Dishonesty Regarding Toll Rise?

[D46]

1 hour ago, Paladin said:

The comparison between the Broads and the CaRT costs is also used by the BA to justify tolls increases, but the comparison is unrealistic for so many reasons.

But cost comparisons? Well, the toll for my grp cruiser on the Broads last year was £448.41. If I took it to CaRT territory and licensed it for the rivers, it would cost £370.43.

Yes, it would cost £617.39 if I took out a licence for canals as well, but could I realistically use a 12’ beam grp boat on the canals? I don’t think so.

Hardly a fair comparison really , if you look how far you could go on a section of river it's not far before you cross onto a canal , as for the canals bring restricted to craft less than 12' beam that's not right either many wide beam boats are 12' beam and it's very possible to use the wide canals again of which there are many , it's not the  canal that restrict use it's locks and if 2 narrow boats can fit comfortable in a lock on certain canals then 12' is easy and there are plenty of cruising areas .

[Paladin]

2 hours ago, D46 said:

Hardly a fair comparison really , if you look how far you could go on a section of river it's not far before you cross onto a canal , as for the canals bring restricted to craft less than 12' beam that's not right either many wide beam boats are 12' beam and it's very possible to use the wide canals again of which there are many , it's not the  canal that restrict use it's locks and if 2 narrow boats can fit comfortable in a lock on certain canals then 12' is easy and there are plenty of cruising areas .

I bow to your knowledge of the canals, as I know you have personal experience of them, but, according to the advice on the CaRT web site, wide beams are greatly limited in their ability to navigate the system, their list of canal dimensions shows widths of 7' or even less, and some tunnel heights would preclude my boat from getting through.

But I agree with you, the comparison between the Broads and the CaRT estate is unfair. Chalk and cheese, really.

[D46]

9 minutes ago, Paladin said:

I bow to your knowledge of the canals, as I know you have personal experience of them, but, according to the advice on the CaRT web site, wide beams are greatly limited in their ability to navigate the system, their list of canal dimensions shows widths of 7' or even less, and some tunnel heights would preclude my boat from getting through.

But I agree with you, the comparison between the Broads and the CaRT estate is unfair. Chalk and cheese, really.

How do you KNOW I've personal knowledge of them ????  I've not stated I have , it's very clear from the waterways maps which are wide and which are narrow , sure bridges and tunnels are a problem but many people use tall craft on the navigations I really can't see a width of 7' or less as the old working boats were 7' beam and wouldn't be able to navigate , 6' 10" is the now industry standard and has been for a long time .

No one needs any specialist knowledge of the canals to know in alot of areas it's very possible if you look in detail of the chosen areas you wish to cruise .

What amazed me most really way you drew the comparison to start with , when Dr packman did that when the tolls rose considerably you yourself if I remember correctly critisied him for it not being relivent as C&RTs areas as are the EA ones entirely different to the Broads , then again no one needs special knowledge to know that .

[ChrisB]

[D46]

20 minutes ago, ChrisB said:

Exactly what I meant .

[woodwose]

It seems to me that there has always been a difference in the tolls paid by different types of boat. An increase in the tolls for more polluting types can hardly come as a surprise. As the effects of climate change become more and more apparent, this process will accelerate, not just on the Broads, but everywhere that fossil fuels are used. What is happening on the Broads merely reflects national and indeed international concerns and it is part of the process of moving to a more sustainable future.

The money raised does not have to be spent on eco projects. It is just as valid to spend it on moorings or any other project to maintain or improve the Broads and their infrastructure. I think it has been made clear in this instance what the money is for, and surely, that is sufficient.

The actual increase does not strike me as very much. To really force people to change to more eco friendly systems it will have to be substantially more. This may well come and sooner than you think. Of course, changing out all the boats on the Broads will not make a huge difference to carbon emissions, but every little helps. People will only really do it if it hits them in the pocket and I have got a feeling its going to. Would I buy another boat with an internal combustion engine? Not a chance.

Nigel (Early Adopter of Ludham)

[ChrisB]

Action to combat Climate Change is something that will become an everyday part of our lives. There is a strong argument against the connection of new build dwellings to the gas grid. Quite where all the extra electrical power needed will be generated not sure.

I for one, would prefer an all electric house, water going round pipes into rediators is a bit archaic to say the least.

[grendel]

it would probably be more accurate to say that any houses connected to the gas grid will be built to a standard that would ensble easy changeover to hydrogen, as that is the way they are looking with the gas network. the big issue going all electric is as you say finding the extra power, this can be somewhat mitigated by higher insulation standards and solar roofing to reduce the dependency upon external resources. as with everything installing these systems in a new build is far more efficient than retro fitting them.

on the subject of hydrogen, using that as a fuel either directly or in a fuel cell would be the way to go with propulsion. but then the infrastructure needs to be in place before people will change.

[ChrisB]

There is also a huge cost implication in many "Green" solutions. I normally change my car every three to four years and have looked into plug in hybrid and recently pure electric as the driving range has so improved from certain manufacturers.

