Coronavirus And The Broads

[JennyMorgan]

1 hour ago, Poppy said:

Not going to be a problem in Beccles then....  .

  I wouldn't be too sure about that. Judging by the accents the ladies of Essex have moved up to Beccles, complete with ankle warmers!                                                                                                                                                                                                      

[SwanR]

Why do people pick on Essex? The joke wears very thin when you live there!

[MauriceMynah]

Born in Essex,  Live in Essex,  Love Essex jokes.

There is, and probably will always be, a place that just "fits" for stereo-typing jokes, be it the "An Irishman goes into a bar" or whatever. In Ireland  "an Irishman" is, I believe, substituted with "A Kerryman". 

Sorry Jean, we will just have to live with it.

Meanwhile, to get back on topic, I understand that the virus hasn't been detected on Canvey Island, where medical science believes it's terrified of catching "People".

[Meantime]

5 minutes ago, MauriceMynah said:

Born in Essex,  Live in Essex,  Love Essex jokes.

There is, and probably will always be, a place that just "fits" for stereo-typing jokes, be it the "An Irishman goes into a bar" or whatever. In Ireland  "an Irishman" is, I believe, substituted with "A Kerryman". 

Sorry Jean, we will just have to live with it.

Meanwhile, to get back on topic, I understand that the virus hasn't been detected on Canvey Island, where medical science believes it's terrified of catching "People".

That coming from a person pretending to be in Hertfordshire unless Sawbridgeworth has suddenly moved counties! and some things are not a joking matter! https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-52768143

 

[MauriceMynah]

Your point about Sawbridgeworth is fair, I hadn't updated my profile when I moved back to Essex. Your second point just comes under the heading "Gallows Humour",

[Vaughan]

A quick report from your overseas correspondent, which may, or may not, be encouraging!

In France an enormous amount of bulk cargo is still carried by water and so commercial waterways have remained open throughout.  Other waterways for pleasure only, such as the Canal du Midi, re-opened their locks on 28th May although the canals themselves have been open, for the hundreds of people who live on boats in towns and villages.  Most waterways also play a large role in water supply, farmland irrigation and electricity generation.

An article in this month's "Fluvial" magazine says that the tourist industry is still awaiting a date from the government for the start of boat hiring, although today (2nd June) all bars, restaurants and hotels are open and travel is unrestricted within the country.  It is not clear whether holiday homes and B&B can be visited but campsites and "holiday colonies" are now open.  There are still a lot of conditions applied to businesses, which mainly involve social distancing.

Of the hire boat companies, "Les Canalous" which is a marketing co-operative of small businesses, similar to a mini Blakes, don't seem to say whether they are open or not!  They just say you can change your booking date free of charge.

Locaboat, on their website, say they are now open but we drove past their main base here on Sunday and they looked well closed to me!  They have removed the boom across their basin since last week and someone has now put a flag up but that is about it.

Le Boat are saying that they estimate opening in France on June 15th and on the Thames on 12th June. They also have several pages about their precautions on the bases.  It seems you will be required to do almost all of the reception procedure on line before you arrive, including proving that you have watched no less than 7 videos on their site.  They say that boats will be thoroughly cleaned and disinfected;  linen will be on board but beds not made;  only one person from each party allowed in reception and arrivals staggered by informing the base beforehand of your exact arrival time.

The trial run will be given to the skipper and one crew only while the rest of the party stay on the bank.  They accept that a trial run cannot be given outside of the social distance and so the instructor and the clients are obliged to wear masks.  The instructor will wear gloves and sanitise anything he touches. They also say that if a case of COVID is reported on a boat it will be taken out of service for at least 72 hours.  Typically of Le Boat, it looks as though there will be even more box ticking and signing of disclaimers than usual.

So a lot of this still seems to be driven by social distancing. I may be quoting these figures out of context but I can't help noticing that total COVID deaths in France, as quoted yesterday, are just over 28,000. In the UK I believe they are said to be around 40,000. The social distance in the UK is 2 metres. In France it is one metre.

I can't help thinking of that line from the famous song by Dire Straits :

Two men say they're Jesus : one of them must be wrong.

[annv]

Thats a very good point Vaughan no body seems to now how the virus is spreading apart from the obvious, hence distancing,  the report of a women being infected after sitting in the same place as a carrier had in a church, didn't say how soon after, but!, my son who is a bus driver one of the drivers caught it after taking over from  another driver who  had but didn't know they had the virus  at the time. they now sanitize between drivers the case of truck drivers in Canada who caught it from a Diesel pump, wouldn't have thought they would have touched there face straight away, very worrying you cant wash your hands on very time you open a gate etc John

[Smoggy]

1 hour ago, annv said:

you cant wash your hands on very time you open a gate

You could wear gloves and carry a tin of ipa solvent (contact cleaner) and spray your gloves down after you've put them on and before you take them off, it won't hurt your skin as you only spray the gloves but it will hurt any nasties on the gloves.

