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JamesLV

Nbd Back To Len Funnells Ownership

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2 hours ago, lakesailor said:

I wonder if the hire fleet at WRC will continue to be separate or will it now join NBD with maybe more boats based there ?

Sent from the Norfolk Broads Network mobile app
 

Good point. I've booked Waveney Pisces for next April, one of the reasons being I fancied a South Broads start, so I'm hoping the boat stays based there. 

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8 hours ago, Broads01 said:

Good point. I've booked Waveney Pisces for next April, one of the reasons being I fancied a South Broads start, so I'm hoping the boat stays based there. 

Hi Simon,

I wonder if you would get a full refund if you canceled your booking due to the relocation of the fleet?. If your sole purpose for booking from them is to be on the south rivers, i would have thought you would be within your rights to cancel the booking and get a full refund so you can hire from one of the other four southern fleets?.

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Sure

1 hour ago, SPEEDTRIPLE said:

If your sole purpose for booking from them is to be on the south rivers, i would have thought you would be within your rights to cancel the booking and get a full refund so you can hire from one of the other four southern fleets?.

Sure that's correct, otherwise it would be a breach of contract, which says the start and end point is WRC

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On 05/12/2019 at 12:13, Paul said:

Am I the only one here thinking Marina development, waterside living, high cost homes ......

 

If that were to go ahead, then I would be very interested. Having now past my three score years and ten! I sometimes, (well often in reality), think how long should I remain in this rural idyll tending half an acre of garden and having to use the car. It is a beautiful place where I live but with age practicallity becomes as desirable as other attributes.

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There was talk of retirement homes sometime ago on the Windboats site but not heard of that lately.

My guess, for what its worth, is there is less likelihood of that in that position- that site is probably the best used tourist site in the whole of Norfolk. Now if that was announced at Brooms, i would not be surprised - still expecting that one!!!!!

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4 hours ago, marshman said:

There was talk of retirement homes sometime ago on the Windboats site but not heard of that lately.

My guess, for what its worth, is there is less likelihood of that in that position- that site is probably the best used tourist site in the whole of Norfolk. Now if that was announced at Brooms, i would not be surprised - still expecting that one!!!!!

That would mean a definite move of Lightnings mooring then :default_laugh:.

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16 hours ago, SPEEDTRIPLE said:

Hi Simon,

I wonder if you would get a full refund if you canceled your booking due to the relocation of the fleet?. If your sole purpose for booking from them is to be on the south rivers, i would have thought you would be within your rights to cancel the booking and get a full refund so you can hire from one of the other four southern fleets?.

That's a fair point Neil but we're they to switch to Wroxham I wouldn't cancel because I'm looking forward to having the boat. I'm planning to spend time north and south whatever. 

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1 hour ago, SPEEDTRIPLE said:

That would mean a definite move of Lightnings mooring then :default_laugh:.

There is a Planning Appeal in currently on Windboats site, an application having been refused by BA

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6 hours ago, marshman said:

There was talk of retirement homes sometime ago on the Windboats site but not heard of that lately.

My guess, for what its worth, is there is less likelihood of that in that position- that site is probably the best used tourist site in the whole of Norfolk. Now if that was announced at Brooms, i would not be surprised - still expecting that one!!!!!

There is a Planning Appeal in currently on Windboats site, an application having been refused by BA

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16 hours ago, SPEEDTRIPLE said:

Hi Simon,

I wonder if you would get a full refund if you canceled your booking due to the relocation of the fleet?. If your sole purpose for booking from them is to be on the south rivers, i would have thought you would be within your rights to cancel the booking and get a full refund so you can hire from one of the other four southern fleets?.

WRC is an entire complex not just a Boatyard wonder where the idea of moving the new WRC fleet came from?

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1 hour ago, Bytheriver said:

WRC is an entire complex not just a Boatyard wonder where the idea of moving the new WRC fleet came from?

Probably by guesswork on a forum, without knowing any facts.

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48 minutes ago, Vaughan said:

Probably by guesswork on a forum, without knowing any facts.

Your post comes across as a bit sarcastic Vaughn, i hope i`m wrong?. 

