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New Inn Horning


Mark42

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If I ran a popular riverside pub on the crowded North Rivers then I would charge a mooring fee, not only to control the mooring but also to be able to employ an attendant. Unlike a pub car park there is an obvious duty of care and liability, it all needs paying for.  If I frightened a few off then that would be no great loss as someone else would pretty soon come along and take up the space. 

On the other hand I don't tend to use grossly overcrowded pubs or ones that inflict mooring charges on their customers! 

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I agree totally with PW - do not people realise that nothing when it comes to this sort of thing is "free"?" If perhaps they had charged it would not be closed now? Its not as though these pub owners are rolling in cash!

All I can suggest that if people do not want to pay, then they go and search out another mooring and leave a space for those who do. There will be plenty of other punters who will pay for the privilege of mooring adjacent to a pub offering immediate access to a place like the New Inn and on a maintained and safe mooring.

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When I'm on holiday paying the odd mooring charge to be outside where I want be isn't a problem, and to be selfish if charging money puts people off then more chance of me getting in!

I have booked a mooring in the past and it's been very good, however my problem is that I have a dog, and as they only allowed dogs in the garden (I like sitting by the river) but I can only book a mooring when I know the weather is going to be good, which in this country is only a few days before. The last couple of times I could have a table but no moorings available, yeah useful as a chocolate teapot!

So hopefully the new people will realise that 'doggie people' aren't the devil incarnate, 99% of us clean up and keep our beloved pets in order, just ban the one that don't!

Hopefully they  will continue to book moorings and if I have to pay then so be it 

The experience just makes me like The Surlingham Ferry even more (if that's possible)

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To charge or not to charge, that is the question! I know that I wouldn't, it can and does cause ill feeling. First come, first served is the route that I would take. No guarantees that having booked a mooring a boat will actually turn up. Plus whilst the mooring is empty and waiting it is not making money, e.g. spending customers are prevented from mooring, lost passing trade. Mooring for customers only, obvious, but when I had a riverside pub I was continually surprised at the number of folk who wanted a mooring but didn't want to use the pub. Eventually we took to charging but with a refund on meals. Despite that we never managed to dissuade the mooring only customer! 

Perhaps a hundred pound mooring fee with matching refund in the restaurant would be the answer! 

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I think charging for a mooring could be counter productive at a pub in a place like Horning, People would feel no compulsion to dine at the establishment If they had paid a mooring fee, they could dine in or use any establishment that served food. A payment of say £10 for a mooring would represent a poor return for the business if it prevented another  boatload of diners being able to moor and spend on food and drink.

The New Inn was unique on the northern broads as you were able to book a mooring as long as you booked a table. Last year whilst we were there a couple of boats moored up whilst Gus was elsewhere, within minutes a member of staff came out to ask if they had booked a table for an evening meal, both said no they were planning on a couple of drinks and a meal on board, they were politely asked to leave. Those two spaces were quickly filled.

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2 hours ago, Gramps said:

I think charging for a mooring could be counter productive at a pub in a place like Horning, People would feel no compulsion to dine at the establishment If they had paid a mooring fee, they could dine in or use any establishment that served food. A payment of say £10 for a mooring would represent a poor return for the business if it prevented another  boatload of diners being able to moor and spend on food and drink.

The New Inn was unique on the northern broads as you were able to book a mooring as long as you booked a table. Last year whilst we were there a couple of boats moored up whilst Gus was elsewhere, within minutes a member of staff came out to ask if they had booked a table for an evening meal, both said no they were planning on a couple of drinks and a meal on board, they were politely asked to leave. Those two spaces were quickly filled.

Thing is all those who work or have knowledge of the pub industry know full well that the profit is in food sales not the wet side of things , many times in the past I've seen posts on various forums stating that the poster moored at the new inn had a few drinks and then headed off the the Chinese to be eaten onboard only coming back out of the boat to leave the following morning .

Personally I don't blame pubs for protecting themselves though there's a fine line between that and pricing yourself out of the market .

As far as horning is concerned there's little free mooring these days , hence pubs can and often do as they please , infact there are few moorings on the Northside that aren't BA ones that don't attract a charge .

There's no way a pub will give up it's mooring for a fee so the person is then free to eat elsewhere that's financial suicide , gain £10 and lose at least £20-30 even less the mooring fee of £10 so £10-20 , that still equates to a profit ( just) given the mark up on food .

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1 hour ago, D46 said:

the profit is in food sales not the wet side of things

Very true. When you are tied to a pubco such as Ei you are forced to pay eye watering prices for the beer hence margins are very slim. It is indeed the grub that makes the profit. The mooring system at the New Inn has operated for many years and seemed to work for them, so maybe that's the way to go?

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We generally moored up about 11.30 to get a space for lunch. And once we had eaten it was straight back on board and off to find our overnight mooring, so plenty of chance for someone else to get a space and the pub to get more punters through. It has never appealed to us as a place to stay overnight as we like somewhere quieter than being outside a busy pub.

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On 03/03/2020 at 07:45, D46 said:

They did however employ a attendent to assist with mooring and they have a very expensive quay heading to maintain , all of that cost has to come from somewhere with in beer an food pricing or a small mooring fee , I don't like it either but I fully understand it's a business and they are entitled to charge what they think is fair and many do ..that said many places still don't surlingham ferry for example .

In order to allow stern on mooring, the BA insisted on a mooring attendant.

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2 hours ago, Aboattime said:

In order to allow stern on mooring, the BA insisted on a mooring attendant.

Didn't know that they had stipulated that , TBH I can't think why it's no different than mooring at BAs mooring at ranworth where there was an attendant bit not now I believe , maybe it's different rules if your a business ? 

