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JamesLV

Nbd Back To Len Funnells Ownership

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59 minutes ago, JennyMorgan said:

Perhaps not impressed with the pseudo BNP tag:default_dry:

I hesitated to include that, but it may have something to do with it.

The BA have  assumed a role these days, of marketing the Broads under the National Park Banner. Has that actually attracted any tourist revenue to the Broads? Should the BA be involved in tourist marketing? 

 

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26 minutes ago, Vaughan said:

Has that actually attracted any tourist revenue to the Broads? Should the BA be involved in tourist marketing? 

Inevitably I would say 'no' and 'no' but I have no access to the relevant information that would at least help with answering the first question. As for the second I can only remind folk that the hire fleet is continuing to contract & suggest that the BA leaves marketing to the marketing industry experts rather than dabbling in it for all the wrong reasons.

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5 hours ago, Vaughan said:

That was John Loynes, who we have mentioned earlier!

I didn't want to mention Loynes just in case JayFire became hot under the collar! 

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Hardly dare ask this question but quite how, and what, if any, evidence is there that a National Park tag has anything other than a positive effect?? Surely the tag line can only have a positive effect ?

(Now I know that some will believe that it could have a negative effect but just wondered how this thread will develop???)

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48 minutes ago, JennyMorgan said:

I didn't want to mention Loynes just in case JayFire became hot under the collar! 

I'm already hot under the collar Mr JM Sir :default_norty:

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1 hour ago, marshman said:

what, if any, evidence is there that a National Park tag has anything other than a positive effect?

Alternatively is there any quantifiable evidence to suggest that the BNP tag is actually having a positive effect, apart from the reduction in the hire fleet? 

It's becoming a tired argument but perhaps the image of tree huggers, walking boots, cagoules and floppy hats is contrary to most people's expectations of the Broads? Pirates, booze cruises, captain's hats, having fun, lads weekends, dogs, fishing, hen and stag parties and boats, maybe all that being something of an oxymoron when paired with the BNP?

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27 minutes ago, batrabill said:

Did I miss something? What is the link between the NP tag and reduction in the hire fleet?

Nothing quantifiable, Bill, probably just a coincidence, but then again maybe not, who knows? The Broads is branded 'for marketing purposes' as a national park, surely one might then reasonably expect  the hire fleet to expand to meet the resultant increase in demand but it hasn't, it's actually contracting. Read into that what you will, I have!:default_wink:

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As I’m sure you know, correlation is not evidence of causation. 

I wonder if people might look more to the catastrophe that our journey to the sunlit uplands of our post-EU economic future. 

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I think the reduction in hire craft is reasonably well known and documented. It coincides pretty well with the vast increase in private boats. People who like the broads and want to keep coming back tend to buy their own boats. That leaves the hire fleet relying on those who are either "one off" visitors" or first timers who, if bitten by the bug, will most likely buy their own boat, or join a syndicate.

Yes there are those who wish to carry on hiring, and those good folk are the icing on the cake for hire companies.

Personally I doubt the Broads Authority, has had any significant effect on tourist numbers however much the good Dr thinks he has (or Peter thinks he has in the opposite direction).

 

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I, like many of you, have travelled this country extensively over the years but I have never gone anywhere because it's a national park.  

I go for the activities,  the scenery, a specific event etc but it would never occur to me to check an areas national park status as part of my criteria for visiting. 

Perhaps the forum could set up a poll amongst the many hirer's within these pages to find out whether being in the national park family influenced their decision to come?

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12 hours ago, JennyMorgan said:

but perhaps the image of tree huggers, walking boots, cagoules and floppy hats is contrary to most people's expectations of the Broads?

Again, I hesitated to include that bit, as I feared I might be leaped upon as prejudiced, at the very least! :default_gbxhmm:

I couldn't think how to put but I quite agree with JM. Not because of the floppy hats, but because of tourist revenue. All the rambling, cycling and bird watching which NP status helps to attract, does not bring any notable revenue or employment to the area. An awful lot of money is spent by the BA and local councils on providing the facilities that these activities seem to demand, but their participants pay usually nothing at all for it. And don't suggest that they bring revenue to local businesses because we can see the sort of shops that would hope to attract them, are closing down all the while. Incidentally they don't pay anything to the BA for it either, except very indirectly by government taxation.

The holiday boating industry, however, brings in half of the BA's revenue in river tolls and provides employment for hundreds, even thousands, of local people on the Broads.

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For me the NP issue is a total red herring, back in the Broads heyday and certainly for most of my Broads career any association with the NPs wasn`t even heard of the Broads were simply the Broads.

As for the decline in the hire fleets I believe there are several reasons, as MM says a lot of long time hirers are now owners in particular those from middle age onwards who saw no return on investments so decide to buy a boat etc. the foot and mouth epidemic in 2001 also had an impact, as far as those that used to come from abroad is concerned if memory serves me right in those days UK holidays were cheap in comparison to their home countries where as now it is the opposite, added to which the trend has switched to cheaper foreign holidays with short breaks at home, there are also probably several other contributory factors all of which have nothing to do with NPs or marketing.

