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Coronavirus And The Broads

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1 minute ago, Vaughan said:

And what the Hell are we talking about tides for?

Without reading back through the thread I really don't have a clue! Perhaps it was something to do with adjacent waters? 

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And what the Hell are we talking about tides for?

We ain't, well not on this thread I hope

Griff

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As this is off-topic as such, I hesitate to post this, but what the hell. 

Firstly, I am no expert. 

I have read convincing arguments that sway me on the topic of tide blocking. I probably need educating, but if the rivers are properly tidal, why are they largely fresh water? If Tide Blocking is taking place, this provides a reason for them being fresh. 

3 minutes ago, Vaughan said:

And what the Hell are we talking about tides for?

Only because it's come up again in the course of the conversation regarding my post where I try to demonstrate that there is no extortion. 

 

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1 hour ago, EastCoastIPA said:

On another site the good doctor made mention of the fact that 50 of his staff are now working from home. Just think about that number for a minute. Since you cannot dredge or repair quay headings at home those staff must normally be office based. Doing what?

A very relevant question and one that has been repeatedly been asked. Not sure what the full total is now but last time I checked it worked out at about one BA employee per mile of waterway. I think that it's called 'empire building', probably reflects in his salary grade.

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31 minutes ago, FreedomBoatingHols said:

Mind if I buy the chips from Ormesby though? :-)

Can't blame you for that, good chippy. In fairness, whilst the Potter Chippy comes in for some criticism,  I have never had any reason to complain. How's this for topic shift? 

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1 hour ago, FreedomBoatingHols said:

don't know what you expect? This is the baseline for lots of taxes and monetary calculations. It is precisely how percentage increases work. 

Moreover though, I am perturbed by the notion of extortion. There is no extortion. The BA is not threatening to place a horse's head on your pillow or smash in your hopper windows if you don't pay your way. You have a choice; you have a boat and the river network charges you to be able to use the network (present situation excepted). Whether you chose to use that network is your decision. If you don't want to pay the "extortionate" rates (which they most certainly are not), remove the boat from the charging area. 

What I expect is to not pay a 'one of' charge multiple times.

I did not say the tolls are extortionate, I pay mine quite happily

I refered to legally extorting money, as extortion is illegal I believe you could judge it as a simple turn of phrase if you were minded to, rather than trying to be smart. Your horse's head is likely to remain attached.

As far as relief for hire businesses I am completely in favour of it and did not imply otherwise, my post was simply about paying 'one off' charges multiple times.

Best to save arguments for when they are needed and then make them well thought out and effective

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59 minutes ago, Ray said:

What I expect is to not pay a 'one of' charge multiple times.

I did not say the tolls are extortionate, I pay mine quite happily

I refered to legally extorting money, as extortion is illegal I believe you could judge it as a simple turn of phrase if you were minded to, rather than trying to be smart. Your horse's head is likely to remain attached.

As far as relief for hire businesses I am completely in favour of it and did not imply otherwise, my post was simply about paying 'one off' charges multiple times.

Best to save arguments for when they are needed and then make them well thought out and effective

My post was definitely not intended to offend you or pick as fight as you have suggested. 

My point stands though.

I object to the emotive use of quite incorrect language. Extortion is not what is happening nor was it ever happening. You might prefer to suggest now that it is a "turn of phrase" but in public forums like this, your turn of phrase could be construed as borderline libel. As someone who spent his first 10 years or so of working life as a journalist and published writer, this is something I know a bit about. It's not trying to be smart in the sense that you meant it, that's for sure. 

As for arguments with the BA, the only ones that win are those that go the the government planning executive. I won't be picking arguments the the BA  as, very soon, I will just be a private boater again, paying my tolls and enjoying the river without being beholden to customers that have flattened their batteries or rammed something. I am really looking forward to that day.  

 

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16 minutes ago, FreedomBoatingHols said:

My post was definitely not intended to offend you or pick as fight as you have suggested. 

My point stands though.