In fairness I recon that double mooring is much more dangerous than stern on and yet that's allowed under certain conditions at alot of BAs moorings .

Mooring attendents ain't going to be cheap and I don't blame businesses making a small charge especially if your not using the facility as that removes a mooring that could net them a return , if it's off set against food purchased then I really don't see why anyone who's using the facility can moan . 

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11 hours ago, D46 said:

it's no different than mooring at BAs mooring at ranworth

Ranworth is a broad with little current and a lot of space, The New Inn is on a river with significant flow and not that much space. Those are the differences that I would suspect count.

7 hours ago, VetChugger said:

The more cynical amongst us might suggest it is to make sure the maximum number of boats are accommodated on the available mooring thus generating the maximum custom!

Not cynical at all, straight forwards business practice.

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11 hours ago, D46 said:

Didn't know that they had stipulated that , TBH I can't think why it's no different than mooring at BAs mooring at ranworth where there was an attendant bit not now I believe , maybe it's different rules if your a business ? 

 

As MM said it is because that stretch of river is narrow quite fast flowing and very busy totally different to a large Broad, the same stipulation applied at the Ferry Inn when they were trialling stern on mooring there.

Fred

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1 hour ago, rightsaidfred said:

As MM said it is because that stretch of river is narrow quite fast flowing and very busy totally different to a large Broad, the same stipulation applied at the Ferry Inn when they were trialling stern on mooring there.

Fred

Fast flowing there ?? Lord help those that venture on the southern rivers to the ferry house at surlingham where it's considerably faster and more exposed to wind , they don't have a mooring attendant , besides what on earth can the atendent do stood on the bank if the boater gets it wrong or doesn't listen ??? .

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 On a personal note I wish more places would maximise their moorings

Several times I've tried to moor outside a pub to find boats moored with 20ft+ gaps both sides, when I ask nicely all have moved up except one. That boat was sat outside Stokesby Ferry at 1.00pm drinking wine and beer from a can, all other moorings were full.

We were going to have a couple of beers and a sandwich in the pub, you'd have thought I'd asked him to buy my lunch with the look he gave me, but I did convince him to move (best I not say how  :default_shocked1animated:)

I always move up when moored to give a space for someone else, it's not difficult and the right thing to do imo

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40 minutes ago, D46 said:

Fast flowing there ?? Lord help those that venture on the southern rivers to the ferry house at surlingham where it's considerably faster and more exposed to wind , they don't have a mooring attendant , besides what on earth can the atendent do stood on the bank if the boater gets it wrong or doesn't listen ??? .

At Horning there is a tidal flow, okay not like the south rivers.  Its narrow, heavily congested with hire boats, private boats and day boats plus the sailing boats.  Gus would regularly jump onto boats that were struggling to bring them in.  It was very reassuring knowing that there was someone there overseeing the boats actions, inwards and outwards especially when towing a boat which would restrict ones own movements and decisions.

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4 minutes ago, w-album said:
48 minutes ago, D46 said:

 

At Horning there is a tidal flow, okay not like the south rivers.  Its narrow, heavily congested with hire boats, private boats and day boats plus the sailing boats.

Very, very different to the southern rivers. A couple of years back, if I remember correctly, the BA were considering making part of Bramerton Common stern-on mooring. I think there were various reasons that did not happen, (no doubt BA Tom could elaborate). I expect a lot of us are glad it didn’t happen. 

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The river is squeezed at Horning particularly outside the Swan, if you look from the staithe, towards the sailing club. You'll see the quay heading is a straight line where the river was filled in .  it's several knots of water at maximum tide change, a bit less at the New Inn where it opens out a bit..

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1 minute ago, vanessan said:

Very, very different to the southern rivers. A couple of years back, if I remember correctly, the BA were considering making part of Bramerton Common stern-on mooring. I think there were various reasons that did not happen, (no doubt BA Tom could elaborate). I expect a lot of us are glad it didn’t happen. 

It wasn't just at bramerton church fen was also down for a Stern on mooring trial , at least at bramerton the quay heading is a straight line unlike church fen 

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23 minutes ago, TheQ said:

The river is squeezed at Horning particularly outside the Swan, if you look from the staithe, towards the sailing club. You'll see the quay heading is a straight line where the river was filled in .  it's several knots of water at maximum tide change, a bit less at the New Inn where it opens out a bit..

Several knot's? There's me thinking yare ran fast no wonder some boats head south if that's the case .

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Its all about the control of the boats in a confined spot - the New Inn was always fairly straightforward because you can see what is going on but the Ferry was very different. It was on a blind corner and you just would not be able to stop if you saw someone in trouble manoeuvring and taking up the whole river. Quay attendants were trialled at the Ferry but there were several issues with their control and abilities - thats why the experiment failed.

I must admit I was unaware of even a trial at Bramerton - is that one where they allow double mooring? When double mooring was originally proposed it caused an outcry - but in all honesty is there much difference to stern on, except it takes up less room in the river?  If Church Fen is full, I just go onto to Bargate - nice too!! To me stern on would not be appropriate in either position and in any case not really necessary for most of the time. Is it really necessary to have boats sticking out into the navigation by up to 45'?

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1 hour ago, D46 said:

Fast flowing there ?? Lord help those that venture on the southern rivers to the ferry house at surlingham where it's considerably faster and more exposed to wind , they don't have a mooring attendant , besides what on earth can the atendent do stood on the bank if the boater gets it wrong or doesn't listen ??? .

I take it you havnt moored there  then, it can be quite a bit quite a bit faster than most of the Bure for first timers, Gus used to walk out to a boat with difficulties or even board it if necessary no harm done.

Fred

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