Acle B.N.P.

[ChrisB]

From the report. 

 

 

 

[Paladin]

On 13/02/2020 at 22:07, Paladin said:

Getting back to somewhere near the topic, I've just returned from Loddon, where the matter of the BNP sign that had been erected in the town was on the agenda of tonight's parish council meeting.

For reasons that weren't disclosed, the email about the sign, sent out by the BA, was never presented to the council , so they never replied to it. In accordance with their policy, the BA took the silence to indicate acceptance and had the sign erected. This did not go down well with the PC, nor did they support the notion of the Broads being called a national park. They decided unanimously to ask Norfolk County Council to remove the sign.

From the Gt Yarmouth Mercury article, 31 December 2019, on the Acle BNP signs, “A Broads Authority spokesperson said: “...Iconic Broads locations have been chosen where the Broads is an integral part of a town or village, and where a positive response has been given by the parish council.”

Clearly, Loddon PC didn't give a "positive reponse" before the sign was installed. So was the statement to the Press a lie, a distortion of the truth, or just another "unfortunate choice of words"? The pattern continues to take shape.

[JennyMorgan]

1 hour ago, Vaughan said:

Of course, Norfolk has always been famous for its directions - you just have to ask the locals.

Like the time a gentlemen motorist from London stops to ask the way, of an old boy coming out of a village pub :

"Excuse me, I am trying to get to Potter Heigham".

"Ooo.  Well if yew was wontin' ter git ter Potta,  yew wouldn't wanta start from hair".

"So you don't know the way there?"

"Well yis, that oi dew an' all. But not from hairabouts".

"Don't yew even know where you are?"

"Will now, not so's you'd notice. But thin agin, that int me woss lorst!"

 

 

Many a true word spoken in jest!

[Paladin]

17 minutes ago, ChrisB said:

From the report. 

 

 

 

How can the Sandford Principle be said to be "enshrined in law in section 62", when the wording of section 62 is substantially different from that of the Principle? This is just a further example of the muddled thinking behind the review. Even the text to which the footnote relates conflates the two.

[enshrine: to preserve or cherish as sacred.]

[ChrisB]

2 minutes ago, Paladin said:

How can the Sandford Principle be said to be "enshrined in law in section 62", when the wording of section 62 is substantially different from that of the Principle? This is just a further example of the muddled thinking behind the review.

[enshrine: to preserve or cherish as sacred.]

I can only suggest that you ask the authors of the very numerous documents that use those exact words.

[Paladin]

Just now, ChrisB said:

I can only suggest that you ask the authors of the very numerous documents that use those exact words.

Sheep led by donkeys? Or just people pushing a particular agenda very hard? Perhaps they should have regard to Newton's Third Law of Motion - for every action in nature there is an equal and opposite reaction.

[ChrisB]

For some clarity: My reading of the Glover report suggests that if Sandford is applied as in the National Landscape vision then we would see a reversion to being nearer the 1974 definition.

 

 

[Paladin]

4 minutes ago, ChrisB said:

For some clarity: My reading of the Glover report suggests that if Sandford is applied as in the National Landscape vision then we would see a reversion to being nearer the 1974 definition.

 

 

I can't actually see how that extract supports your opinion.

It's interesting that the extract confirms the opinion I have held, and expressed, for years, regarding the difference between the Sandford Principle and section 62, and that it points out that it's the "issue at the heart of the Sandford Principle" that has been enshrined, not the Principle itself. A small but highly significant difference. Which makes it all the more questionable that other references in the report are so misleading.

[ChrisB]

The extract is purely to explain the difference. The fact remains that Sandford is alive and well in many minds. It was only killed but not buried in 1995 and as if subject to cryogenics could be due a resurrection in a more robust form and covering a far greater area of influence if the report is accepted. Will the report be a priority? Or sit unread gathering dust? Only time will tell.

[Paladin]

11 minutes ago, ChrisB said:

The extract is purely to explain the difference. The fact remains that Sandford is alive and well in many minds. It was only killed but not buried in 1995 and as if subject to cryogenics could be due a resurrection in a more robust form and covering a far greater area of influence if the report is accepted. Will the report be a priority? Or sit unread gathering dust? Only time will tell.

Thank you for the explanation. The problem with relying on outdated principles (small p) is that when the inevitable legal challenge comes, there is no defence. For example, if an authority considered a situation in the light of the Sandford Principle, rather than section 62, they would come very unstuck.

A precept that has stood me in good stead, professionally and pesonally, over more years than I care to remember is "Learn the rules thoroughly, then you know just how far they can be bent before they break". It's generally the ones who don't know the rules that get themselves into trouble.