Leaving Natural Law considerations aside I just can not justify the expense when last September my son and I undertook a trip to The Dales, Lakes and Borders. The car was fully laden with guns, rods, food and clothing of all types plus over 1000 cartridges in the rear footwells. My 125hp Ford 999cc Ecoboost returned 43mpg through it's 6 gear auto box.

As I said Natural Law would dictate we all drive electric but at present for my 8K miles per annum, 3K+ of which are done in four weeks of trips it is a financial non starter.

[grendel]

i am in a similar circumstance for different reasons, I would love an electric vehicle, but my daily commute is 124 miles which is right at the extreme end of most ev ranges, when I travel to the broads its above the range of an electric vehicle without a long charging stop half way, when I do use the car, most trips are 50 miles plus, a recent trip to training was canterbury to leeds, well out of the range of electric vehicles at present. where i work there are no electric charging facilities, so charging through the day is not possible, so for my 33,000 miles a year travel, electric is not an option, thus i am currently using a diesel car, I dont buy new, so its an older car, maybe not quite as clean as a modern car, but to my mind buying new every 3 yeaars is not a green option when a car has to be scrapped for nearly every new vehicle on the road.i would rather spread the scrapping carbon cost over as many years as i can get out of a car. (currently on 197,000 miles)

[Islander]

I do wonder how many readers of this thread would not be able to charge an electric car at home. My car is the other side of the river so not practical to run a cable. A lot of property along Yarmouth Rd, as elsewhere, don't have off road parking. Surely we aren't going to be able to run cables over pathways for safety reasons. In the boating world we would have to have charging/power hookup at every home mooring. As to removing my 2.5 BMC and fitting a whole new electric drive would cost more than my boat is worth and, I'm sure, would not add as much in value. 

If they want me to produce less carbon dioxide I'll do less hopping between 24hr moorings and stay for 48  .

Colin 

[JanetAnne]

2 hours ago, grendel said:

....carbon cost over as many years as i can get out of a car. (currently on 197,000 miles)

Beat ya!

 

[unclemike]

 agreed colin, I live in  a block of 28 flats, what do we do hang charging wires from upstairs windows, I think not,  people who think electric propulsion is the way forward live in cloud cuckoo land, it wont happen, it may be politically good being seen to be green but realistically it's a non starter.

[vanessan]

4 minutes ago, JanetAnne said:

Beat ya!

 

Yeah, but how many of us have private aircraft?? 🤣

[Paladin]

"Keep it relevant
Do not stray from the topic discussed."

That didn't last long

[unclemike]

looks like a mondeo to me

[JanetAnne]

25 minutes ago, Paladin said:

"Keep it relevant
Do not stray from the topic discussed."

That didn't last long

Sorry 

Forgot which thread I was in.

[Paladin]

2 minutes ago, JanetAnne said:

Sorry 

Forgot which thread I was in.

I think the thread drift happened before your post, but I don't mind if you don't

[JennyMorgan]

Yee haa, we pay less tolls than you do so yar boo sucks!!

I rarely, if ever, see sailing cruisers moored at 24hr moorings, or plugged into the leccy,  so of course they should pay less! 

[rightsaidfred]

1 hour ago, chameleon said:

 agreed colin, I live in  a block of 28 flats, what do we do hang charging wires from upstairs windows, I think not,  people who think electric propulsion is the way forward live in cloud cuckoo land, it wont happen, it may be politically good being seen to be green but realistically it's a non starter.

Sadly climate change has gone from a natural progression of the planet to a multi billion pound/dollar industry.

Fred

[Islander]

Let's all switch to sail boats and see what happens to the river tolls. 

Colin 

[vanessan]

17 minutes ago, JennyMorgan said:

I rarely, if ever, see sailing cruisers moored at 24hr moorings, or plugged into the leccy,  so of course they should pay less! 

Does happen though, not often admittedly but does happen. 

[rightsaidfred]

 

29 minutes ago, JennyMorgan said:

Yee haa, we pay less tolls than you do so yar boo sucks!!

I rarely, if ever, see sailing cruisers moored at 24hr moorings, or plugged into the leccy,  so of course they should pay less! 

Try Ranworth where they often take over the day boat dyke as well as on the main mooring.

Fred

[Guest]

58 minutes ago, JennyMorgan said:

I rarely, if ever, see sailing cruisers moored at 24hr moorings, or plugged into the leccy,  so of course they should pay less! 

Ahh yes, let's create a saily/stinky divide 

You wafi's use far more of the water though don't you, whilst us gas guzzlers head straight down the river (or at least try), you rag and stick lot go weaving this way and that, like a drunk Jay on his way home from the pub 

[Paladin]

1 hour ago, JennyMorgan said:

Yee haa, we pay less tolls than you do so yar boo sucks!!

I rarely, if ever, see sailing cruisers moored at 24hr moorings, or plugged into the leccy,  so of course they should pay less! 

Sails made from petrochemical products, grp hull, harmful wash, no registration number display...what's not to like?