Jump to content
  • Announcements

    Welcome! New around here? Take a look at the New Members' Guide for some pointers.

    Not a member yet? Sign up here and you can soon be chatting away with friends old and new..

    Check out our Handy Information section if you're after something quickly!

  • If you would like to support the forum, please consider visiting the forum shop, where you can purchase such items as NBN Burgees, Window Stickers, or even a custom Limited Edition Wooden Throttle Control Knob

    Forum Shop

Recommended Posts

38 minutes ago, Coryton said:

I would expect Brexit uncertainty has caused more than a few people to decide this year isn't the time to have their holiday in the UK.

Yeah, it will have done. If you were coming from Germany, the Netherlands etc you'd wait and see what the impact is.

It's the same we're seeing in reverse here in the UK and why Thomas Cook are on the brink again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Coryton said:

Although that's probably not true for overseas visitors.

When looking at a holiday abroad I think people are generally somewhat fickle. If there is no strong reason to go to a particular country, why go somewhere with even a small risk of the holiday being spoilt? There's lots of countries to choose from, and you can always go another year.

I would expect Brexit uncertainty has caused more than a few people to decide this year isn't the time to have their holiday in the UK.

Brexit has been rolling on for several years now. It hasn't seen a significant decrease in numbers of over seas visitors for the last couple of years.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, Cal said:

Brexit has been rolling on for several years now. It hasn't seen a significant decrease in numbers of over seas visitors for the last couple of years.

But in previous years since the referendum we were still in the EU with business as usual - and in fact given that the pound has dropped relative to the Euro it was actually a good time to visit the UK.

This year is different because we were supposed to be out by the Summer, and it was looking quite possible this would be without the benefit of a transition period. So - possibly - this summer could have been awkward for foreign tourists visiting the UK,and as I argued above I don't think it takes much to put someone off a holiday in a particular country.

Now of course we are still in the EU at least for the summer, but the extension to October was only agreed in April and anyone booking a summer holiday before then might well have decided the safest bet was to stay away from the UK.

I suppose it depends how many people tend to book their summer holiday that early.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi,

I keep a spreadsheet monitoring the bookings of three hirefleets for the past 4/5 years and the biggest change I have noticed this year isn't so much fall in bookings (although they are), its that the school holiday periods are significantly lower. In the past the school holidays were some of the first periods to be booked and you could almost guarantee that the bulk of a fleet if not all would out. Bookings for August are only just starting to pick up. One fleet with 22 boats has only 9 boats out for late August vs double that for a week in September. On a positive note bookings for May are up on last year and September is looking promising. What is worrying for the yards will be the reduction in revenue from the high season (upto double off peak) and the discounting taking place. It would certainly appear that family groups are holding back this year on a scale I have never seen before, not sure whether its down to Brexit/the weather or high season rates (all of the above) as bookings outside of peak are still solid for the yards I have reviewed.

 

Neil

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I do think the discounts are a big part of it. Why book a long way in advance (and pay full price) when you'll be able to able to pick something up for 30, 40 or even 50% discount nearer the time.

It's incredibly short-term thinking, and the end result is the business sells nothing at full price, can't plan their resources, has boats sitting in the yard all season and doesn't have cash in the bank over the winter to pay the wages, build new boats etc.

But of course they know best.

And yet the biggest fleet doesn't do it and their fleet is often booked solid, particularly the newer stuff.

I don't think it's rocket science, is it?

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, CambridgeCabby said:

It seems to me the the impending Brexit is being blamed for countless failings , not that many months ago everything was the fault of the EEC, economies change , habits change.

Brexit was certainly a factor in us changing our plans this year.  Since 2007, we have been going to Southern France for two weeks at the end of June every year.  We had already booked for this year, even before buying our share in Moonlight Shadow, however continued uncertainty regarding our original exit date in March and the possibility of leaving the EU without a deal at the end of June caused us to rethink our plans back in January, when we were able to minimise our losses.

According to the media, leaving without a deal would mean that we would potentially need a green card for our car insurance, require an additional visitor permit and international driving licence, the EHIC cards would become invalid and the Pet Passport scheme would be under review.  

