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MikyO

Shame About Some Of The Old Fishing Hotspots.

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3 minutes ago, MauriceMynah said:

And if the fish could speak?

"Stop pulling me out of the Bl##dy Water" 

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1 hour ago, batrabill said:

If Otters could speak I think they might say, "We were here first and were doing just fine until you poisoned us."

Fair comment but perhaps not so relevant as it might be, let me explain. I well remember when game-keepers controlled otters, pike, fox, jays, indeed most predatory species. Okay, so it was done in the name of 'sport' but it had gone on for generations and the so called balance of nature evolved around that control. Regretfully that balance has now been wholly upset, due to mankind's continued intervention. As a kid I saw marshes and rivers teeming with wildlife and waterfowl. In recent years I have seen marsh harriers decimating the nests of ground nesting birds, both out on open marshland and along the rhond. As an angler out on the bank I have seen both fox and otters feeding from nests, destroying both eggs and taking the young. Years ago there were literally tens of thousands of coot and moorhens, enough to feed the guns of the marshmen in their punts but also enough to sustain natural losses to what predation there was at that time. That balance has undeniably been upset. It doesn't matter who was here first but it does matter as to whom is here today.  The release of both otters and mink has been a substantial own goal by animal rights activists and avid, often unthinking conservationists. The return of marsh harriers is to be welcomed on many counts but it has come at an unpleasant cost to other species. Poorly controlled dogs and feral cats have also added to the problem, as has tree loss in domestic gardens. Mankind, often well meaning, has a lot to answer for!

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"Stop hooking me out of the water, when all I want is to feed and be left alone"

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JM very well put an excellent representation of the experience of many of us, all species both decline and prosper at times something nature is very good at controlling till man interferes and upsets the balance.

As for  the fishing the populations are as good now on the broads as  they have ever been, just because you cant catch them dosn`t mean they are not there, water conditions play a big factor in their feeding habits with all the current rainfall washing contaminants into the rivers having some effect, not wishing to teach anyone to suck eggs but angling is a skill that requires different approaches under differing circumstances, if all you had to do was chuck a bait in the river it would soon get boring.

Fred

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I think there is a problem with your argument JM and that is that you talk of "balance" but that is only at any specific moment in time.

Your gamekeepers only replaced a previous "balance" with a new "balance."

As you say mankind has a lot to answer for, but once you accept that we are responsible for things like organophosphate decimating predator populations, then you can see why many would want to redress the balance.

I think that most of us can agree that it is more complex than simply blaming otters for "poor" fishing.

 

 

DEFRAS report from 2018 on bird populations is interesting. Here's what it says about Wetland species

 

Birds of slow flowing and standing water

Birds of slow flowing and standing water have
shown the most positive trend, potentially
benefitting most from wetland creation; in 2017
the index was 41% higher than in 1975 (Figure
4b) although the smoothed index has shown a
4% decrease in the more recent short-term
period between 2011 and 2016. Over the long term there were marked increases in two duck species, mallard and tufted duck; mallard numbers have trebled and tufted duck numbers have increased 92%. The index for coot shows an increase of 64%. However, moorhen and little grebe have declined by almost a third since 1975.

 

On thing I do know about these things, they are really hard to quantify and almost impossible to attribute causation.

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26 minutes ago, rightsaidfred said:

JM very well put an excellent representation of the experience of many of us, all species both decline and prosper at times something nature is very good at controlling till man interferes and upsets the balance.

As for  the fishing the populations are as good now on the broads as  they have ever been, just because you cant catch them dosn`t mean they are not there, water conditions play a big factor in their feeding habits with all the current rainfall washing contaminants into the rivers having some effect, not wishing to teach anyone to suck eggs but angling is a skill that requires different approaches under differing circumstances, if all you had to do was chuck a bait in the river it would soon get boring.

Fred

Makes you wonder how  nature survived until mankind came along and 'controlled' the predatory species.

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Bill, whilst I agree or largely accept the gist of your last post I must take exception to the DEFRA report

31 minutes ago, Poppy said:

Makes you wonder how  nature survived until mankind came along and 'controlled' the predatory species.

Not really, the population was a fraction of what it is today thus probably a great deal less interference from mankind. Secondly I suspect that the natural balance was a great deal more natural then than it ever could be today.

Re the fishing, I haven't had the big bream, ten pound plus, this year that I've had over the last few seasons. However I have had more than a few in the three to five pound bracket and I have had some stonking roach fishing, better than for a long time. The pike fishing, now that has deteriorated big time, too many would be pike anglers and not enough fish plus some appalling fishing skills.

