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NorfolkNog

Boat For Sale - Alphacraft 42 Dual Steer

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Last year Katie and I hired a picnic boat from Martham so we could explore beyond “that bridge” , stunning !!!

 

When we purchased Cerise Lady we knew that we would not be able to pass PH bridge nor indeed Wroxham (sadly) , but we loved the boat and made the decision that we would forgo them. 
 

I presume that you purchased into Lightning in the 90’s when she could pass under PH or was it at a later date when it was known she could no longer pass PH ?

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6 minutes ago, CambridgeCabby said:

Last year Katie and I hired a picnic boat from Martham so we could explore beyond “that bridge” , stunning !!!

Shhhshh, i like my little exclusive quiet corner of the broads.

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Yep, both views noted. My view is, restore clearance to that which it was when boats designed to make the trip can do so again

 Is that so unreasonable if it is achievable? Comment aimed to marsh man.

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Every investment in infrastructure improvements have to show a X x factor return before public money is committed. The cost would be enormous.

That is before you navigate the minefield of touching a listed structure. Given the bridges type of construction and great age it would need to be demolished and rebuilt, or sold to a gullible American.:default_biggrin:

Nice idea but pigs will fly first.

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4 hours ago, CambridgeCabby said:

 I presume that you purchased into Lightning in the 90’s when she could pass under PH or was it at a later date when it was known she could no longer pass PH ?

No, she was built in the 90s, and went into syndicate use in 2008. I bought my share in 2014. 

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‘Pigs will fly first’ is a gullible American that unlikely?

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1 hour ago, MauriceMynah said:

Yep, both views noted. My view is, restore clearance to that which it was when boats designed to make the trip can do so again

 Is that so unreasonable if it is achievable? Comment aimed to marsh man.

I have to say John, yours is the post that best sums it up, "is that so unreasonable?" is exactly the right question.  It`s not as though i`m saying it should be broken up or replaced with a footbridge only etc etc, i just think that it should be made more usable by taking it back to the way it was years ago. I know there are a selfish minority that don`t want others to be able to cruise the area, "keeping for themselves", but if they don`t want others to be able to use that area of the broads network, but they can, then surely it should only be payed for by those that use it. If you don`t use a road vehical, do you expect to pay road tax?.

It`s also worth knowing that on other historic threads on here, certain members who had to pay road duty on petrol for their petrol engined boats complained that "they`re not using their boats on the road, so why should they pay road duty on petrol"?. If you can`t use something or other, you SHOULD`NT be paying for it, and that includes the upper Thurne network. 

I wonder if BA Tom is reading this, and whether he`ll take the idea to the BA?.

As for the bridge allegedly being grade 2 listed, only grade 1 listed have to remain the same, grade 2 and below can be changed. It`s also worth knowing that the if grade 2 listing meant the bridge had to remain in its present state and condition, it DOES`NT mean it has to remain in its present state and condition "IN THE SAME LOCATION. It can quite easily be removed and rebuilt exactly as it is in a field over a stream, so for those that like to walk over it, you would still be able to do so.

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4 minutes ago, SPEEDTRIPLE said:

It can quite easily be removed and rebuilt exactly as it is in a field over a stream, so for those that like to walk over it, you would still be able to do so.

Noooo! It is history, it was built  there and should stay where it is otherwise it just becomes a folly type monument in a random field somewhere.  It is an historical and important part of the Broads and Potter Heigham.  It is a landmark.   It is the reason I love mooring near it just so I can look at the bridge and think about the history it must have seen.

We don't go to Potter just to go to Lathams lol.  Yesterday was a prime example,  taking video and yet more photos of it. It meant I spent money in Bridgestones because I wanted to see the bridge in the bad weather as we couldn’t go out on the boat. 

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12 minutes ago, SPEEDTRIPLE said:

As for the bridge allegedly being grade 2 listed, only grade 1 listed have to remain the same, grade 2 and below can be changed.

Sorry ST, that is not true.

I work on Grade 2 properties a lot, or should I say, try to.  I have 40 years of battles with bloody minded conservation officers to rely on. It is virtually impossible to do any meaningful alterations. conservation or like for like replacement is the best you can hope for.

