companies terms and conditions it states, "You must observe the Navigation Authority's byelaws, including in particular, the rule that you must not navigate after sunset, or before dawn" In reality there is no such rule in the byelaws. The rules simply state what lights must be used when navigating after sunset and before sunrise. I guess by not having the correct navigation lights that implies you cannot navigate at night.

However; there is a big bag of worms there. The BA byelaws state that the lights prescribed in the byelaws should also be exhibited between sunrise and sunset in restricted visibility, which is defined as " any condition in which visibility is restricted by fog, mist, falling snow, heavy rain storms, sand storms, smoke or similar causes" So if hire boats do not have navigation lights to prevent their movement between sunset to sunrise, they should also not move during the day during restricted visibility! Since a heavy rain storm, or snow could occur at very short notice whilst cruising how are they meant to obey the byelaws without navigation lights being fitted?

The hire yards could, and should simply make it a condition of the terms of hire that you cannot navigate after dark, however they appear to have referred to a non existent BA byelaw to restrict night navigation instead!

I also seem to remember at least one Barnes Brinkcraft hire boat Brinks Omega, fitted with navigation lights! A quick scan of their hire terms and FAQs reveals nothing about not navigating at night!

 

[Meantime]

Norfolk Broads Direct terms and conditions quite correctly make it a condition of hire stating:

On no account may you: (b) cruise after dark (your boat is not equipped or insured for night navigation)

[HemsbyPie]

So just to be clear: 

 

- hire boats are not allowed to navigate at night due to lack of lights, insurance and contract (in most instances)

- private boats can travel at night with appropriate lights dependant on weather conditions.

 

is that correct? 

[JennyMorgan]

11 minutes ago, HemsbyPie said:

So just to be clear: 

 

- hire boats are not allowed to navigate at night due to lack of lights, insurance and contract (in most instances)

- private boats can travel at night with appropriate lights dependant on weather conditions.

 

is that correct? 

Yes, more or less, not sure that weather conditions come into it though. However,  not with headlights or searchlights as under the regs they are likely to confuse, annoy and to create problems for other users, as well as being unnecessary! I forget the exact wording but that's the general guist of things.

[Meantime]

19 minutes ago, HemsbyPie said:

So just to be clear: 

 

- hire boats are not allowed to navigate at night due to lack of lights, insurance and contract (in most instances)

- private boats can travel at night with appropriate lights dependant on weather conditions.

 

is that correct? 

Mostly correct. The byelaws make NO distinction between a hire or private vessel. They state that a master of a vessel should display certain lights based upon the size of the vessel. Generally the bigger the vessel the greater the number and brighter the lights need to be. They define a master as:

"in relation to a vessel means any person whether the owner, master, hirer or other person lawfully or unlawfully having or taking command or charge or management of the vessel for the time being."

That means that anyone with the correct lights can navigate at night. It is therefore dangerous for a hire company to rely on a reference to the byelaws to forbid a hirer from navigating at night. If they bought along their own lights as they do on hired sailboats in the three rivers race, they would be within the byelaws.

The bit about the weather again applies to all masters and applies during the hours of daylight, sunrise to sunset. Lights should be used at night anyway, so the weather aspect only applies during the day.

In my opinion hiring a boat without navigation lights is very similar to hiring a rental car where the hire company has disabled the fog lights. The moment the highway code dictated you needed to turn your fog lights on you would need to pull over and stop the car to stay within the law!!!! As ever the Byelaws are very poorly written and not fit for purpose. Can you imagine a ranger, or the BA's solicitor in court trying to explain the legal definition of heavy rain? The highway code states you should use fog lights when visibility reduces to less than 100 metres which is far more quantifiable.

Again in my opinion the hire companies should fit navigation lights to all their boats to allow the hirers to comply with the need to turn them on during the day when there is restricted visibility. If they don't want their boats moving of a night time, then this should be restricted purely and simply by their own terms and conditions of hire. This should be backed up with reminders at the helm and getting the hirer to sign a document stating they understand the condition and that also they acknowledge that the hire companies insurance does not cover them to navigate at night.

[Meantime]

23 minutes ago, JennyMorgan said:

Yes, more or less, not sure that weather conditions come into it though. However,  not with headlights or searchlights as under the regs they are likely to confuse, annoy and to create problems for other users, as well as being unnecessary! I forget the exact wording but that's the general guist of things.

(b) The Byelaws concerning lights shall be complied with from sunset to sunrise, and during such times no other lights shall be exhibited, except such lights as cannot be mistaken for the lights specified in these Byelaws or as do not impair their visibility or distinctive character, or interfere with the keeping of a proper look out or with the safe navigation of any other vessel.
 

[Smoggy]

5 minutes ago, EastCoastIPA said:

Can you imagine a ranger, or the BA's solicitor in court trying to explain the legal definition of heavy rain?

Yes!

"I put it to you that it was pi**ing down with rain, not merely "dribbling like an old mans bladder after half a stella" as you state in your defence Mr. Griff"

 

I have a bad imagination.......

[MauriceMynah]

13 minutes ago, JennyMorgan said:

However,  not with headlights or searchlights as under the regs they are likely to confuse, annoy and to create problems for other users, as well as being unnecessary!

Oh dear, here we go again. What sort of light if not a headlight/searchlight would you (or the broads regs) recommend for seeing the channel markers on Hickling or the reach approaching Yarmouth on a non moonlight night?

Would I be correct in thinking that the lighting rules in the broads regs were not originally written to apply to the broads alone but are just taken from standard marine lighting regs at sea?

