speed cameras on A149

[newf]

I think I have read a thread somewhere about the cancellation of the variable speed cameras on the A149 but I cant find it again so thought it might be of interest to start again. I was so incensed that once again we, the Joe Blogs of the world, have to foot the bill for someone at the top who has made a costly mistake gets away with it and we end up paying so I wrote to NCC and voiced my thoughts. Here is the reply email :

I hope that the following answers your questions. You will see that the last Government funded the introduction of these cameras, but as part of the response to the national debt crisis, the Coalition Government has withdrawn the funding that would be used to operate them through the Safety Camera Partnership.

On the question of bonus payments, the people working in the Safety Camera Partnership are more concerned about their jobs. The jobs of around 30 members of staff in the Safety Camera Partnership are at risk if the county council decides it is unable to meet the cost from other sources, or no other solution in found.

A149 and A1151 speed cameras

Approval and cost

Average speed cameras on seven sites along the A149 and A1151 were installed under the Rural Road Safety Demonstration Project run by Norfolk County Council for the Department for Transport (DfT). This 12km stretch of road had a bad accident record, with 127 casualties including nine fatalities and 18 serious injuries since 2003. The installation was approved and paid for by the Department for Transport. The cost was £470,000, paid for by the DfT, and the cameras were in place and uncovered by the end of March.

Number of people caught speeding

None. The cameras have not been activated. However, traffic speed checks (by road counter) before and after the installation of the cameras have shown a 90% reduction in the number of vehicles speeding.

The cameras, which include innovative features designed to make them effective with motorcycles, were to be operated by the Safety Camera Partnership, but could not become active until internet connections to the Partnership offices had been carried out by BT. This connection was delayed for reasons outside of Norfolk County Council's control, and connection was then postponed pending a decision on the future of the Safety Camera Partnership.

Please note that the decision on speed cameras and the Safety Camera Partnership has not yet been taken. It will be considered by Cabinet on 11 October.

However, following the loss of Government funding, Norfolk County Council's Environment, Transport and Development overview and scrutiny panel voted on 22 September in favore of closing down the Safety Camera Partnership.

The Partnership's work, including safety cameras and educational road safety work, is managed through Norfolk Police, which is responsible for speed limit enforcement. The Partnership’s £1.6m annual running costs are covered by the County Council using the Government's Road Safety Specific Grant. As part of in-year spending cuts the Government has reduced this grant by 40% this year and has warned councils to expect no Road Safety Specific Grant next year (2011/12).

In the light of this, Norfolk County Council has had to consider whether it should on its own fund the Partnership from other sources. The overview and scrutiny panel considered four different options and voted 9-4 in favour of Option 1 - closing down the Partnership and ending fixed and mobile speed camera enforcement and associated community safety work. This is now a recommendation to Cabinet which will consider the options and make a final decision on 11 October, taking account of ongoing discussions with the police.

Should you remain dissatisfied with my response to your complaint please contact the customer services (complaints) team who will discuss with you what can be done next.

John Birchall, Communications Officer, Environment, Transport and Development, Norfolk County Council

[Boaters]

Must agree Colin it seems your reply is the same as the explanation they gave in the EDP ,since they have been erected I have noticed that the standard of driving has been far better IMHO .Having stuck to the limit in common with those I have seen on this road I am left wondering that it must have had the effect and will that change now we all know that they have not been switched on ? Has the number of accidents reduced ? like Colin I live locally and must say have not heard of any serious ones lately.I must say when they put them in I thought they might have been more suited to have been placed on the A 11 or A 47 with its greater traffic load .

[C.Ricko]

9x fatalities in 7 years?

for £470k , I dont recall any major crashes in the last year wheras it seems as if there was one every few weeks before I hope people remain fooled by their presence.

[newf]

I agreed with the installation of the cameras and they obviously worked but somewhere down the line we, the taxpayer or council tax payer, are going to pay for some fat cat's blunder in the first place. My reply to NCC email :

Dear Mr Birchall,

Thank you for your prompt reply to my rant but my point and anger is not the fact that the said cameras were installed and your statistics prove the point that they should have been but that someone at the top has approved their installation , that 30 people, through no fault of their own, may lose their jobs because of the cancelation of the project and the person or persons at the top will bear no responsibility or cost for the mistake and it is always Joe Blogs who pay in the long run. Rant over and thank you for your time,