Grade 1 or Grade 1* you can forget doing anything unless you have bottomless pockets and your vision is the same as the Listed Buildings Officer.

 

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ST looking at the answers to your surveys i would say your selfish minority is in fact a majority, since nobody seems to want the bridge raising (or messed around with)

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I know that topic-creep is not uncommon but this started out as a thread about a particular boat that’s for sale. We do seem to have veered a long way off course with this one!

Has anyone got anything else to say about any boats currently up for sale?

Personally one of my favourite things to do when I visit Potter Heigham is to have a look around the boats for sale. But I would never want one as big as 42 feet!

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This is doing a great job of keeping this topic on top folks! 

Keep it coming! :default_biggrin:

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6 minutes ago, SwanR said:

We do seem to have veered a long way off course with this one!

:default_biggrin:

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The original link doesn’t seem to go anywhere now so maybe the boat is sold!!

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19 minutes ago, grendel said:

ST looking at the answers to your surveys i would say your selfish minority is in fact a majority, since nobody seems to want the bridge raising (or messed around with)

On this thread maybe, but how many members does this forum have, how many have replied, and how many that HAVE`NT replied either agree or disagree with me?. Yes, the vast majority that have replied have disagreed with me, that`s their parogative, and that`s democracy, so i accept their views. I think i`l bring it up with the BA though, as if i`m never going to be allowed to use many miles of the broads, why should our syndicate have to pay for it?. 

You said yourself Grendel that you regularly use the Dartford river crossing, if you use it 100 times a year, how would you feel if the tunnel bods said you would have to pay for 150 crossings to do the 100?. I doubt you`d be very chuffed would you?. It`s exactly the same scenario.

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so you are running a survey, most people who answer say no, but you say only a small percentage voted - sounds like you want another brexit vote.

if your boat was built capable of passing through PH, yet the occasions when it can are rare to very rare, it can still pass through potter heigham, so wouldnt get a discount anyway in the eyes of the BA, if it wasnt built to pass potter heigham, then that was your choice when you bought into it, if on the other hand it can pass through occasionally, but your syndicate have said no, then thats not the BA's fault - or the fault of the bridge, thats a decision by your syndicate, so you shouldnt get a discount.

yes i go through the dartford tunnel, theres no other choice, I use it between 400-500 times a year, twice a day per working day, and yes I get a discount for paying in advance, however they took that discount about a year back and reduced it so instead of paying £1.67 a trip £3.34 a day, i now pay £2 a crossing so £4 a day, I had no choice they just put the price up, they put the price up for the people who had to use it daily, to get more revenue, rather than claiming it back from all the people who go through and dont pay, I dont see this as the same scenario as you propose above.

besides all that, the BA will never take up on this, if only for the reason they never give discounts, and they cant police this, besides that ask them why there isnt the clearance and they will quote sea level rises (beyond their control) or weather (beyond their control), you dont get a discount on your road tax when there is snow that prevents you taking your car out, or when you are stuck in traffic for 10 hours because they shut the dartford tunnel due to an accident, if you try to argue that one you will get additional charges for the busier spots akin to the london congestion charge. maybe an extra charge to moor at ranworth?

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42 minutes ago, SwanR said:

The original link doesn’t seem to go anywhere now so maybe the boat is sold!!

Link working here 

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4 minutes ago, NorfolkNog said:

Link works perfectly for me 

Now about Potter Bridge......:default_biggrin:

I refer the honourable gentleman to the reply I gave one hour ago ... BOATS FOR SALE!!!

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3 hours ago, psychicsurveyor said:

Sorry ST, that is not true.

Errrrr, yes it IS actually, grade 1 you cannot change a thing, grade 2 you cannot change the structure but CAN change the interior fittings etc, grade 3 you have to keep the facade, but can change anything behind it. My father once worked as an engineer for the GLC, and then the Polytechnic of central London, later to become the London University. They had a great many listed buildings, listed to different grades, of which he went into great detail about how the grading system worked. Skip forward many years to modern day, and a good friend of ours is a civil engineer who has recently been involved in building restorations and has also recently told me about listed buildings he`s worked on, and the limitations allowed. The limitations applicable to grade is still pretty much as was when my father was in charge at the London Poly, and that although there are strict rules, there are also "guidelines" which one can work with to overcome certain issues. 