At sea, the point about confusing, annoying and creating problems is appropriate along with the fact that on open water they serve no purpose. Cruising down a tree lined narrow  river without the benefit of any moonlight is a rather different proposition. 

[Meantime]

3 minutes ago, MauriceMynah said:

Oh dear, here we go again. What sort of light if not a headlight/searchlight would you (or the broads regs) recommend for seeing the channel markers on Hickling or the reach approaching Yarmouth on a non moonlight night?

Would I be correct in thinking that the lighting rules in the broads regs were not originally written to apply to the broads alone but are just taken from standard marine lighting regs at sea?

At sea, the point about confusing, annoying and creating problems is appropriate along with the fact that on open water they serve no purpose. Cruising down a tree lined narrow  river without the benefit of any moonlight is a rather different proposition. 

MM the pertinent bit in the byelaw is as follows,

or interfere with the keeping of a proper look out or with the safe navigation of any other vessel.

So anything bright enough for you to see straight ahead is more than likely going to blind anyone coming towards you unless they also blind you with their own illegal bright light. Then you both cannot see where you're going. The answer I'm afraid is good night sight and a speed appropriate to how far ahead you can see. For other places where channel markers are concerned, then either don't navigate, or use other electronic aids that map a course for you. My rather cheap Garmin eTrex has a track straight down the centre of Breydon which I can display and if followed on max resolution would keep me within the channel. It is however only ever used as a backup to the mark one eyeball.

[Cockatoo]

What you will find is that a lot of riverside properties have got security/floodlights that point at the river totally destroying your night vision.

[JennyMorgan]

8 minutes ago, MauriceMynah said:

Oh dear, here we go again. What sort of light if not a headlight/searchlight would you (or the broads regs) recommend for seeing the channel markers on Hickling or the reach approaching Yarmouth on a non moonlight night?

Would I be correct in thinking that the lighting rules in the broads regs were not originally written to apply to the broads alone but are just taken from standard marine lighting regs at sea?

At sea, the point about confusing, annoying and creating problems is appropriate along with the fact that on open water they serve no purpose. Cruising down a tree lined narrow  river without the benefit of any moonlight is a rather different proposition. 

Eyes can be useful! 😉

[Cockatoo]

1 minute ago, EastCoastIPA said:

 My rather cheap Garmin eTrex has a track straight down the centre of Breydon which I can display and if followed on max resolution would keep me within the channel. It is however only ever used as a backup to the mark one eyeball.

I've got the Breydon posts plotted in Viewranger. If anyone want them I think I can export them as route.

[TheQ]

Ranger to hire boater you are being prosecuted for not moving from the 24hour mooring within 24 hours. Hire boater movers off..

Ranger to hire boater you are being prosecuted for moving your boat when it's heavy rain..

The nav regs are based on the sea going regs but are Not the same..

I find any torch or light coming the other way on a night whether moonlit or not destroys your night vision. I have quite happly sailed the 3 Rivers Race  on a no moonlight night without hitting anything..

[JennyMorgan]

2 minutes ago, SteveDuk said:

What you will find is that a lot of riverside properties have got security/floodlights that point at the river totally destroying your night vision.

The Authority would do well to police those blasted lights.

[Cockatoo]

4 minutes ago, JennyMorgan said:

The Authority would do well to police those blasted lights.

Is it in their remit though, or would it be Broadsbeat's job?

 

[Meantime]

4 minutes ago, JennyMorgan said:

The Authority would do well to police those blasted lights.

Agreed, especially in Wroxham / Hoveton

8 minutes ago, SteveDuk said:

What you will find is that a lot of riverside properties have got security/floodlights that point at the river totally destroying your night vision.

The navigation byelaws apply to The Broads Navigation area and are not only restricted to masters of vessels. They equally apply to property owners within the navigation area.

[Meantime]

1 minute ago, SteveDuk said:

Is it in their remit though, or would it be Broadsbeat's job?

 

Taken from their website

These Navigation Byelaws are in force throughout the Broads Authority navigation area and are the principal code of navigational conduct in the Broads. They are based on the International Rules for Preventing Collisions at Sea with amendments which reflect conditions of Broads navigation.

The byelaws also contain measures relating to public moorings, obstructions, navigation by minors, conduct following an incident, navigating under the influence, firearms and weapons in the navigation area, and safe speed and navigating with care.

Please be aware that subsequent legislation has amended the effect of the Broads Authority Vessel Registration Byelaws 1997. Section 11 of the Broads Authority Act 2009 provides as follows:

“The Broads Authority Vessel Registration Byelaws 1997 (other than byelaws 23 and 28) shall be deemed to have been made under this section, and shall have effect as though the references in those byelaws to the “navigation area” included adjacent waters.”

[Cockatoo]

8 minutes ago, TheQ said:

Ranger to hire boater you are being prosecuted for not moving from the 24hour mooring within 24 hours. Hire boater movers off..

Hire boater to Ranger: I can't it's raining too hard/ foggy etc.

i.e lawful excuse

[expilot]

They already do, JM.  Last year a number of riverside bungalow owners were required by the BA ranger to turn off their lights.  The lights that were required to be turned off because they constituted  a "hazard to navigation", were the lounge/dining room lights!

I did wonder at the time, whether said BA Ranger had also called Lathams' and Herbert Woods' management teams requiring them to switch off their exterior lighting.

[HemsbyPie]

Thanks all for the response - was under the impression you were not allowed to travel at night, learn something new every day!!