Re fish moving about, a point well made by Fred. Because you catch in one place one year doesn't mean that you will do so the next year. The same can be said for one week and then the next! Fish do have traditional movement patterns but there are plenty of other factors coming into play. 

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7 hours ago, SPEEDTRIPLE said:

Re Marsh Harriers, whenever I see them, they are a little way inland, so I didn't consider them.  Cormorants, yes another predator, but I thought they only take from the river, and do not take nesting birds or others from the land. As for the American Mink, obviously another example of man's interference in matters of nature. 

I'm sure somebody told me that Catfish are also on the Broads, is that true, and are they a natural UK spices or invasive?. 

Im almost certain i had a large Wells follow in a lure once. I saw a very wide head just below the surface, made me look twice I can tell you! 

Its like carp, supposedly in good numbers but Ive never seen one in the Broads.

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There is very definitely a large catfish on the Waveney. I caught one at 18 lbs many years ago. I also witnessed what I suspect is the same fish some years later at 86lbs. A 110 lbs plus fish came out at Beccles a few winters ago, apparently well witnessed and recorded. As for carp, blessed nuisance fish, I've had two off Oulton Broad over the years, both unintentionally, one also at 18 lbs and one at 21 lbs. I also witnessed a 48 lbs come out near the Waveney River Centre four years ago. They are there, needle in a haystack fishing though. 

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There are catfish both north and south if you know where to look but not in great numbers, there are certainly more carp than people realise after all the Monks kept them at St. Bennets centuries ago, what is a little surprising is that Chub are not more widespread.

Fred

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21 minutes ago, MauriceMynah said:

Chub prefer the canal system, probably something to do with the locks.

:facepalm:

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10 hours ago, Regulo said:

Only ever saw cormorants on Breydon Water in the 60's. Now they're the bird I predominately see EVERYWHERE! Why? Because we bottom drag-trawled their traditional feeding grounds. Man is the major cause of nature imbalance. If man disappeared, nature would find it's own balance. It wouldn't necessarily be the one humans would like or appreciate, but it would be a long-term overall balance of predator and prey.

Many years ago, i worked at Biggin Hill, and one of my colleagues made a comment in chat which made me stop and think, even though it seems way out, or far fetched.  He said he sometimes believes man is NOT native to this planet, because wildlife has a natural balance, and lives well within our planets bounds, and does not evolve like man has, ie, can a fish fly a helicopter, and can a pig sail a boat etc. I know this may seem a bit wierd, but when you think how man has evolved, and is rapidly outgrowing our planet, and use many of its rescources in an irresponsible manner, plus our facination with flight and space travel and the desire to develope and progress, but the animals have`nt, and can never do so, i sometimes think my mate may be on to something. Maybe man was seeded on this planet a million years or so ago by some form of being from another, possibly dying planet to repopulate the species. 

And no, i`m NOT David Icke in disguise. 

I bet this is going to get some strange reviews?.

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1 hour ago, MauriceMynah said:

Chub prefer the canal system, probably something to do with the locks.

Only you John, only you mate :default_icon_clap: :default_laugh:

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Years ago (1959) I lived at Biggin Hill, Dad was in RAF and I sometimes wondered if some of the locals had been beamed down from another planet, so may be you have a point.


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I was referring to Speed Triples post.

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5 minutes ago, Hylander said:

  I sometimes wondered if some of the locals had been beamed down from another planet, so may be you have a point.

I sometimes think that when in Loddon, but i still love the place, so maybe i was? :default_laugh:

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2 hours ago, rightsaidfred said:

what is a little surprising is that Chub are not more widespread.

They have long been on the Upper Waveney but during this past summer a number of us locals have caught juvenile chub off Oulton Broad.

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13 minutes ago, JennyMorgan said:

They have long been on the Upper Waveney but during this past summer a number of us locals have caught juvenile chub off Oulton Broad.

I have caught them in Norwich and at Somerleyton but never in the North and I would have thought the upper Ant and the Bure down to Horning ideal.

Fred

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For a variety of reasons, I am quite lucky to spend some time, especially in the winter, on the Upper Thurne and was up there fiddling around in February /March time - but don't ask me when but it was pretty nippy!! I am trying to recall precisely when it was, but a bit like my house, my brain is getting smaller! 

Well the point is that there was this chap out in one of the Martham boats fishing - he clearly was moving around a bit but it was all within the Hickling /Heigham Sound/ Eel Sett area and he was just off to bed having been fishing all night. And in that weather, and on his own. He said both on that night and the two preceding nights he had had catches EACH NIGHT of in excess of 100 pounds!

