pump/out,shower.

[Guest]

Hi,could anybody tell me if its possible to fit a pump/out toilet, shower, and heating

in a shetland 4+2. I think its a 1992 modal with a diesel yanmar fitted.

I see there's one up for sale it might be a tad small but i should be able to handle it by

my lonesome and being a novice.

[Guest]

R.E. the above,

should have posted it under technical question's.

What a muppet.

[jimbo]

It is now simba

[Guest]

People don't seem to like showing photos of the "Heads" on their boats Simba:

http://www.shetland.owners.org.uk/galle ... 20plus%202

Maybe ask a question on that specialist forum ?

[diesel falcon]

Hi, the new one,s are fitted out quiete well see thisone for sale,has porta potti and shower,you would have to find room for a holding tank i supose?? http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=h ... h:1&itbs=1

[Guest DAYTONA-BILL]

Hi Simba, i would imagine (though i willfully stand to be corrected?) the toilet compartment on such a small boat would be a bit cramped for a shower, but a pumpout toilet and heating should`nt be a problem. You`d need to find a space for the holding tank, which can be as large or small as you want it, plus all the plumbing work. As for the heating, there are some excellent small deisel powered heating units available, and if you can locate a truck supplies (make sure it`s 12 volt), it may be cheaper than buying it from a chandlers. As i well know, space on a small boat is pretty limited, but a heating unit is a pretty small thing, so it should`nt be any problem. Also, if you`re adding a lot of extra electrical stuff, you may need to check your battery and charging unit is up to the job. Regards ............... Neil.

[Guest]

Many thanks for the info guys,maybe i should look for a bigger boat but one that i can handle myself.

There seems to be many rear canvas type boats about 27ft ish don't know what they are like to handle though.

The only boats i have ever handled is the calypso/ little gem type boats i think you guys would call them bath/tubs.

The bit that concerns me a little is there seems the be nice boats for sale with all the full monty fitted and looking very

nice indeed, however they are on the old side 30/40 years evan,i suppose they still could still give many more years of

sevice if they have been looked after though?

[Guest DAYTONA-BILL]

Hi Simba, you don`t say what your budget is?. If your looking at a Shetland 4+2 on NYA`s website, you`re looking at a £23,000 boat, so if i take it your budget is about that amount, you could pick up a nice Calypso or Safari class for much less, which would then leave you several thousand for updating bits and pieces. Also, they would already have the mod cons you mention above already fitted. Take a look at the many boatsales websites, and see what`s available, and remember to look at boatsales on other waterways, as sometimes boats are more expensive purely and simply because they are on Britains most popular waterway. Regards ............... Neil.

[Guest]

you`re looking at a £23,000 boat

Shetland 4 plus 2 boats usually go for about half that, Neil.

http://www.boatsandoutboards.co.uk/php/ ... Submit.y=0

(the 4 plus 2s are further down that page)

Quite a bit cheaper than a Safari, and a lot cheaper than a Calypso.

[Guest]

Hello guys,

steady on Neil 23k is a bit steep,maybe 18k ish is more like it and that's includes any titivation in might need.

A pump/out toilet and heating, and a vessel that easily handled solo is important to me as is of course a diesel.

The hamton111 i think as a front door which should be handy for mooring, what your opinions on purchasing a 30/40

year old boat ? Getting back to the shetland 21ft, ive never been in one to see if its big enough which should be remedied

when the better weather comes in the mean time there's no harm in looking at other alternatives.Sorry to change the

subject slightly lads, perhaps i should purchase a mooring first could this be a problem if i find the boat first.?

[Guest]

You said "Purchase" Simba ?

Whether you mean that or rent, yes definitely.

Although expensive moorings always seem to be available, good ones at a reasonable price are always at a premium.

Having said that, there's always the possibility that a secondhand boat may be sold with it's mooring, if the owner is giving up boating. You would still need to check with rented ones that the Marina is willing to transfer it to you at renewal time, as many of them have waiting lists.

[DaveS]

When we were looking for a boat, we looked at the Shetland 4+2 and dismissed it on the size of the accomodation, especially the toilet.

The toilet is very small indeed, and with an inboard engine taking up the space beneath the cockpit, I don't think there would be room for a holding tank anyway.

Having come from a large four berth touring caravan, we knew that we weren't going to get that amount of accomodation space, in a boat that was fairly new, and within our £30k budget, and so a degree of compromise, was the 'order-of-the-day'.

If you want a well equipped cruiser for the Broads, around the 21-22ft mark, with fitted Cassette Toilet, and pump out shower/wet room, then the Viking 22 is worth considering.

We opted for the Viking 24, but are now considering moving up to a larger boat.

Dave

[Guest DAYTONA-BILL]

Hi all, with regard to my comments about the 4+2 being a £23,000 boat, i just took the asking price straight from NYA`s website, and have to admit i did`nt check any others , so i stand corrected. However, as Simba says, he is looking for a boat around the mid teens, so a boat like the Elysian, or even a nicely turned out Seamaster 27 would be well within your budget, and as stated above, this would still allow for some upgrading if desired. As for being able to handle it alone, these type of boats are VERY manouverable and easy to handle single handed, as are the Hampton Safari and Calypso. Good luck with your searching, and DON`T forget to have a survey done. The cost of the survey could easily be saved in the price through negotiation. Also don`t forget to post ANY questions you may have regarding ANY boat, as the forumites will allways be pleased to help out with advice etc. Regards ................. Neil.