As for the removal of historic bridges, how come bridges such as Acle, and Wayfod, which were equally as historic allowed to be replaced?.  It seems that the claimed importance of Potter Heigham bridge only relates to peoples preferences and not progress, that progress which has been applied elsewhere, yet nobody has complained?. Dare i use the word "hypocracy" in case someone gets offended?.

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ST, there is no such thing as Grade 3.

Last week I was surveying a Grade 1 cathedral. Cathederals and churches have ecclesiastical exemption, the restrictions are worse than Grade 1 but can be ' eased' if it is a pet project.

The week before it was a Grade 1 historic house in the precincts

Next week I have to assess the structure of a flint faced, rubble filled church built 450 years ago.

Most weeks I will visit at least one Grade 2 property.

Over the years I have owned 3 listed properties.

I also act as an informal  consultant to a Bridge Wardens Trust that has been in existence since medieval times.

I would guess my knowledge is current and accurate.

As much as PH bridge may hinder access there is more chance of me flying to Mars than the bridge being moved or raised.

The cost of just the consultations and reports would run into millions.

It will never happen no matter how hard you may wish.

Now, dredging and the effects of tide and sea levels are above my pay grade and I have absolutely no idea what, if any, effect the have on clearance at PH.

 

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Why bother with the grade two structure, just dig the drainage ditch out and go round!!! :default_hiding:

Paul.

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Just to stay on topic for a start the boat offered for sale in the OP is a lot of boat for the money, though I never quite got the logic behind the dual steer option, the sliding roof made much more sense to me. 

Right that that's the on topic bit out of the way.

10 hours ago, scaniaman said:

Why bother with the grade two structure, just dig the drainage ditch out and go round!!! :default_hiding:

Paul.

 That idea is not as ridiculous as it sounds, or perhaps it is, but it is not a new idea. We are told that the bridge is not sinking, although as long ago as the 1980's it was generally accepted that it was, though the term they used then was "settling". There was even a survey done by men in hi-vis jackets and expensive wellies with theodolites and the like to measure the rate of this "settling". It was, IIRC blamed on increased water abstraction and higher volumes of heavier traffic prior to the bypass construction. It was thought, or maybe assumed that it would stop. Perhaps it will, perhaps it already has, but at the cost of significant clearance meaning that boats once capable of clearing the bridge can no longer do so. What we do know is the clearance under the bridge is much less than it was in those days, which we are told is down to a dip in water levels during the 70s and 80s but I don't accept that as relatively large boats, including smaller wherries were making passage under the bridge in the 1920s and 30s. Perhaps that was another dip?

Water levels are probably a little higher than they were, though no way does that account for the loss of clearance of a foot or more under the bridge in the last thirty years or so. When we were kids we regularly took rowing boats under the side arches, and at one point wooden boards were placed across them to stop people doing just that. I doubt you'd get Warwick Davis in a canoe through them now. As a result of those surveys a number of proposals were put forward to maintain the navigation beyond the bridge should it need to be closed to navigation, which inevitably meant bypassing it. 

That was of course in an era when maintaining the navigation held much greater importance than it does today. Of course we all know that nothing will be done in the current climate so the discussion is moot, but that doesn't stop it being worth a few minutes of our time. 

17 hours ago, psychicsurveyor said:

Grade 1 or Grade 1* you can forget doing anything unless you have bottomless pockets

Psychic, I'm confused? 1*? To my understanding there are only three grades of listing. I, II* and II? I can find no reference to I*.

I do like the idea of selling Potter Heigham Bridge to some gullible American, but do it as with London Bridge and sell the the bypass bridge on the sly. Then the money raised could be used to lift the old bridge and replace the bypass bridge with something more aesthetic.

 

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12 minutes ago, Paul said:

Psychic, I'm confused? 1*? To my understanding there are only three grades of listing. I, II* and II? I can find no reference to I*.

You are correct, a well known tipping error, should read Grade 1 or Grade ll*

:default_biggrin:

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