We had been advised by Eurocamp that we would need to have a rabies jab for our dog, in addition to the passport which was still current, who accompanies us on our holidays and that would need to be followed a month later by a blood test to prove the effectiveness of the injection at the cost of circa £150.

We decided that it would make more sense to wait until we have left and the full implications are known before travelling to Europe again and make full use of our weeks on MS.

That was, of course, until we bought our own boat a few weeks ago, which further complicates future holiday arrangements.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, oldgregg said:

I do think the discounts are a big part of it. Why book a long way in advance (and pay full price) when you'll be able to able to pick something up for 30, 40 or even 50% discount nearer the time.

It's incredibly short-term thinking, and the end result is the business sells nothing at full price, can't plan their resources, has boats sitting in the yard all season and doesn't have cash in the bank over the winter to pay the wages, build new boats etc.

But of course they know best.

And yet the biggest fleet doesn't do it and their fleet is often booked solid, particularly the newer stuff.

I don't think it's rocket science, is it?

Of course sometimes businesses have to resort to short-term thinking because if they don't, there won't be a long term for them at all because there are bills to be paid and they need cash flow no matter how they get it.

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The trouble is in that sector customers will come to expect it and then everyone just ignores your pricelist for the next few years and waits for the "wolf at the door" sale.

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I regularly see discounts advertised on Hoseasons for Bridgecraft, Summercraft, Brooms, Silverline and on occasions Barnes Brinkcraft. (Bridgecraft have offers now on their boats for dates before the school holidays) They are not usually applied to the peak season, though I have seen them for Easter, Spring Bank and the October Half Term, so I'm afraid the overseas market tactics are already being practiced here. Of course, the Broads are not mass market so word hasn't got out to prospective holidaymakers across the board yet.

Richardsons do of course discount but not for late bookings - their loyalty scheme can lead to a hefty reduction, which is why they won't offer a blanket discount. Perhaps this is better but either way, boats are not going out at full price.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is it just me that has noticed that only since Ferry have new owners that this practice of discounts has started?

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I received a 25% last minute discount four years ago,so I guess they have always  had a discount policy. But I dont remember it ever being anythink like it is now. No idea who the new owners are, are they new to the boat hiring business??

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The new owners currently run Horning Marina and the old NBYCo yard next to the New Inn - no shortage of money as they are part of the Cator family who own almost  the whole of the "south" side of the Bure from Wroxham Broad down to Fleet Dyke - in fact probably one of the largest landowners in the area!!!!

They clearly take the view that a boat not out on the water can earn nothing - why does anyone expect the boat hire business to be any different? It was once said that no two people on a plane actually paid the same price so why should  the boat hire business be any different to say, the holiday cottage industry, where discounting is rife?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, oldgregg said:

The trouble is in that sector customers will come to expect it and then everyone just ignores your pricelist for the next few years and waits for the "wolf at the door" sale.

Yes.

A similar thing has been playing out over the last few years in the model railway industry.

As well as the practical aspect (why buy at full price when it will come down later?) there's the psychological aspect where people think that the lowest price must be the 'true' price, and therefore the full price must be a rip-off.

17 minutes ago, marshman said:

They clearly take the view that a boat not out on the water can earn nothing - why does anyone expect the boat hire business to be any different? It was once said that no two people on a plane actually paid the same price so why should  the boat hire business be any different to say, the holiday cottage industry, where discounting is rife?

But air fares generally increase as the plane fills up, with maybe big discounts at the last minute if the plane isn't full.

That's different from people booking ahead of time paying full whack and the discounts only being available to those who book late.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
40 minutes ago, andyg said:

I received a 25% last minute discount four years ago,so I guess they have always  had a discount policy. But I dont remember it ever being anythink like it is now. No idea who the new owners are, are they new to the boat hiring business??

 

Um! Er! Yep they might be the new boys on the block.

Correct me if I am wrong but they may be farmers, land owners.

A bit of diversification...as you do.