[DaveS]

If I am to believe what I have heard, on more than one occassion, buying an Elysian should approached with caution, as it appears they have quite a reputation for GRP problem (Osmosis and de-lamination).

The story goes that this was due to the less then ideal factory conditions under which the GRP hulls were produced.

Don't have any first hand experience of this but, but it was enough for me to dismiss the Elysian from our 'shopping list'.

If you were consider one of these boats, then it would definitely be worth doing a bit of research to see if the the problems described, are fact or fiction.

Dave

[Guest]

I'm pleased Ive asked these questions now,you've certainly given me food for thought lads.

If the consensus is a 27ft ish is easy to handle solo then i shall probably go down that road

or is that river it obviously gives me more choice.

Did you guys inspect your mooring before purchasing your boat,i know it sounds daft

just wondered?

[Guest DAYTONA-BILL]

If I am to believe what I have heard, on more than one occassion, buying an Elysian should approached with caution, as it appears they have quite a reputation for GRP problem (Osmosis and de-lamination).

The story goes that this was due to the less then ideal factory conditions under which the GRP hulls were produced.

Don't have any first hand experience of this but, but it was enough for me to dismiss the Elysian from our 'shopping list'.

If you were consider one of these boats, then it would definitely be worth doing a bit of research to see if the the problems described, are fact or fiction.

Dave

There are MANY structurally sound Elysian 27`s (and 34`s), but i have heard of this before, but only from one other person, who happens to be a fellow forumite. That said, many have spent a lot of years in hire fleets and have stood the tests of time very well. However, as you will see if you read through all the posts above again, you`ll see several people including myself have strongly recommended having a full survey done. That is the main reason of a survey, to establish whether a boat is going to be a sound but possibly cosmetic viability. If not, then just walk away and look elsewhere. It all depends on how the individual boat is maintained, so i would always recommend people to ignore the hearsay gossip, and go into it with an open mind and a full marine survey. I wonder how many people in the past have been put off the idea of owning their own boat purely and simply because of what people have said. Regards to all ........................ Neil.

[Guest]

I agree about Osmosis problems being generally exaggerated.

Most secondhand boats on the Broads that I've seen out of the water have it to some degree, (though I do admit that a small percentage have not shown any evidence of it at all.)

Over the past 15 years I've been put off three boats that showed blisters and were given discouraging reports about it by surveyors. I still see those damn boats in new ownership, with no evidence of remedial action being carried out and the blisters seem exactly the same size and number !

I investigated the costs of remedial action, from blister grinding and filling right through to complete gelcoat stripping, but the guarantees for that very expensive work was only for 5 years !

[Guest DAYTONA-BILL]

Hi Strowager, i`ve seen a couple of featured articles in some of the boat mags regarding osmosis treatment, and none of them went down the route of complete gel coat stripping and re-gelling. The most popular method was as you say "gel coat grinding and re-filling". The authors reported it as the most cost effective, and even the better of the two options. I can`t remember which mags they were in, but i`m sure one was in "Practical boat owner" a couple of years or so back. Regards ........... Neil.

[Guest]

Yes Neil, it's interesting to read boating magazine articles reaction to Osmosis over the years, from when it was first noticed in the 60's to now.

It's quite a profitable business for some companies.

Here's a photo of the blisters under a boat that I rejected after paying the surveyors report in 2001.

All over the bottom, some 20mm across.

I still see the boat on an almost weekly basis, nothing was done to it, and it hasn't sunk yet.

[Guest]

Im certainly glad i asked these questions,so first priority is to find a mooring, and now a bigger boat is still o/k for solo mooring which gives me a more choice.Did you guys stay in

B and B when looking for a suitable mooring? sounds great to me.

Simba.

[Guest]

I'm sorry lads i think Ive missed a page or two but i will master it in the end ,why are some boats afflicted with osmosis and some ain't, have boat manufacturers a aradecated this problem. Simba.

[Guest]

Good questions Simba, I wish I knew the answers !

There's a pretty good explanation of Osmosis on here:

http://www.insightmarinesurveyors.co.uk ... ersosmosis

[Antares_9]

Firstly no boats have osmosis, they have gel coat blistering which is caused by osmotic action between the chemicals in the resin and the water, fresh water like on the broads is actually worse than salt water. It has been said that it is not the bogey man it is cracked up to be and that is certainly true, but still better but one without blisters than one with (all else being equal). Modern construction methods tend to make boats less prone, the introduction of vinylester gel coat instead of the old poly was one step and the use of epoxy gel coat has taken things a step further as has vacuum bagging and other construction process improvements. It can never really be eradicated as all these materials are permeable to a greater or lesser extent. Don't get yourself too focused on it as you may well find a boat that has a case and is otherwise sound and then a substantial reduction may be on the cards. The main thing, again we never tire of repeating it on here is get a good surevyer that comes recommended and if you have any concerns about the power train have a mechanical survey too, something that is often not covered in detail by most surveys.

[Guest]

Thanks again,i didn't know that there were two separate surveys,i thought the one survey included the engine as well.