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Homophobe? Don't Book With Us!


Vaughan

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ah - another mad cat lady  Man, I used to have 8 cats (down to 4 now through natural causes (old age - the oldest was about 26 years))

I think this is not so much a case of publicising their own personal beliefs (well of course that is how the EDP portray it) but realising that their advertising was unconciously discriminating against racial and gender minorities, and putting that right. - the comment in the EDP about putting all of the advertising pictures on the board room table and only 1 containing a person of non white ethnic origin. fair play to the company for the realisation and for putting this right, but the only ones really making an issue of it are the EDP, by branding it as 'newsworthy'.

Of course any travel company is going to leap at any opening offered by newspaper publicity, its free advertising, so why not make the most of it.

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17 minutes ago, grendel said:

ah - another mad cat lady  Man, I used to have 8 cats (down to 4 now through natural causes (old age - the oldest was about 26 years))

I think this is not so much a case of publicising their own personal beliefs (well of course that is how the EDP portray it) but realising that their advertising was unconciously discriminating against racial and gender minorities, and putting that right. - the comment in the EDP about putting all of the advertising pictures on the board room table and only 1 containing a person of non white ethnic origin. fair play to the company for the realisation and for putting this right, but the only ones really making an issue of it are the EDP, by branding it as 'newsworthy'.

Of course any travel company is going to leap at any opening offered by newspaper publicity, its free advertising, so why not make the most of it.

Most of that I can agree with, however it's the direct quote that they are banning homophobes and racists that the more I think about it actually annoys. I wondered if that had been twisted by the EDP, but there is a video on the EDP site of Mr Altham pretty much repeating those words.

Firstly how can they know if such a person was to make a booking online, or even over the phone, unless they announce themselves as a racist? However secondly what's their policy on the perpetrators of domestic violence? Thieves? People who drink and drive? people who belong to the English Defence League?

If you read the T&Cs on their website, which I have, it says they will refuse to hand over the boat if the "unreasonable behaviour of anyone in your party is likely to cause offence to other guests, to members of staff or to neighbours. And that is as inclusive as they need to be on the subject, without some spokesperson making a separate case for homophobes or racists, or any other sector of society.

The more you think about it, the more it is impossible for them to police as a policy, yet the statement has been made and it is not just the EDP twisting the story.

By all means advertise inclusive holidays that makes good business sense, but too be honest the other statements are sensationalism and cannot be upheld anyway.

 

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Across the world extreme views are proliferating towards intolerence in a way not seen since the 1930s. Any and every effort to counteract the idea that it OK to to negatively discriminate against any group is to be welcomed with open arms.

It matters not at all whether any strong attempt is made to police the policy what matters is that here is a large respected business that says bigotry is not OK and they want no part of it.

Once you give people permission to hate a group you unleash hell on that group. Never underestimate the potential for hate among those who are easy to persuade!

Well done Hoseasons!

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7 hours ago, Vaughan said:

 

How can they possibly refuse a customer on the grounds of a personal opinion, if that opinion has probably never even been expressed? What will be next? We will only hire boats to members of the Liberal Party? Or Guardian readers?

 

 

Because it is not an opinion. Being a member of the Liberal Party or reading the Guardian is a choice. Being GAY is not, believe me I know and yes I have been verbally abused for being Gay whist on the Broads while eating at a restaurant in Wroxham.

I'm sorry but some of the comments in the thread I find personally offensive, mainly stated out ignorance but if you have been called names in the street or spent a night in hospital due to GAY bashing as I have done you may see the World we live in, in a different light.

Anyway cheers from my Civil partner, soulmate, lover and I!

Dk @ Ranworth.

Fred 

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25 minutes ago, Poppy said:

Disappointed ( but not really surprised ) by the reaction of many on this thread.

perhaps it's best that they stay away . Bigots aren't welcome here - or anywhere in my view..

Must admit I hadn't read bigotry in most of the posts and certainly didn't intend any in mine, I actually get more offended by business that aligns itself with football, as though we all pray at this same alter . What people as individuals believe in is up to them, and unless it is threatening to those that don't agree with them, then really why should it be anybody else's business.

 

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I'm think the point of this article has been missed by a mile by many...

Clearly no one is a mind reader and there are indeed laws that stop companies from refusing offering services based on views/beliefs etc.. the same laws which thankfully add some protection the other way (although sadly there are many out there that don't think these laws apply to them - another topic!), so of course they aren't going enforce this. The point of this article is clearly stating that if you hold such views then your business isn't welcome, quite rightly so of course. Personally I think more companies should do this and in a way some do (somewhat less discretely) by changing logos to the rainbow flag during the Pride months etc etc I think any customer should be proud (no pun intended) to deal with companies who do see themselves as tolerant of minorities.