Farmers are renowned for dealing. Asking an unrealistic price to be negotiated for the benefit of the seller and the buyer. An unknown business practice for the likes of Blake's and Hoseasons who to some extent, some would say to a great extent controlled the price structure of the hiring industry. The likes of Laker airways, Ryanair and Easy Jet had no such restrictions. To the disadvantage of the smaller boat yards. Was this a contributory factor to their demise. Perhaps they were unable to compete against the discount holiday industry. 

The fear of loss, greed for gain syndrome.

With boats sitting on their moorings for weeks on end , unable to be hired because of a draconian contractual agreement with an agent the smaller boat yards, the family boat yards, were between a rock and a hard place. 

I believe, please correct me if I am wrong, that this has been a contributory factor, to the loss of the family boatyard. 

However the web has provided a life line for the smaller boat yard. I just hope that it is not too late.

Wussername.

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, it appears people are definitely booking now. I'm pleased to say that according to my rough and ready Hoseasons stats, availability for the school holiday period has halved in the last 2 weeks, to such an extent that there are now less boats available now for hire than there were this time last year. People are still holidaying, but leaving it much closer to departure to book. 

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Correct - they may be farmers as I pointed out but they also own Horning Marina opposite the Swan and the old NBYCO yard in Horning Street. So hardly new boys on the block!!!

The other point you should not discount is that Ferry do seem to do a lot of short breaks - that frees up availability at times but as they cost more on a day to day basis, may be more effective at getting to the bottom line!

But I doubt at the end of the year, it will have been seen to be a good year overall - too late starting because of Easter, indifferent weather at times, uncertainty in the economy and a flat, to declining housing market. None of these good for bookings!!

 But Ferry in particular, have no shortage of demand for marina berths, both sides of the river - and they have a few now!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Genuine question MM, wouldn't "uncertainty in the economy" encourage British holiday makers to stay in this country instead of abroad? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, MauriceMynah said:

Genuine question MM, wouldn't "uncertainty in the economy" encourage British holiday makers to stay in this country instead of abroad? 

But possibly balanced out by losing out on visitors from overseas.

And if uncertainty in the economy means that someone fears for their job, they might decide to do something less expensive than boating for their holiday, or indeed not go away at all.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, Coryton said:

But possibly balanced out by losing out on visitors from overseas.

And if uncertainty in the economy means that someone fears for their job, they might decide to do something less expensive than boating for their holiday, or indeed not go away at all.

I am guessing that's the reason for the late bookings. People know they still have a job, therefore commit the money. I know many holidaymakers come from overseas, and the Brexit thing is putting some off, but there is currently a big draw also, which is the decline in the £ against the Euro. It makes things cheaper over here for them. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, DAVIDH said:

I am guessing that's the reason for the late bookings. People know they still have a job, therefore commit the money. I know many holidaymakers come from overseas, and the Brexit thing is putting some off, but there is currently a big draw also, which is the decline in the £ against the Euro. It makes things cheaper over here for them. 

There is that and also the fact that good weather is everything. Had the bad weather of the first half of June continued I think the number of last minute bookings would have been far fewer. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 25/06/2019 at 09:37, oldgregg said:
Quite right! This year my weeks are May and July. Equivalent hire cost would have been £2500. :51_scream:
I will have spent a bit more in fuel than you, but covered a lot of miles.

 


I got round to tallying up the costs of Thunder since we bought a share in 2011.

Including the purchase price of our two week share and allowing for 19 weeks afloat they have cost us £580 per week plus fuel and pumpouts. Excluding the purchase price (and realistically I reckon I wouldn’t lose much on a sale) the price falls to £400 a week.

I’m taking that.


Sent from my iPhone using Norfolk Broads Network

 

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And she certainly looked good and fine when I saw her on Friday/Saturday last.

all in all your costs are half or even less than hiring and in a much better appointed craft 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • NBN Mobile App

    Want to use NBN when you're out and about?

    Get our mobile app for Android and iOS!

    Get it on Google Play

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

For details of our Guidelines, please take a look at the Terms of Use here.