Fred

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45 minutes ago, MauriceMynah said:

I think the reduction in hire craft is reasonably well known and documented. It coincides pretty well with the vast increase in private boats. People who like the broads and want to keep coming back tend to buy their own boats. That leaves the hire fleet relying on those who are either "one off" visitors" or first timers who, if bitten by the bug, will most likely buy their own boat, or join a syndicate.

Yes there are those who wish to carry on hiring, and those good folk are the icing on the cake for hire companies.

Personally I doubt the Broads Authority, has had any significant effect on tourist numbers however much the good Dr thinks he has (or Peter thinks he has in the opposite direction).

 

I think there are a number of categories of hirer that you have missed. There are those who hire because they cannot afford to own or who cannot justify the cost of ownership within their budget. Finance is not an unlimited resource. There are also those who enjoy visiting the broads, who return annually, or perhaps biannually but who also like visiting other parts of the country (be those areas national parks or not) and do not want to feel under pressure to spend every holiday on the Broads because they have a considerable amount of capital and recurring costs tied up in boat ownership. We could afford to own, but could not justify a boat of the size and standard which we like to hire and would miss visiting other places we love. 

The issue of who visits, why they visit and how often is a very complex issue which to me is one good reason why the Broads Authority with all of it's assigned responsibilities, many of which it struggles to undertake satisfactorily should not be getting involved.

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Paul, generally we are in agreement, though I think the groups you say I missed I believe were covered in the sentence  "

1 hour ago, MauriceMynah said:

Yes there are those who wish to carry on hiring, and those good folk are the icing on the cake for hire companies.

 

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1 hour ago, MauriceMynah said:

Personally I doubt the Broads Authority, has had any significant effect on tourist numbers however much the good Dr thinks he has (or Peter thinks he has in the opposite direction).

Interesting thoughts, John. However I'm not actually convinced that JP is having either a negative or positive effect on tourism, hence my oft repeated comments that the BA should leave tourism to those who know what they are doing. 

Just to be clear, my grouse with JP is that he is seemingly intent on altering the ethos and character of Broads to suit HIS vision. It is not his place to label the Broads as a national park for example or his place to decide, lead and manipulate policy and direction as he has.

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BUT if the BA do not promote the Broads (and I am not saying they should ) just who will on a national or global basis? If they are so dependant on hire tolls, you can perhaps see the temptation!

So back to the earlier point - whose job is it to advertise the Broads home here in Norfolk and away???

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17 minutes ago, MauriceMynah said:

Yes there are those who wish to carry on hiring, and those good folk are the icing on the cake for hire companies.

One of my neighbours used to own a very tasty sports cruiser that he'd imported from America. He has also owned several other boats, all of which he has subsequently sold. He now hires, his reasoning being that is cheaper to hire than it is to own, and that is despite owning his mooring. Boats hemorrhage money! Talking to a broker recently I was told that boats are being given away just so the owner can stem the outward flow of dosh.  

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7 minutes ago, marshman said:

whose job is it to advertise the Broads home here in Norfolk and away???

The relevant industry. Who advertisers cars for example? Not the local authority. 

Is the Authority advertising of the Broads in order to attract customers or in order to change policies and perceptions?

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1 minute ago, marshman said:

BUT if the BA do not promote the Broads (and I am not saying they should ) just who will on a national or global basis? If they are so dependant on hire tolls, you can perhaps see the temptation!

So back to the earlier point - whose job is it to advertise the Broads home here in Norfolk and away???

The people who should advertise the broads are those running businesses that stand to profit from the increased footfall.

Advertising has changed over recent years owing to the internet. Hoseason's is a shadow of it's former self as booking agents are increasingly being bypassed. Whilst we moan the passing of the brochure hitting the doormat, we only want to look at it, not book through it.

The question these days is not so much Who should advertise, but how they should do it.

Many on this forum (myself included) are not regular visitors to facebook so have little or no idea how much local broadland businesses advertise on it, or twitter, or snapchat, or any other popular platform, and because of this we cannot say how well or badly the advertising is done, or by whom. 

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Like others, I'm sure, I receive daily notifications of Broads and Broads Authority related notices and articles. Don't think that I have ever seen a BA press release in the Sun or the Express, seen a few in the Guardian, Telegraph and various 'professional' journals and the like though. 

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Who should advertise the Norfolk Broads...apart from the six not for profit tourist development organisations, three business development NPO's, two charitable trusts, two federations, five initiatives, a directorate and several national organisations tasked to this, all found on the first three pages of a Google search? Just the tea and biscuit budget for that many committees would pay for a significant advertising budget!

 

28 minutes ago, MauriceMynah said:

regular visitors to facebook so have little or no idea how much local broadland businesses advertise on it, or twitter, or snapchat, or any other popular platform

They advertise regularly, often and very effectively is the answer to that one MM! 
The question these days is not so much Who should advertise, but how they should do it? Nail, head, wallop!

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Living in a National Park I actively welcome and encourage visitors, our livelihood depends upon it, but for the last 5 years the Peak Park have concentrated all there efforts on cyclists, to the point that, I am told we now have the greatest concentration in the country at weekends.Perhaps the Broads National Park will follow suit, sell it to cyclists, fill the flat, cycle friendly roads with pushbikes, blissfully they can't get in your way when on the boat!

 

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you would need to put a lot of air in the tyres for them to get about on the broads

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