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Dash Cam

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8 minutes ago, Vaughan said:

I wasn't going to put my toe in this particular "water" as I know B - all about the subject but I have a question, as a layman.

What is a public, or private place, in this respect? If you visit a privately owned stately home and pay to enter (and park your car), are you in public, or in private, on private land?

In the case of a private marina, are you in private, on your paid mooring, or are you in a place where the public have access, even if they have had to pay to enter, or moor?

 

It largely comes down to whether general access is restricted to the public. Stately homes and parks are private land where general public access is allowed, even is a fee is required and they would be considered public areas. English Heritage actually have a policy restricting the use of drones on their land without their express permission and many such houses have policies regarding the use of cameras inside the house.

A marina is private land and where access is restricted to berth holders only, i.e. the general public can not just come and go at will, then you would have a reasonable expectation of privacy. In the same way as any gated housing estate or apartment complex. There would be a difference between for instance Richardsons yard which whilst public had much general public access and say Brundall Bay Marina where access is for berth holders only. Again using Richardsons as an example, anyone moored in the wetshed would have a certain expectation to privacy from the general public, that doesn't exist in the more public areas of the yard.

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8 minutes ago, Vaughan said:

I wasn't going to put my toe in this particular "water" as I know B - all about the subject but I have a question, as a layman.

What is a public, or private place, in this respect? If you visit a privately owned stately home and pay to enter (and park your car), are you in public, or in private, on private land?

In the case of a private marina, are you in private, on your paid mooring, or are you in a place where the public have access, even if they have had to pay to enter, or moor?

 

As I understand it, if you enter a private building or land with the permission of the owner (whether for payment or otherwise) the owner is entitled to impose whatever conditions they please and you are regarded as accepting those conditions if you enter. If one of the conditions is ‘no photography allowed’, you have to abide by that. A ‘private’ place does not lose that status, simply because the owner allows access.

On the specific matter of a private marina, the berth holders have a right of access, but have to comply with any conditions set out in their contract with the owner. Breaching any of those conditions may lead to the right of access being withdrawn. Other members of the public have no right of access, other than with the express or implied consent of the owner.

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“Public place” includes any highway and any other premises or place to which at the material time the public have or are permitted to have access, whether on payment or otherwise ”.
Criminal Justice Act 1972

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as said before though the point is moot in that 99.9% of dash cam footage just quietly disappears from the record 4 hours after it is recorded, never having been viewed.

as for the bump mode  - the only time mine has ever been activated was when I dropped a wheel into a pot hole big enough to burst the tyre, I would not expect one on a boat to react to every scrape or scuff, but maybe a major impact it would be set off.

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39 minutes ago, Timbo said:

“Public place” includes any highway and any other premises or place to which at the material time the public have or are permitted to have access, whether on payment or otherwise ”.
Criminal Justice Act 1972

That refers specifically to the definition of public place as applied to the Public Order Act 1936, which confines itself to the prohibition of wearing political uniforms and the membership of quasi-military organisations. The meaning of “public place” varies, depending on the legislation being considered.

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i think this statement (applied to a boat) covers the main point of this discussion

Quote

"Public Place" is not defined in legislation. A public place is usually a place to which the public are allowed to have access freely and without payment or permission. This includes any public highway or footpath. The inside of a car is also considered as a public place, unless it is parked on private property.

so if you are moored up on a public waterway (ie not in a private marina) the inside of your boat counts as a public place (provided the pictures taken are not considered indecent).

while a dash cam can record sound it doesnt generally record much from outside the car (the footage I have seen from mine usually drowns everything by the sound of the radio or me singing.

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2 hours ago, Vaughan said:

I wasn't going to put my toe in this particular "water" as I know B - all about the subject but I have a question, as a layman.

What is a public, or private place, in this respect? If you visit a privately owned stately home and pay to enter (and park your car), are you in public, or in private, on private land?

In the case of a private marina, are you in private, on your paid mooring, or are you in a place where the public have access, even if they have had to pay to enter, or moor?

 

Hi Vaughan,

No doubt your question would keep a team of solicitors in work for a number of years.

Regards

Alan

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11 hours ago, ranworthbreeze said:

Hi Vaughan,

No doubt your question would keep a team of solicitors in work for a number of years.

Regards

Alan

If only my job would work this way, next time this year I would be a millionaire! :default_biggrin:

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For me, this is not an issues of law, but more one of courtesy and respect for other users of the Broads.

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On ‎07‎/‎09‎/‎2019 at 10:19, sailor said:

For me, this is not an issues of law, but more one of courtesy and respect for other users of the Broads.

The broads traffic is starting to get no different from the roads, hit and run, drunk drivers and mooring/parking mishaps. That's why dash cams will be very popular to the private sector as the hire holiday tourist won't give a shite.

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4 minutes ago, KaptinKev said:

The broads traffic is starting to get no different from the roads, hit and run, drunk drivers and mooring/parking mishaps. That's why dash cams will be very popular to the private sector as the hire holiday tourist won't give a shite.

A little harsh I think, most hirers are courteous and considerate. There are good and bad on both sides. 

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On 07/09/2019 at 10:19, sailor said:

For me, this is not an issues of law, but more one of courtesy and respect for other users of the Broads.

Don`t have enough experiance of the waters to comment however covering 15-20k a year on roads for 15yrs does. Courtesy to fellow road users is dying.

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6 minutes ago, vanessan said:

A little harsh I think, most hirers are courteous and considerate. There are good and bad on both sides. 

Agreed, I was a bit harsh to the hire sector, but I do think on average the private sector would have a little more respect.

The hire sector don't own the boat!

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26 minutes ago, vanessan said:

A little harsh I think, most hirers are courteous and considerate. There are good and bad on both sides. 

I agree sounds like the majority being berated for the minority

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This has been a very interesting thread, and one which i`m going to sit on the fence about. I can see the pro`s and con`s of dash cams on boats, especially when Lightning got badly damaged when hit by another boat when our owner was in Beccles. Luckily for us, the incident was witnessed by around 8 people AND the harbourmaster. If that happened while he was in his office, or while the yacht station was empty, it would have had to been a claim on OUR insurance. 

Another point is, Lightnings insurance strictly forbids other boats to tie alongside (double moored), for several reasons being, security, damage, and public liability issues. The security issue is obvious, what`s to stop a boat double mooring, when our owners are ashore, then someone hiding down between the two boats and breaking in. Damage, if a boat double moors, comes in hard and causes damage etc etc. And lastly, public liability, if someone double moors, decide to go ashore and slips on our decks, we then get sue`d with a massive personal injury claim. On our last trip on Lightning, we met up with some friends, one of whom told me when they were waiting to fuel up at our home mooring yard, the fuel attendent told them to tie alongside Lightning while they were waiting, something our home mooring management know is strictly forbidden. With these in mind, a dash cam would be very beneficial. 

That said, i do take the point about having cameras being trained on you or your property, family, and children. 

As i said, i`m on the fence on this subject, but i hope it does`nt have those pointed poles :default_icon_e_surprised:.

 

What i WILL say is a point i made on the drone thread, i wonder how many people who have contributed to this thread regarding invasions of privacy, have taken pictures, or filmed, passing boats, riverside cottages, people having fun in some way, or one of the many regattas in progress. Have you ever asked their permission and considered THEIR privacy? ...........................

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1 hour ago, SPEEDTRIPLE said:

This has been a very interesting thread, and one which i`m going to sit on the fence about.

I can see you sitting on the fence with my dashcam and cctv, just launching the drone as back up  :default_biggrin:

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