I object to the emotive use of quite incorrect language. Extortion is not what is happening nor was it ever happening. You might prefer to suggest now that it is a "turn of phrase" but in public forums like this, your turn of phrase could be construed as borderline libel. As someone who spent his first 10 years or so of working life as a journalist and published writer, this is something I know a bit about. It's not trying to be smart in the sense that you meant it, that's for sure. 

As for arguments with the BA, the only ones that win are those that go the the government planning executive. I won't be picking arguments the the BA  as, very soon, I will just be a private boater again, paying my tolls and enjoying the river without being beholden to customers that have flattened their batteries or rammed something. I am really looking forward to that day.  

 

You may prefer to suggest now that you were concerned about borderline libel but as someone who has spent many years detecting BS it is something I know a lot about.

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19 minutes ago, Ray said:

You may prefer to suggest now that you were concerned about borderline libel but as someone who has spent many years detecting BS it is something I know a lot about.

Believe me, I am not at all concerned about you being borderline libellous. 

I stated I that I didn't want to pick a fight with you. I stated that was not my intention, despite you seeing it as that.

You seem to be taking this all very personally. That is your prerogative.

However, I repeat again, I did not intend to pick a fight. I intended to make a point about emotive language.  It is a shame that you appear to refuse to accept this. 

 

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3 minutes ago, FreedomBoatingHols said:

I intended to make a point about emotive language.  It is a shame that you appear to refuse to accept this

I accept that now in full and I wish you well in your crusade against everyone's emotive language

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1 hour ago, FreedomBoatingHols said:

 . . . . very soon, I will just be a private boater again, paying my tolls and enjoying the river without being beholden to customers that have flattened their batteries or rammed something. I am really looking forward to that day.  

A decision of free choice I hope.

I wish you well in your impending retirement, apart from a creaking skeleton and accelerating decrepitude I can thoroughly recommend it.

 

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30 minutes ago, JennyMorgan said:

I  wish you well in your impending retirement, apart from a creaking skeleton and accelerating decrepitude I can thoroughly recommend it.

 

That’s the really big downside of retirement, we don’t get to enjoy it properly for long enough! ☹️

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34 minutes ago, JennyMorgan said:

A decision of free choice I hope.

I wish you well in your impending retirement, apart from a creaking skeleton and accelerating decrepitude I can thoroughly recommend it.

 

Heck. I have had less than a week at home without any sense of purpose whatsoever. I am getting through each day by flitting between disparate things whilst having absolutely zero enthusiasm for anything let alone the  mountain of things around the home that have been ignored for all the years I've been dedicating time to the business. Retirement and me will NOT be compatible. 

Free choice is the intention, but I can't see how small boat yards can get through this. £10k grants won't get close to helping out and anyone turning to the banks are likely to be asked for security, despite the government supposedly offering to guarantee 80%. I wouldn't trust a bank any more than I would trust a hyena to look after a baby. 

 

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I wish to say that I am most disappointed at the discussion on this thread today.

 

This is certainly because I am one of those who had to close a small Broads boatyard business in the last big tourism slump in 1982.  I have already described this on page 5 of the Acle BNP thread.  You may wish to look it up.

We have no idea what the Broads and its pleasure boating are going to be like after this is eventually (if ever) over : no more than we have any idea what life in the "civilised" Western World or even basic human interaction ; is going to be like.

So this is not the time to go wittering on about how much "value for money" we are going to get out of our river toll in 2021, or to start petty quibbling about para B section 4  of some ancient bye-law.  Nor to start quoting the flow of the tide on the Yare.  The last one to try to stop the tide coming in was King Canute.  And he couldn't even keep St Benets Abbey open, could he?

We must work out how to come out of all this for the best and the BA seem, so far, to be well on track for realising that.  Good for them!  Meantime I am astounded to see one or two real Broadsmen who are making posts here which seem to me bizarre and ill-considered.  I am surprised at you, gentlemen.  It seems you can't see the wood for the trees. 

