Corona Virus

[VetChugger]

5 hours ago, marshman said:

If you think that the whole economy is unimportant, then I am afraid it is a very naive view and people will regret that.

I doubt that anyone thinks the economy is unimportant but there are those of us who recognise that an economy requires LIVE people for the system to work. Countries around the world are now showing statistics that clearly demonstrate that the measures taken in the UK are either flawed or insufficient. The simple truth is that caution will save more lives and ensure more of us survive to actually  take our places in that economic recovery!

[MauriceMynah]

There are three kinds of lies. Lies, damned lies, and statistics.

[Wonderwall]

4 hours ago, Poppy said:

Well,

Total number of COVID-19 associated UK deaths

39,369

Deaths of people who have had a positive test result confirmed by a Public Health or NHS laboratory

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/

So what is killing the other 10k+ ?

I'd stab a guess that many have died due to corona virus but it hasn't been registered as such.

There is surely no denying, that for whatever reason, this island we live on has performed very poorly in combating this virus, and continues to do so.

[MauriceMynah]

.Seriously though, I would expect there to be many factors to be considered when comparing countries. Before we blame anybody, shouldn't we make sure we are comparing like with like?

Our culture is very different from some other European countries Might this affect the figures? We are for example more densely populated than either France or Germany. Could that skew the figures?

I wonder what percentage of our population lives in urban areas, and how does that compare with other countries.

As I say, so many differences>

And what other country has an advisor brave enough to go out against his own advise, to check he was right?    :-)

 

[Guest]

I'll be glad when this virus has run its course and you can find another topic to pull to pieces, I'm losing the will to live with this one...I'd rather talk about Liverpool FC........on the other hand..

[Poppy]

1 hour ago, OldBerkshireBoy said:

Ok that`s twice now you`ve left your sentences unfinished, don`t bother replying because I`m off to find the ignore button.

You know what I mean !  BREXIT !!

[grendel]

20 minutes ago, MauriceMynah said:

.Seriously though, I would expect there to be many factors to be considered when comparing countries. Before we blame anybody, shouldn't we make sure we are comparing like with like?

Our culture is very different from some other European countries Might this affect the figures? We are for example more densely populated than either France or Germany. Could that skew the figures?

I wonder what percentage of our population lives in urban areas, and how does that compare with other countries.

As I say, so many differences>

And what other country has an advisor brave enough to go out against his own advise, to check he was right?    :-)

 

my very argument with a friend, he was quoting how belgium was doing so much better with only 1/5 of the total deaths of the UK, but then their population is 1/5 of the uk.

then compare with other countries where the population density is a lot lower, ie people are further apart, he tried to counter with the fact that the population is all concentrated in the towns, my counter to that was that the distance between towns in the uk is a lot less than other countries, you can walk between towns and villages here, some places abroad they are a good drive apart, that distance must have some effect.

when they tried to compare to india, with a high population density, but low in confirmed cases and deaths, then its simple, only the higher casts of people are getting tested, only confirmed deaths are being recorded, deaths of people not tested are not being counted, as they havent first been confirmed as having the virus.while i was trying to research the numbers, i was reading reports of hospitals so overstretched they had paitients sharing beds, compare that to their 166,000 confirmed cases.

As you say, you need to be certain you are comparing like for like.

[OldBerkshireBoy]

48 minutes ago, Jemaki said:

I'll be glad when this virus has run its course and you can find another topic to pull to pieces, I'm losing the will to live with this one...I'd rather talk about Liverpool FC........on the other hand..

I was with you all the way until you went all off topic at the end there.  

[marshman]

You do really have to be careful what you believe - I think it was today I read about a study in Australia which had determined that sunshine killed the virus and that hot weather stopped it from spreading. This "major" study had looked at I believe some 749 cases and had made their decision as a result of detailed analysis! I am sure, but from such a narrow selection? Yeah right!