With regard to your post above, Correct me if i`m wrong, but If you read Lakesailors post on page 1, later quoted by Simon (Broads01), you will see he does NOT say they will be moving the fleet North,  he merely says "I wonder", which is questioning. I think his question is very valid, as operating one company`s fleet out of two yards is not exactly what you would call cost effective. If it were, i doubt Richardsons would have closed their Acle yard?.  Aston boats at the height of the hire boat industry operated from Loddon and Beccles, but after the downturn in the popularity of hire boating, they then closed down their Loddon yard as it was no longer cost effective.

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My original post was just wondering if now NBD and WRC are now connected by same ownership if they would be continuing to operate hire fleet separately or if maybe it would all come under NBD banner and have a north and south base with few more boats based at WRC .
Nothing more than curiosity on my behalf about this .

Sent from the Norfolk Broads Network mobile app

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And still nobody (unless I missed it) has used the phrase "one way hires". It has to be attractive to take a boat from Wroxham and return to WRC, or vice versa

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13 minutes ago, Paul said:

And still nobody (unless I missed it) has used the phrase "one way hires". It has to be attractive to take a boat from Wroxham and return to WRC, or vice versa

I am sure Leboat tried it without a lot of success.

Fred

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7 minutes ago, rightsaidfred said:

 

I am sure Leboat tried it without a lot of success.

Fred

but then leBoat didn't have a lot of success with A to A hires either, it was a short lived venture as far as the broads is concerned. 

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I think it's the long walk back to the car that puts one way hirers off :default_biggrin:

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Two scenarios speing to mind here, half price deluxe moorings at WRC for visiting NBD boats (£10.00) and the WRC booking office being swallowed up by NBD. Suspect that WRC will otherwise continue pretty much as it is now but perhaps the yard will concentrate more on private boats and maintenance whilst leaving hireboat building to Wroxham. We'll see! Meanwhile galloping gentrification will contnue at a pace at WRC!

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13 hours ago, Paul said:

but then leBoat didn't have a lot of success with A to A hires either, it was a short lived venture as far as the broads is concerned. 

Maidboats also tried it on the Thames back in the 90s with limited success, I know it works with some success on the canals but if Len thought it viable here I think he would have considered it at Ferry Marine but only time will tell.

Fred

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Anglo Welsh did it for a few years in the 90s. i can't remember if they did it on more than one route but we booked on a one week holiday from New Mills (Peak Forest Canal) to Trevor (just the other side of the Pontcysyllte aqueduct on the Llangollen Canal).

Left the car at New Mills and were taken back there by coach from Trevor at the end of our week. The coach had just nine people on it, so I doubt if the cost per head to Anglo Welsh would have pleased their number crunchers. The customer had the added disadvantage of having to make two journeys on their way home from holiday - first the coach journey, then having to make their way home from New Mills.

If Anglo Welsh couldn't make it cost effective on a route as superb as: the Peak Forest Canal, Macclesfield Canal, Trent and Mersey Canal (including going down Heartbreak Hill) and then finishing with the Llangollen Canal, I doubt that there would be enough interest between two places on the Broads after the initial novelty had worn off.

The only way I could see it working (logistically for the boatyards) would be for the hirers not being allowed to pick their start point but be informed their direction of travel a week before their holiday - and how many people would want to do that?

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Anglo Welsh also did Great Haywood to Trevor and Shire Cruisers still do one way trips between Sowerby Bridge and Barnoldswick. I've done both in the past. I think the other big problem for an operator with one way cruises is that you have to allocate specific boats for it. If you look at NBD they have something like 26 different classes to choose from so a hirer can pick the boat they want. Put, say, 2 classes on one way hire and the choice is limited. I think that being able to choose a boat you like is a much bigger factor in choosing a holiday than the option to go one way.

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A few years ago Faircraft and Herbert Woods were under the same ownership and ran successfully independently of each other , at that time it seemed the elite fleet were hired under the Faircraft banner and the older boats by Herbert Woods , which ever route forward Len takes I think it is a virtual certainty that it will be a great success as indeed Ferry was ; not many people know the hire trade as well as him.