So I am going back into my garage to play trains.  I shall post more of that elsewhere,  while we are are all self isolating!

 

 

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Before this situation arose airlines were going bust. People have been stranded abroad, and on cruise ships. I think the virus may well have put a lot of people off foriegn holidays at least for the short term. I therefore have all fingers crossed that when it's all over there will be a scramble for holidays at home including and especially, on the Broads. All the hire boats should be in tip top condition and ready to go. Let's hope that by Christmas we'll be moaning about overcrowding! :default_eusa_dance:

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Vaughan, I appreciate and respect your opinion and experience on this topic. Having had direct experience with at least one of the personalities involved I quite simply preach caution, regretfully we need to look beyond the trees. 

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Good evening all, some further updates for you below that you may have missed:

1. The Boat Safety Scheme (BSS) have introduced extension to safety certificates for those craft requiring an examination in the period until 14 April. It's possible this may be extended further when new Govt. guidance is issued. More information: https://www.boatsafetyscheme.org/about-us/news-and-press-releases/news-releases/nr20-001-covid-19-bss-temporary-suspension

2. We have received communication today that from Monday 30 March Network Rail will not be able to open Trowse, Reedham, Somerleyton and Oulton Broad swing bridges to river traffic. This is due to staffing issues arising from Coronavirus and the availability of mechanics. More information: https://www.broads-authority.gov.uk/boating/navigating-the-broads/boating-news/network-rail-swing-bridge-closures

3. Finally, we've managed to update the liveaboard essential service page with some more businesses who are remaining open to provide fuel, pumpouts, water etc: https://www.broads-authority.gov.uk/news/information-for-liveaboard-boaters

All the best,

Tom

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Tom 

as i commented on another thread can you confirm that during this crisis any live aboard moored on a BA 24hr mooring can stay for the duration as I know of at least two who are in the at risk category and ideally need to be on shore power if at all possible and near to facilities  

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On 26/03/2020 at 18:03, Vaughan said:

This is certainly because I am one of those who had to close a small Broads boatyard business in the last big tourism slump in 1982.  I have already described this on page 5 of the Acle BNP thread.  You may wish to look it up.

Thanks for this signposting Vaughan, it made thought provoking reading, whilst still being at school I can recall this slump with many being laid off from the hire yards and going self employed or to the private yacht building businesses in the area such as Hardy, Broom and the Oyster builders.

The outcome of COVID-19 looks to be potentially dire, I for one am attempting to support hire yards through postponement as opposed to outright cancellation.

Im guessing from other posts you must have spent half your life in France and ‘left hand drive’ as a consequence, whilst the idea of the tools and some cash to boot en voyage to warmer climes may seem a romantic adventure to some it seems like it was a fait au compli, but one which worked out okay in the end I hope?

if anything at all is left of your yard at Womack then I think it may now be the custodian of my grandfathers Norfolk punt.

 

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Andy (Freedom Boating Holidays) and I have resolved our differences amicably in private. My apologies for over reacting.

I am more than happy for any of my posts to be removed to restore a more even tempered feel to the overall discussion.

I shall take a little break, but I'll be back of course and more like my old self.

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Not sure if this has been covered already but looks like Hoseasons could be out of order here. Stand to be corrected as always of course. My full payment is due next week, I intend to sit on my hands for the moment. 

 

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12 minutes ago, NorfolkNog said:

Not sure if this has been covered already but looks like Hoseasons could be out of order here. Stand to be corrected as always of course. My full payment is due next week, I intend to sit on my hands for the moment. 

 

What would you get if they went into administration? Real question

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I think we need to be careful pondering on the legalities of how companies are behaving right now. I’ve been surprised by one directive from our management but believe it to be within their rights according to someone who knows more about these things than I. 

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9 minutes ago, Maxwellian said:

What would you get if they went into administration? Real question

They should hold money in a client account or have a specific insurance policy to cover the money. That is good practice.

Make all payments on a credit card to gain the extra protection.

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