And tell that to those in Mexico and Brazil and others in Latin America where I guess it is warm too, who are suffering far more than others, with basic healthcare systems and very limited testing - yet are they hotter than here?

And today here in the UK they are saying that ,reluctantly, that the 2m social distancing regulation was based on outdated science and has overestimated the risk of transmission by 15 times!!! Yet that very premise has been the basis of almost all policies here ( almost uniquely throughout the world it has to be said ) and it is that very premise that is preventing schools from reopening. I sometimes think people really do want to believe the very worst they hear and can imagine!

[Smoggy]

I've said all along if someone isn't coughing and sneezing I'm comfy at a metre, if they are coughing I'd like 2 metres and if sneezing I'd prefer 3 metres as it goes further.

[ExSurveyor]

How many other countries around the world can be relied on to count the number of deaths let alone report them.

The true figure of all deaths may only be estimated when the excess deaths in all countries are compared at a later date.

40k, 50k, 60k, who knows, every one of them is a sad fact.

We can only hope that all governments can learn from what has happened and be more prepared in the future because it will happen again and it won't be in a hundred years.

This is a wake up call to the world.

[Paul]

One needs to be very careful when quoting statistics, as alone they tell us nothing, or worse, they tell us whatever we want them to. I spent over a decade working as a statistical analyst for a major travel company and trust me, there are no figures that cannot be manipulated to suit your argument. 

Take the death toll in England and Wales for example, up until the week ending 27 March 2020 it was running well behind the average of the past five years, after which it began to spike dramatically. Lock down was introduced on March 23rd so according to those figures lock down must have been responsible?

 

[finny]

5 hours ago, rightsaidfred said:

If the test proved negative why are you assuming it was Covid 19, there was a couple of nasty bugs going round before Christmas that although not fatal where quite debilitating, I am still feeling the after affects of one and I know several people who were quite ill for several weeks none of whom have had covid 19, once again it would seem speculation and rumour is still rife.

Fred

It's not rumours fred its fact based on scientific accuracy testing that our family went through last week based on the symptoms that spread through the family from December till January. 6 out the family tested that they have had confirmed covid 19 without knowing - that said who at that time knew anything really about the virus .my symptoms in January massive temperatures sore throat .eyes massive headaches and sore chest - enough in anybody's book to set alarm bells ringing hence the anti body test .

If you are lucky enough to come through this pandemic unscathed then count your blessing and be thankfull because many have not 

Finny

Edited June 3, 2020 by finny

[twowrights]

4 hours ago, MauriceMynah said:

There are three kinds of lies. Lies, damned lies, and statistics.

37% of statistics are bogus, the other 65% are accurate.

[floydraser]

I think it's unfortunate we will probably never know the effect of the panic buying episode on the statistics. Just as the virus was starting to get a hold on our tightly packed country, some idiot posted pictures of empty shelves and we all packed ourselves tightly in long ques just to help it along. No politician of any party is going to mention it again because it would lose them votes. I seem to find it easy to remember when we hit the self destruct button.

[Poppy]

5 minutes ago, floydraser said:

I think it's unfortunate we will probably never know the effect of the panic buying episode on the statistics. Just as the virus was starting to get a hold on our tightly packed country, some idiot posted pictures of empty shelves and we all packed ourselves tightly in long ques just to help it along. No politician of any party is going to mention it again because it would lose them votes. I seem to find it easy to remember when we hit the self destruct button.

Not so much of the 'we' if you don't mind !

[Ray]

19 minutes ago, Poppy said:

Not so much of the 'we' if you don't mind !

Took the words right out of my mouth, we didn't join in with all that either!

[marshman]

Nor me - I already had my air raid shelter full but sadly no one bothered to inform me it was the wrong threat about to strike....!!

[grendel]

I stayed away from that too, so what we are saying really that it is the media hype over probably a single shops empty shelves that started the panic buying, and the rest fell into place from there.