As I mentioned above, despite there being laws, companies can still discriminate and (having worked in the travel industry for some years) the travel industry is one where it's difficult for the LGBT+ community to find safe suitable accommodation, considering there is still such intolerance/phobia and of course contries where it's still illegal to even be one such human.

It's very difficult for anyone to try and put themselves in others shoes and see how the world is in another persons view.  But personally I think those who are the better people are those that keep their negative views to themselves. 

The time that people still share negative views then there will still need to be that counteracting voice (and lets not forget that the first pride "celebration" was a riot so it takes a lot of bravery for people to raise that flag and voice). 

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My view is clear everyone has a right within reason to do what they want.However there is a responsibility on all of us what ever colour or gender.If someone's views or bad behaviour affects others that is unacceptable. I think in recent years some bad behaviour has increased. In recent months for example two young women were beaten on the underground because they would not kiss.(they are gay).I am only concerned that people, who ever they are respect others.We all have different views, as it should be.Just respect others.Like most here I love the broads,but dont want idiots shouting racist, homophobic drunken rubbish comments at me or others.

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‘Across the world extreme views are proliferating towards intolerence in a way not seen since the 1930s.’

I think you’ve hit the nail on the head there Ray. It really worries me that all the gains of international cooperation that were made following WW2 (learning the lessons of the aftermath of WW1) have been forgotten. Sorry...politics..not supposed to go there!

Helen

 

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12 hours ago, dnks34 said:

 

 

Do we need to keep labelling everything? 

Anyway, am I a racist or a homophobe??!! 

 

Certainly not, you`re a realist like most people, but like me, you`re NOT afraid to be so, so much respect.

It IS`NT racist to disagree with immigration, but it is racism to do, or wish harm or anything untoward on to anybody of a different race, irrespective of the colour of their skin.

It IS`NT homophobic to disagree with LBGT etc, but it IS homophobic to do, or wish harm or anything untoward on anybody who has a different lifestyle to you.

As for Hoseasons, what a bloody joke. All they`ve done is bring gutter politics into boat (and any of their other holiday outlets) hire. Could it be they`re desperate for bookings?.

I`l not make any more comments on this thread, except to say, if the mods are not happy with this post, i`m happy for you to delete it.

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Can’t we just all get on together? 

I feel the biggest blessings of my life have been to move to Milton Keynes and to work for the OU. The OU needs no explanation, it’s the most inclusive organisation dedicated to giving opportunities to all. 

On a recent TV programme about the 50 year celebration of Milton Keynes the bits that I loved most were the interviews with school kids where they expressed their value for the inclusivity of MK. 

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People who identify as LGBTQ+ can speak for themselves and do so with eloquence, Pride is indeed well named.

But that isn't enough, we should all speak for them and any others who suffer discrimination and hatred.

The one big thing that consistently fails to be recognised, even by genuinely good people who mean no harm is that all of the people who are given or take with pride that label are just people. It is no more a choice or lifestyle than having curly hair, blue eyes or being left handed.

Within living memory in this country people were discriminated against and punished for being left handed. Would we stand for such a ridiculous practice now? Of course not!

So let's not stand for any type of persecution of any type of person.

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I don't see any bigotry here just people expressing honest opinions but then everything is in the eye of the beholder, this is another instance of a business jumping on a bandwagon, in this case not because it will help alleviate something but presumably just to make itself appear more attractive to some.

Unfortunately there will always be those that attack others whether it be on homophobic, racial, religious or political grounds often through fear or ignorance, waving a flag in their face or cracking a whip wont help stop this only ingrain it more the "right" sort of education may help to reduce it.

Throughout my life going back to the Windrush generation I have been fortunate enough to work with and live amongst people of all persuasions and racial background and count myself lucky to have been able to call some friends, we have all got on well till someone who feels the need to be offended on their behalf has come along and told us we need to change our attitude and approach to others which has then created a situation of resentment and exasperated what was a relatively minor problem, where I have lived and worked anti-Semitism is a far greater problem than homophobia but dosn`t appear to receive anywhere near the same level of public or political outcry presumably because there is not the same political gain in pursuing this in fact to some extent the exact opposite.

I am who I am and do not have the need to go round telling everybody, I treat everybody for who they are not what they say they are, there is no need for anyone to be labelled and even more to go around with a label on their forehead, no one should need to hide their lifestyle but by the same token there is no need for them to advertise it.