He was taking it pretty seriously, as he would, but I found it hard to believe him - but then why bother to lie to me? It made no difference to me and he was unlikely to want to impress me, of all people!

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12 hours ago, marshman said:

For a variety of reasons, I am quite lucky to spend some time, especially in the winter, on the Upper Thurne and was up there fiddling around in February /March time - but don't ask me when but it was pretty nippy!! I am trying to recall precisely when it was, but a bit like my house, my brain is getting smaller! 

Well the point is that there was this chap out in one of the Martham boats fishing - he clearly was moving around a bit but it was all within the Hickling /Heigham Sound/ Eel Sett area and he was just off to bed having been fishing all night. And in that weather, and on his own. He said both on that night and the two preceding nights he had had catches EACH NIGHT of in excess of 100 pounds!

He was taking it pretty seriously, as he would, but I found it hard to believe him - but then why bother to lie to me? It made no difference to me and he was unlikely to want to impress me, of all people!

The 100lb plus catches of Bream in the upper Thurne area have always been quite common the only reason they are not made so often now is the lack of boats able to access the area, locals who keep their boats up there still get large nets of fish but tend not to broadcast it.

Fred

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I do not usually use a keepnet myself as a rule, but as we were having rough luck at most of the usual places we put the net in just so we could get a good shot to remember the holiday. I do not fish competitions and to be honest halfway through the session is when we emptied the net. I also wanted to show that although some of the older hotspots were not producing, that there are still a few places where you can get a good bag without encroaching on the angling club waters. You can't moor at the club waters along the rivers as they go mad like. I was just trying to show people who like a fish, there are still fish there. Regardless of the Otters and Cormerants I had a great day on the Staith. I was in Christchurch last year and all thr big barbell and chub had fallen foul to the wildlife introduced there. The only fish we managed to cath were too small for the wildlife there to worry about and any decend sized fish we saw were either being eaten or had been half eaten. If I have offended in my post in any way it was not intended. However we are back next year and hopfully we will get to the South Side for a change. Maybe we will have some luck there. Was interesting reading your views and comments. Mike.

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37 minutes ago, MikyO said:

I do not usually use a keepnet myself as a rule, but as we were having rough luck at most of the usual places we put the net in just so we could get a good shot to remember the holiday. I do not fish competitions and to be honest halfway through the session is when we emptied the net. I also wanted to show that although some of the older hotspots were not producing, that there are still a few places where you can get a good bag without encroaching on the angling club waters. You can't moor at the club waters along the rivers as they go mad like. I was just trying to show people who like a fish, there are still fish there. Regardless of the Otters and Cormerants I had a great day on the Staith. I was in Christchurch last year and all thr big barbell and chub had fallen foul to the wildlife introduced there. The only fish we managed to cath were too small for the wildlife there to worry about and any decend sized fish we saw were either being eaten or had been half eaten. If I have offended in my post in any way it was not intended. However we are back next year and hopfully we will get to the South Side for a change. Maybe we will have some luck there. Was interesting reading your views and comments. Mike.

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Christchurch and Poole were for many years my stomping ground and in my youth  provided excellent flat fish sport. Large Plaice were abundant in the main body of the harbours and at the entrance to the rivers, whilst Flounder could be caught well up river. I have seen Flounder as far up the Frome as Wareham Quay.

I was talking those days when I was down there in May, with an old friend whole lives between Christchurch and Mudeford and he was saying that they are just not there anymore and he is in Christchurch and Poole harbours with his Orkney Pilot House all year round.

 

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We were up river and on the caravan site 2 pair of otters were playing in the kids playground messing with the slide. It was nice to see admitted but the devastation caused to thefish stoks, especially the big Chubb, Pike, and Barbell. They have only been in the river a few years but the bottom end of the Stour by the wier most of the bigger fish have vanished. It was j7st Jacks and small fry we were catching, a little down river tge week we were there someone had a 5lb Barbell but anything over the gilly was saying was few and far between.

Christchurch and Poole were for many years my stomping ground and in my youth  provided excellent flat fish sport. Large Plaice were abundant in the main body of the harbours and at the entrance to the rivers, whilst Flounder could be caught well up river. I have seen Flounder as far up the Frome as Wareham Quay.
I was talking those days when I was down there in May, with an old friend whole lives between Christchurch and Mudeford and he was saying that they are just not there anymore and he is in Christchurch and Poole harbours with his Orkney Pilot House all year round.
 


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