I should think the only major change will be NBD moving into the “all inclusive” realm as opposed to the current scheme of adding fuel deposit , CDW, parking charges etc on to the advertised hire charge this was previously the method employed by Ferry Marina and is currently in place at WRC 

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I see there is an article about the change of hands on today's EDP website. Another little example of Archant historical research. Len is not the "founder" of Faircraft, Loynes or Broads Tours.

Broads Tours was founded by Charles Hannaford in 1935 (this information from Broads Tours own website) and John Loynes is considered by many to be the first genuine holiday boat hirer on the Broads. He was one of the founder members of Harry Blake's agency in 1908.

Len didn't found Faircraft either. He bought the yard when he first came to Norfolk in the mid 70's and it was me, as it happens, who sponsored his original membership of Blakes. There is a lot of interesting history around the boatyards in Wroxham and Hoveton and the EDP should take more care to get details right.

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On 08/12/2019 at 11:00, webntweb said:

Anglo Welsh did it for a few years in the 90s. i can't remember if they did it on more than one route but we booked on a one week holiday from New Mills (Peak Forest Canal) to Trevor (just the other side of the Pontcysyllte aqueduct on the Llangollen Canal).

Left the car at New Mills and were taken back there by coach from Trevor at the end of our week. The coach had just nine people on it, so I doubt if the cost per head to Anglo Welsh would have pleased their number crunchers. The customer had the added disadvantage of having to make two journeys on their way home from holiday - first the coach journey, then having to make their way home from New Mills.

If Anglo Welsh couldn't make it cost effective on a route as superb as: the Peak Forest Canal, Macclesfield Canal, Trent and Mersey Canal (including going down Heartbreak Hill) and then finishing with the Llangollen Canal, I doubt that there would be enough interest between two places on the Broads after the initial novelty had worn off.....

I worked for Anglo Welsh between 1994 & 1998 at New Mills... might have even done your handover or helped you moor....

It certainly did work very well and made money.  Covering the entire Llangollen (one of the better to sell holidays on) and then quite some distance more was a good draw and these were some of the best booked (plus some of the oldest boats) in the fleet

It worked slightly different to how you remember in that you drove to your destination base and got a coach to your start point, so at the end you just drove home.

The issues we used to have were mainly logistical.  Those I remember well were the centered around the two bases being franchised to different people.  This changed towards the end of my time when Anglo Welsh was going/went PLC and was "run" by Bill Furness & David Daynes on the 'top floor'.  What went wrong with their period I do not know as I left after an appraisal when they stated they felt most improvements were due to their cash input and I decided that their world/beliefs and mine looked disappointingly different!  They seemed to be out within two years themselves. Anyhow, back to one way issues:

  • Both bases were franchised and the boats were owned by the Trevor base (and all major maintenance done by them), we turned them round on a per turnaround basis.  This meant bedding was theirs, if you hired a TV(!) it was Trevor's, this meant all this had to go back and too on the coach.  My manager spent a lot of time chasing (all the way to Trevor) after the coach with a tele' or box of bedding in the boot, though we suspected he enjoyed being out of the way on turnaround days!!?
  • Most people arrived on time or early for the coach but there would often be one group who hadn't arrived and held things or delayed/annoyed the others
  •  A saving could be made by one base putting minimum fuel in for the other base to top up, which got silly but good fun at one point.  
  • The coach's were from a small firm local to Trevor and were pretty old.... the one way bookings were enviable and therefore costs weren't a worry
  • The two bases were just a bit too far apart really.  I think you needed to do about 8/9 hours a day.  If you lost half a day in breakdowns it would be a pressure, or in periods of shorter daylight 
  • Other one way routes trialed never worked as well, but Trevor to Great Haywood lasted the distance for quite some time too, the Llangollen seeming to be the common success factor

Dan

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I have a memory, in the days when Herbert Woods and Hearts were under the same ownership in the 1980s, there was an offering in Blake's brochure for a one way cruise between Potter Heigham and Thorpe on the Delight/Knave of Hearts class (Broom 30). It may only have been offered for a single season.

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