[Chelsea14Ian]

I think it was a mixture of things.The press and TV didn't  help,then people  panic buying without thinking. Supermarkets kept saying there is enough  to go round just dont panic. Many carried  on buying,much of which went to land fill.Like many we only brought what we needed,many didn't. 

 

[Tempest]

It may not be popular with some, but I really do not see any reason why you can't overnight stay in a second home, caravan, tent, motorhome or boat now!

It's about time the lobbying moved up a pace as it's getting silly now with kids going back to school, politicians queuing up to vote, thousands in parliament Square and even more queuing up for a Big Mac!

It really is time to take the next steps in opening up the Country and this would be a logical one in my opinion.

[finny]

Poor leadership from the government plays a big part .my mother lives on Cyprus they have had a tougher lockdown to the tune where you needed permission to leave the house via an app but there was no shortage of anything .the elderly and the vulnerable got priority shopping times 7am till 10 am and the only thing that could open or work was banking supermarkets small foods shops and pharmacies  - just short of a million population and a death rate in the 20's .perhaps it's just as well some of the comments on here dont live in the northwest believe me ....." its grim up north "

Finny

[Paul]

You have to remember that people were, many still are frightened. Fear is an aggressive driver and the antithesis of rational thought. We resisted panic buying, probably more down to my laid back, can't be ar**d attitude than any halo shining above my head. We did at one point have an extra packet of toilet rolls in stock, but that's about it. There were times we couldn't get some of the things we usually have. A week without biscuits never hurt anyone and with just about everything else the stock levels we normally keep in the pantry saw us through for most things. 

I'm trying not to be too quick to criticize people for what they have and haven't done, it's easy to be clever with the benefit of hindsight, but preventing panic buying was I think one thing where action was taken much too slowly, and I said the same as soon as lock down was announced. It was obvious to me and I'm sure many others here that such an instruction would lead to panic. 

According to the Guardian this morning exactly 384,679 have died so far from the effects of Corona virus. If that number is anywhere near accurate I'll show my bare backside in Woolie's window. There are still nations who don't record the majority of deaths, let alone the cause so how anybody can believe any of these figures beats me, but as a society we crave for numbers. We see it in sport now, which golfer hits the most fairways or "greens in regulation", which footballer runs furthest or makes the most tackles, which tennis player hit the most winners or unforced errors. All these stats are pointless, all the matters is who won and lost. 

So on that thought, I send best thoughts to you all, and hope for a win!

[ScrumpyCheddar]

I will put my hands up to bulk buying.. Only that we was buying For other elderly family members and elderly neighbours.. Like today the wife is out now doing our Weekly logistical shopping & her mother’s & my mum and dads and two elderly family friends.and neighbours.  I take  my hat off to her as she goes around with two trolleys then out to the car off load then back into get all the fridge and freezer stuff.. Then back home sorts all the shopping out for everyone bags it all up to deliver it this is every week.. Since we was ill with the virus.. I’m not surprised people haven’t started panic buying ibuprofen  as they reckon now it helps fight the virus.. 
 

Good news there’s enough food and goods in the supply chain system countrywide now even if there is another spike so No panic buying.. 

 

[floydraser]

2 hours ago, floydraser said:

I think it's unfortunate we will probably never know the effect of the panic buying episode on the statistics. Just as the virus was starting to get a hold on our tightly packed country, some idiot posted pictures of empty shelves and we all packed ourselves tightly in long ques just to help it along. No politician of any party is going to mention it again because it would lose them votes. I seem to find it easy to remember when we hit the self destruct button.

There's "we" and "we" in this case. The "we" in this case is the general public which is all of us whether or not we joined the queues. It highlights an underlying every man for himself attitude. Social media started the panic buying then raised thirty odd million. That's about a million for every thousand deaths. There's an interesting, if sad statistic.

We didn't queue either by the way, that's the other "we". Confusing isn't it?