[batrabill]

Are you saying that since 1995 - 25 years - the legal basis of “Sandford” hasn’t been tested? I thought this was the dreaded weapon that Dr Packman was itching to use, but it looks like it isn’t, and has never been very important. 

The Boogie Man isn’t so scary. 

[floydraser]

10 hours ago, D46 said:

 

I wouldn't mind but what's the point in marketing and area to people be they locals or visitors that are actually in that area it's rediculous to say the least , proper marketing is carryed out in area much further away from the area or attraction being marketed .

 

Marketing covers a very broad spectrum. Keeping the front of your corner shop clean is part of marketing as is an advert in the local rag. In this thread recently I have seen pin badges advertising the BNP at a local hotel which are promotion, backed up by the signs. Just because the wider promotion is not so visible, doesn't mean it's not happening.

10 hours ago, D46 said:

 

Personally I see this as one person in the authority making a statement of " look what I've achieved" not that he's achieved anything , 

He's had the top job for over 20 years according to what I have read on this thread. No one is apparently clever enough to dislodge him. That in itself is quite an achievenment and even if anyone does, it would be an empty victory after all this time. Bit like Ms Thatcher vs miners.

[Paladin]

1 hour ago, batrabill said:

Are you saying that since 1995 - 25 years - the legal basis of “Sandford” hasn’t been tested?

No, that's not what I'm saying. Your skill at interpretation hasn't improved yet.

[floydraser]

Isn't this Glover report just that, a report? Surely it will, and already has, prompted comments which should be taken into account before taking things further. Sandford will most likely be binned for a modern replacement.

I think there will be National Landscapes in the future after all the discussions have been taken into consideration. It will held back and pushed out at a convenient time as “good news” to try and fill the shadows of bad. For instance when someone shouts about the negative impact of HS2 on the environment, we'll get, “But look at what we're doing with these new National Landscapes!”.

They will have a budget of around £2.50 but it will be claimed as being plenty. The people appointed to run it all will have to tick all the diversity boxes but there will be conveniently, no talent boxes to tick. A bit like those trying to organise reverse charge VAT, IR35 tax and Universal Credit.

Dr JP may be replaced but not sacked or disciplined; shame for all those here who wanted their names on a brass plaque for getting rid of him.

[grendel]

1 hour ago, batrabill said:

Are you saying that since 1995 - 25 years - the legal basis of “Sandford” hasn’t been tested?

probably not, but section 62 or the environment act probably has been many times, hence your insistence that sandford hasnt been seen to be applied. its just that sandford (in the guise of section 62) has stuck in peoples minds as the name for the principle, whatever it is called, that is what most laymen and even some report writers think it is called.

[D46]

2 hours ago, floydraser said:

Marketing covers a very broad spectrum. Keeping the front of your corner shop clean is part of marketing as is an advert in the local rag. In this thread recently I have seen pin badges advertising the BNP at a local hotel which are promotion, backed up by the signs. Just because the wider promotion is not so visible, doesn't mean it's not happening.

He's had the top job for over 20 years according to what I have read on this thread. No one is apparently clever enough to dislodge him. That in itself is quite an achievenment and even if anyone does, it would be an empty victory after all this time. Bit like Ms Thatcher vs miners.

Having worked in marketing for a good few yrs I think I'm pretty clued up on what it is .

The fact that Dr packman hasn't been replaced is very much down to the lack of accountability for his actions and nothing more , that's exactly the reason he's been in the job 20 yrs or so it's certainly not for his performance , regarding Margaret Thatcher at least she was accountable to the government and indeed the population , so no it wouldn't be a hollow victory it would be a victory for common sense , as for the miner's strike that's much more complicated than you appear to make it and I put that period down as a tragedy rather than a victory for any side .

[D46]

39 minutes ago, floydraser said:

Isn't this Glover report just that, a report? Surely it will, and already has, prompted comments which should be taken into account before taking things further. Sandford will most likely be binned for a modern replacement.

I think there will be National Landscapes in the future after all the discussions have been taken into consideration. It will held back and pushed out at a convenient time as “good news” to try and fill the shadows of bad. For instance when someone shouts about the negative impact of HS2 on the environment, we'll get, “But look at what we're doing with these new National Landscapes!”.

They will have a budget of around £2.50 but it will be claimed as being plenty. The people appointed to run it all will have to tick all the diversity boxes but there will be conveniently, no talent boxes to tick. A bit like those trying to organise reverse charge VAT, IR35 tax and Universal Credit.