One thing I and most of the people I know resent is that for many years politicians, local authorities and now the Mayor of London squander our hard earned money promoting various so called minority groups while reducing or removing essential services for all of us pleading poverty, if you want to promote hatred and bigotry then that is the easiest way to do it.

Rant Over

Fred

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7 minutes ago, rightsaidfred said:

I don't see any bigotry here just people expressing honest opinions but then everything is in the eye of the beholder, this is another instance of a business jumping on a bandwagon, in this case not because it will help alleviate something but presumably just to make itself appear more attractive to some.

Unfortunately there will always be those that attack others whether it be on homophobic, racial, religious or political grounds often through fear or ignorance, waving a flag in their face or cracking a whip wont help stop this only ingrain it more the "right" sort of education may help to reduce it.

Throughout my life going back to the Windrush generation I have been fortunate enough to work with and live amongst people of all persuasions and racial background and count myself lucky to have been able to call some friends, we have all got on well till someone who feels the need to be offended on their behalf has come along and told us we need to change our attitude and approach to others which has then created a situation of resentment and exasperated what was a relatively minor problem, where I have lived and worked anti-Semitism is a far greater problem than homophobia but dosn`t appear to receive anywhere near the same level of public or political outcry presumably because there is not the same political gain in pursuing this in fact to some extent the exact opposite.

I am who I am and do not have the need to go round telling everybody, I treat everybody for who they are not what they say they are, there is no need for anyone to be labelled and even more to go around with a label on their forehead, no one should need to hide their lifestyle but by the same token there is no need for them to advertise it.

One thing I and most of the people I know resent is that for many years politicians, local authorities and now the Mayor of London squander our hard earned money promoting various so called minority groups while reducing or removing essential services for all of us pleading poverty, if you want to promote hatred and bigotry then that is the easiest way to do it.

Rant Over

Fred

No offense Fred but that is pretty much the whole general attitude that fundamentally needs changing

"Some of my best friends are (insert minority)"

"You don't hear so much about this other type of discrimination" Anti semitism has quite rightly been covered extensively lately and should continue to be.

"I haven't seen any bigotry here" Of course not, there hasn't been any so no need to take offense or even mention it.

"It is a lifestyle" No, it's not

"Politicians make cuts to services but spend money promoting minorities" Supporting minorities is a service and it has suffered as many cuts as any other. That situation is idealogical and would require a deep debate on a subject not allowed by forum rules.

I'm not picking on you personally, hopefully it's clear that is not something I do, but it is general perceptions by people at large and nothing will change ntil there is a sea change in attitudes. Just as with drink driving for example!

 

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Actually, i think the problem here is that Hoseasons are ‘Virtue Signalling’ which is very annoying in my book.  ‘Look at us, we are saying the right thing’ when actually implementing that policy with booking holidays would be unworkable, barring someone called Tommy Robinson turning up!

They would be reduced to asking, as in the apocryphal US Immigration story  ‘are you a terrorist?’  Well er ‘No’? 

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4 minutes ago, Ray said:

No offense Fred but that is pretty much the whole general attitude that fundamentally needs changing

"Some of my best friends are (insert minority)"

"You don't hear so much about this other type of discrimination" Anti semitism has quite rightly been covered extensively lately and should continue to be.

"I haven't seen any bigotry here" Of course not, there hasn't been any so no need to take offense or even mention it.

"It is a lifestyle" No, it's not

"Politicians make cuts to services but spend money promoting minorities" Supporting minorities is a service and it has suffered as many cuts as any other. That situation is idealogical and would require a deep debate on a subject not allowed by forum rules.

I'm not picking on you personally, hopefully it's clear that is not something I do, but it is general perceptions by people at large and nothing will change ntil there is a sea change in attitudes. Just as with drink driving for example!

 

Ray

I havn`t and do not take offense at anything, I only mentioned bigotry because another poster had already accused some posters of it. I do not object to anyones opinion but mine has been developed over a considerable number of years associating and working with numerous people many of whom do not feel the need to be stereotyped or have others feel offended on their behalf and see exactly the same issues in the same way as I do.

Fred

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all of my friends are- friends - just that, strangers are just people I havent made friends with yet

I am pretty easy going and try and get along with everyone.

I will defend anyones right to hold an opinion and express it - as long as they dont try and force it on others and respect that others might not agree with them.

at work we probably have representatives of most races, creeds and sexual orientations, but they are all just friends and colleagues and we muddle along just fine, we have a laugh sometimes, but not at each other, but with each other. we do realise that some have foods they dont eat, others dont drink we try and accomodate this when we buy treats for the office, but they dont feel sleighted if we forget and get say chocolate liquours, they will just politely decline as it is the thought that counts.