[Guest]

its always about what the last government did ( GROW A BLOODY PAIR WILL YOU)

if it saves lives then its worth the investment if not then why do with have ambulances police RNLI firefighters ect mind you give it a couple of years they would have paid for them selves in public services in crashes IE police to be called out fire brigade ambulance re reroute traffic if the air ambulance needs to be called out one accident could cost say £150k in public services if those speed cameras prevents at least one accident plus deaths in my eyes it worth its weight in gold...

even if it comes to nowhere near that amount over time it will be to save life & prevent crashes

Jonny

[jimbo]

I don't know the figures these days, but back in the 1990's each fatal road accident in our County, cost the tax payers £250,000 on average

[senator]

I don't know the stretch of road that these cameras have been installed at but if it is a dual carriageway, as seems to be the usual target,then surely it would be a lot cheaper and easier to teach people to look sideways rather than just in their mirrors before pulling out.

The simple fact is that if all the traffic is going in the same direction then with the exception of mechanical failure the only other reason for accidents is people who can't be bothered to look what is coming and I will place money on not many of the accidents being down to mechanical issues.

If people learned to drive then the there would be no need to stack people up nose to tail across 2 or 3 lanes leaving nowhere to go if something does go wrong.

[Guest]

isn't it the stretch from stalham to potter?

Jonny '

[senator]

If it is single carriageway then ignor what I have just said and blame the speeders

[Guest]

Yes, single carriageway for the whole stretch.

It's the classic "three lane" straight road, though they are no longer marked out as such.

Over the years there have been some horrendous accidents along there, where cars and bikes have crashed head-on at 70mph plus.

When you use it regularly, especially on a push bike, you notice the sad grubby little floral tributes and teddy bears etc., every 100 yards or so.

No carnage this year so far, (for the first time). I guess that may end now though, now that the cat's out of the bag.

The "wasted" half million has nothing to do with Road Safety policy miscalculation, just bl**dy politics, and vote winning election promises.

[mbird]

YesNo carnage this year so far, (for the first time). I guess that may end now though, now that the cat's out of the bag.

Let's hope no one is daft enough to chance it then. Who knows, they may just "switch" them on without saying

Personally I think the £470k is worth spending if it saves live, and it seems it has. If there is no funding to actually use the cameras then there is no revenue from them, but conversely no expense to keep them operational. To that end, they are effectively dummy cameras but seem to be doing a good job all the same.

[Heron]

If the County Council decision is to turn off the cameras, it looks like Norfolk Police will want to take over the operation. I heard a couple of weeks ago that a fatal accident now costs £1M+, so the A149 scheme seems like a very good investment to me as there have been no serious accidents on the relevant stretch of road since camera installation.

I don't think our political leaders realise what a bargain schemes like this really are.

Ken

[RedRover]

Lets face i have driven all over England for years and have seen many a stupid driver pulling out in front of cars,overtaking on bends and hills and at speed,driving at 70 mph plus in torrential rain and Fog,AND no amount of speed cameras will stop this from happening.People will be killed all over England and no cameras will stop this.And since i moved up to Norfolk in the last 3 years my Insurance went up (i asked the Company why and he said because Norfolk has more accidents than elsewhere - not confirmed) and driving in Norfolk i have seen so many near misses its getting frightening to drive here you just don't know what people are going to do anymore there actions are so random..

[Guest]

People will be killed all over England and no cameras will stop this.

Well they seem to have stopped it on the A149 Barry, even without being switched on.

The first year we've had there without any major accidents, and everyone who drives along it regularly has noticed the dramatic reduction in speeders.

[Guest]

Maybe it's time for community policing. Allow people who live alongside the carriageway to rent/maintain speed cameras and keep the revenue.

This would certainly help villages plagued by speeding commuters.

[andyg]

barry it not just norfolk mate, we run a small haulage firm in essex and travel all over the contry and the standard of driving is dreadfull, everyone needs to be somwhere yeaterday... biggest problem i see on a daily basis is selfish driving the im all right jack f**k you attitude. seen it cause so many accidents its un real. its not more cameras we need, its us as drivers need to plan our routes better and allow enough time for the journey..

[RedRover]

barry it not just norfolk mate, we run a small haulage firm in essex and travel all over the contry and the standard of driving is dreadfull, everyone needs to be somwhere yeaterday... biggest problem i see on a daily basis is selfish driving the im all right jack f**k you attitude. seen it cause so many accidents its un real. its not more cameras we need, its us as drivers need to plan our routes better and allow enough time for the journey..

Andy if you read my post i mention all of england,and yes your right some drivers seem to want to commit harry carry,speed is definately a killer along with stupidness and no thought for anyone else,if people who do this knew how painfull it was being in a crash they would not do it, i know from experience and its not nice.