Dr JP may be replaced but not sacked or disciplined; shame for all those here who wanted their names on a brass plaque for getting rid of him.

No need to worry about who's name will be on that brass plaque  that's a obviously going to be only one person Dr packman , but for that to happen he would need to be judged on his actions ie accountable .

In truth he's probably the biggest reason that quangos should be made accountable .

Tell me this , why is he pushing so hard this BNP situation ? Is it for the benifit of those that live and work here and the infrastructure or is it another reason ? .

Not having the tourism figures for before and after this BNP issue started I can't really comment but I'll stick my neck out and surgest there's barely any increase in footfall .

[floydraser]

1 hour ago, D46 said:

Tell me this , why is he pushing so hard this BNP situation ? Is it for the benifit of those that live and work here and the infrastructure or is it another reason ? .

I wouldn't have a clue. I do know that if I had tried harder at school I may be doing his job right now, how about your good self? With all your many years in marketing surely you of all people can see his strategy?

[D46]

1 minute ago, floydraser said:

I wouldn't have a clue. I do know that if I had tried harder at school I may be doing his job right now, how about your good self? With all your many years in marketing surely you of all people can see his strategy?

I could if it was really marketing , sadly a heck of a lot of it is nothing like marketing , to attract visitors you market your product far and wide not on the doorstep .

Successful marking involves addressing the audience outside the area in which you are , no one will increase visitors Numbers with signs in an area you have already traveled too or Indeed live in , simply because if you have managed to get those people here they will already know about the BNP they don't need reminding of where they are , marketing is ment to attract people to your brand etc not remind them they are using the product .

[floydraser]

14 minutes ago, D46 said:

I could if it was really marketing , sadly a heck of a lot of it is nothing like marketing , to attract visitors you market your product far and wide not on the doorstep .

Successful marking involves addressing the audience outside the area in which you are , no one will increase visitors Numbers with signs in an area you have already traveled too or Indeed live in , simply because if you have managed to get those people here they will already know about the BNP they don't need reminding of where they are , marketing is ment to attract people to your brand etc not remind them they are using the product .

So apart from marketing in a hotel which I think would be marketing to people from outside the area, unless you are about to enlighten me that hotels are only for local people for the sake of argument, do you think he's not pushing the BNP brand any further than that? Being that he's a clever bloke.

[rightsaidfred]

27 minutes ago, floydraser said:

I wouldn't have a clue. I do know that if I had tried harder at school I may be doing his job right now, how about your good self? With all your many years in marketing surely you of all people can see his strategy?

Like D46 I have some experience of marketing along with various other fields of operation and would confirm that this has no bearing on true marketing practise added to which marketing is not part of the BA remit but yes I can see his strategy and it has nothing to do with what is beneficial to the Broads themselves that would be better served by concentrateting  on the infrastructure and less on self promotion.

Fred

[D46]

6 minutes ago, floydraser said:

So apart from marketing in a hotel which I think would be marketing to people from outside the area, unless you are about to enlighten me that hotels are only for local people for the sake of argument, do you think he's not pushing the BNP brand any further than that? Being that he's a clever bloke.

A hotel that's in the defined area , how on Earth will that attract anyone who's not already there ??? Dr packman might be clever but don't disregard others who have proven history in the subject of marketing , I guess you'll want my CV next ?? .

Hotels are I accept not just got locals and visitors use them but the fact remains they have not visited on account of any marketing by BA as they do not currently do it far and wide and that is where true marketing is judged .

[floydraser]

8 minutes ago, rightsaidfred said:

Like D46 I have some experience of marketing along with various other fields of operation and would confirm that this has no bearing on true marketing practise added to which marketing is not part of the BA remit but yes I can see his strategy and it has nothing to do with what is beneficial to the Broads themselves that would be better served by concentrateting  on the infrastructure and less on self promotion.

Fred

Thank you Fred, for a more constructive point.

So far I've read a lot about what he shouldn't be doing, how about the alternatives: 1. promote the BNP. 2. sit on his hands. 3.???

 

[rightsaidfred]

How about just improve and maintain the Broadd for what they are and always have been.

Fred 

[floydraser]

15 minutes ago, D46 said:

A hotel that's in the defined area , how on Earth will that attract anyone who's not already there ??? Dr packman might be clever but don't disregard others who have proven history in the subject of marketing , I guess you'll want my CV next ?? .

Is it in the defined area? I thought we didn't know. No point in keeping the front of your corner shop clean and tidy then as customers only visit once? Word of mouth and the displaying of solidarity with local businesses.

Spare me your cv until bedtime, it'll help my insomnia.