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11 minutes ago, Polly said:

Actually, i think the problem here is that Hoseasons are ‘Virtue Signalling’ which is very annoying in my book.  ‘Look at us, we are saying the right thing’ when actually implementing that policy with booking holidays would be unworkable, barring someone called Tommy Robinson turning up!

They would be reduced to asking, as in the apocryphal US Immigration story  ‘are you a terrorist?’  Well er ‘No’? 

Thanks Polly, you've managed to hit the nail on the head, I had a couple of attempts at saying similar yesterday, but managed to do so in a clumsy way.

With Hoseasons claiming to ban two sectors of the community (even if it wouldn't have been workable) that implies that all others are welcome!! Whilst I wouldn't want to end up in a chalet next to a group of homophobes, or racists, there is equally quite a few other groups I wouldn't want to end up next to either. Yet now seemingly Hoseasons have implied by not naming, that they would be allowed to book!

9 hours ago, Ray said:

So let's not stand for any type of persecution of any type of person.

 In my mind Ray's statement would have been a far better one to use than the one that Hoseasons used!

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7 minutes ago, grendel said:

I will defend anyones right to hold an opinion and express it

Excuse me Grendel, for picking on one little sentence from your post, but this is exactly what Hoseasons have not done!

If they are actually trying to say that they will not accept homophobic or racist actions from their customers whilst on one of their holidays, that is a public order matter which should be dealt with by the forces of law and order, not by a travel agent.

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1 minute ago, Vaughan said:

Excuse me Grendel, for picking on one little sentence from your post, but this is exactly what Hoseasons have not done!

If they are actually trying to say that they will not accept homophobic or racist actions from their customers whilst on one of their holidays, that is a public order matter which should be dealt with by the forces of law and order, not by a travel agent.

And if that is what they are trying to say, then it is already covered in the T&C's with a generic statement, it needs no further elaboration.

We will refuse to hand over the boat if the "unreasonable" behaviour of anyone in your party is likely to cause offence to other guests, to members of staff or to neighbours.

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28 minutes ago, Polly said:

They would be reduced to asking, as in the apocryphal US Immigration story  ‘are you a terrorist?’  Well er ‘No’? 

Just by the way, my father could confirm the truth of that story, as he took the "Pacific route" home from Hong Kong in 1937 and needed a visa to cross the U.S. by rail from San Francisco to New York. He often told the story of having to fill in an application form of several pages with bizarre questions, one of which was "Do you intend overthrowing the United States Government? Answer yes or no."

The last two questions, on the last page of the form, were "Can you read?" and "Can you write?"

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10 hours ago, Ray said:

People who identify as LGBTQ+ can speak for themselves and do so with eloquence, Pride is indeed well named.

But that isn't enough, we should all speak for them and any others who suffer discrimination and hatred.

The one big thing that consistently fails to be recognised, even by genuinely good people who mean no harm is that all of the people who are given or take with pride that label are just people. It is no more a choice or lifestyle than having curly hair, blue eyes or being left handed.

Within living memory in this country people were discriminated against and punished for being left handed. Would we stand for such a ridiculous practice now? Of course not!

So let's not stand for any type of persecution of any type of person.

Forgot to mention, Im left handed and did get persecuted at junior school for it, is it to late to make a claim against my school and dead headmaster for distress ?

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3 minutes ago, Victoryv said:

Forgot to mention, Im left handed and did get persecuted at junior school for it, is it to late to make a claim against my school and dead headmaster for distress ?

Yes!

But it's never too late to help stop others from suffering injustice, not just at school but for their whole lives for something that is just as natural as being left handed 

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1 hour ago, Vaughan said:

Excuse me Grendel, for picking on one little sentence from your post, but this is exactly what Hoseasons have not done!

If they are actually trying to say that they will not accept homophobic or racist actions from their customers whilst on one of their holidays, that is a public order matter which should be dealt with by the forces of law and order, not by a travel agent.

I was saying that was my position, hopefully not inferring that was what hoseasons were trying to implement.

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4 minutes ago, Ray said:

Yes!

But it's never too late to help stop others from suffering injustice, not just at school but for their whole lives for something that is just as natural as being left handed 

I agree wholeheartedly, but rather than make a vocal stand sometimes a more undercover approach appeals to my sense of justice,I work as a picture restorer, usually on expensive works of art for respected galleries and individual clients, I have all my life been opposed to blood sports, but if a customer bought me a damaged fox hunting picture in for restoration, I wouldn't turn them away with a lecture on why I didn't want to do the job, I would be civil complete the project, charge them a little extra and give it to the league against cruel sports. There is always more than one way to skin a cat (god forbid) .

 

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