[RedRover]

Well they seem to have stopped it on the A149 Barry, even without being switched on.

The first year we've had there without any major accidents, and everyone who drives along it regularly has noticed the dramatic reduction in speeders.

Well i have lived nearby for almost 4 years and don't recall any major accidents on the A149,But i have heard of many on the A47 which in my opinion is a much more dangerous road,especially near the Blofield turnoff coming from Norwich where it goes into one lane i have had a few near misses here i can tell you,why do they have to be in front of you at the cost of a near miss.

[Guest]

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&sa ... =&gs_rfai=

and Newf's opening post on this thread contained the following sentence in his reply from NCC:

"This 12km stretch of road had a bad accident record, with 127 casualties including nine fatalities and 18 serious injuries since 2003. "

[w44nty]

barry it not just norfolk mate, we run a small haulage firm in essex and travel all over the contry and the standard of driving is dreadfull, everyone needs to be somwhere yeaterday... biggest problem i see on a daily basis is selfish driving the im all right jack f**k you attitude. seen it cause so many accidents its un real. its not more cameras we need, its us as drivers need to plan our routes better and allow enough time for the journey..

Make all the LGV's stick to the 56 mile per hour restrictions,ban them when they overtake and take about 2 miles to get past,keep them in the inside lane only,in fact make them all travel at night.

I have had many overtake me when I am doing 60 mph towing my caravan on dual carraigeways and motorways,nearly buffering me off the road.

Even worse they should restrict the comercial vehicles(Vans),they do well in excess of 100mph all day long.

The moral of my story is slow down,its better to get where you are going a bit late than never at all

[senator]

Why does everyone jump on the speed band wagon? Speed does not kill, just the other week I spent 7 hours at over 500 mph and I am still alive.

What does kill is bad driving and that includes inappropriate speed, HGV's that take 2 miles to overtake causing major congestion then another HGV trying to force its way into the resulting que to spend another 2 miles running side by side. car drivers completely unable to read the road and putting the block on someone else pulling out, when it is obvious that they are going to need to, by running hard up to the car that is already stopping them pulling out. HGV's running on single carriageways without leaving space for overtaking vehicles to pull in. Car drivers who are obviously quite happy to sit in a que of traffic doing exactly the same to try and make sure that anyone who does have to get somewhere can't overtake. And Caravans obviously.

[w44nty]

Why does everyone jump on the speed band wagon? Speed does not kill, just the other week I spent 7 hours at over 500 mph and I am still alive.

What does kill is bad driving and that includes inappropriate speed, HGV's that take 2 miles to overtake causing major congestion then another HGV trying to force its way into the resulting que to spend another 2 miles running side by side. car drivers completely unable to read the road and putting the block on someone else pulling out, when it is obvious that they are going to need to, by running hard up to the car that is already stopping them pulling out. HGV's running on single carriageways without leaving space for overtaking vehicles to pull in. Car drivers who are obviously quite happy to sit in a que of traffic doing exactly the same to try and make sure that anyone who does have to get somewhere can't overtake. And Caravans obviously.

I have pulled my caravans 1000's of miles,I have always driven with the law and speed limits,when I am sitting at 50mph on a single carraigeway I cannot go any quicker because I am restricted to 50 mph by law so I am not holding people up intentionaly,however if there is a posibility to safely pull over I will do to let you all pass,just because the speed limit on single carraigeways for cars is 60mph do not mean that you are obliged to drive to the limit.

[senator]

Hi W44nty,

Thought you might pick up on that. My caravan inclusion was tongue in cheek. I will overtake when it is safe to do so providing that you haven't managed to get 6' from a lorry in front or that there are not half a dozen people behind you with 6' in between them all sitting there saying I don't know where he thinks he is going to go.

I probably have a couple of hundred miles in front of me and that extra 10 minute on the journey of 20 miles adds up when it is replicated time and time again.

[w44nty]

Hi W44nty,

Thought you might pick up on that. My caravan inclusion was tongue in cheek. I will overtake when it is safe to do so providing that you haven't managed to get 6' from a lorry in front or that there are not half a dozen people behind you with 6' in between them all sitting there saying I don't know where he thinks he is going to go.

I probably have a couple of hundred miles in front of me and that extra 10 minute on the journey of 20 miles adds up when it is replicated time and time again.

You twitched the bait and I bit

Some people are anti caravanners,a boat is a caravan that floats.

No offence taken,just light hearted banter

[senator]

Have seen some of those, some even have the bath on the outside