I got change from a garage yesterday while I was wearing gloves so I took the glove off in the van and flipped inside out with the change still inside it then washed it when I got home while I washed my hands, a lot of this stuff is easy if you think it out before hand, and with the right spray you don't even use many gloves.

[OldBerkshireBoy]

1 hour ago, annv said:

Thats a very good point Vaughan no body seems to now how the virus is spreading apart from the obvious, hence distancing,  the report of a women being infected after sitting in the same place as a carrier had in a church, didn't say how soon after, but!, my son who is a bus driver one of the drivers caught it after taking over from  another driver who  had but didn't know they had the virus  at the time. they now sanitize between drivers the case of truck drivers in Canada who caught it from a Diesel pump, wouldn't have thought they would have touched there face straight away, very worrying you cant wash your hands on very time you open a gate etc John

How accurate are these reports concerning sharing seats and where is the proof? I am thinking that the people involved might possibily have been infected by other means.

[Smoggy]

There's no reason to think it can't be spread by the use of the same seat if not wiped down between people, most will touch a seat with hands when sitting down/standing up, they probably all used the same door handles on the way in/out as well.

[Oddfellow]

In the UK, the Excess Death Rate is more like 50,000. The government is  relaxing lockdown whilst we are stlll at Level Four 4 of its five level "thing" whilst the "thing" itself clearly states that "Gradual relaxation of restrictions" will only begin when the level goes down to three. 

This is receiving quite a lot of media scrutiny now. 

There was rumour that day boats could be hired form 15th June, but no statement on this yet. The Heath Secretary said earlier that their review period for lockdown would now be extended from 21 to 28 days so that better monitoring of lockdown lifting can take place.  

It seems clear that they don't know the Rs from their elbows and our infection rate remains alarmingly high but desite this, lockdown is being de-restricted and against their own published programme. You really couldn't make this up. 

The problem won't get any better in my view. Once the government says you can do X, people go out in their hoards and descend upon beaches, country parks, riverbanks, beautispots and everyone appears surprised that they weren't the only person to think of going there! Once boat hire is permitted to open again, places like Wroxham will be deluded with people, some of whom may be infected; we really have no idea, but we know that the possibility of infection increases with movement and congregation of people. 

With the daily infection rate pretty stable and the death rate being similarly stable, fag-packet statistical analysis states that the R rate must be similarly stable (accepting that the numbers have a lag). As these figures appear to have plateaued, adjusting lockdown must be being used to "nudge" the scales - to tip the balance and see what happens. It could go either way.  

Of course, there are areas of the country with high rates of infection still. The North West isn't doing so well, I understand. It's also thought that Broadland has yet to peak. 

As you begin to look more and more at the numbers and the responses, you begin to wonder what the lifting of restrictions is really being driven by. 

I remain highly cautious and am in no rush to get things moving again on the rivers and want to see real evidence rather than bluff and bluster. 

 

[Ray]

I agree.. It seems that following the science is being abandoned in favour of saving the economy rather than lives.

[marshman]

Perhaps the future is important too? I don't particularly care as it has little impact on me but perhaps our children, and their children should have a view too? What of the harm it is doing to our children denied education and those denied further education? LIke it or not, the economy is important for them  - do we know for example how many people have died of just Covid 19? Sadly only looking back will the real figure be seen and like Italy, we may well have to revise official figures downward as death certificates may not tell the whole tale. I guess some may have died of influenza too this year , but doubt that will be recorded as such.

But Ray what the figures are unlikely to ever show until much much later, is whether your statement is actually true or not. As they say, we shall see - but not me!!!

[Ray]

I can't argue with you at all MM but I have noted a lot of scientists and health care experts dissenting from of the latest easing measures and that concerns me a little.

As you rightly say, we shall see and hopefully that will include you and I 

[Lastdraft]

It can be argued that  "following the science " is why the UK is three weeks behind most countries in terms of recovery. It has been a convenient excuse for this inept governments handling of the pandemic. 

You are right Ray in that there are scientists not happy with the easing of lockdown, but I suspect there are many more who have given approval or it would not be happening , as we have been told many many times the government follow scientific advice 

[marshman]

There are just too many experts with the view  that only their position is the correct one - a bit like journalists and Forum posters!!!

 Lock the so called experts in a room and tell them they cannot come out until they either have corona virus and/or reach a believable consensus!! Not just one or two but ALL of them!!!

[MauriceMynah]

I think the government is doing as good a job as it can, and I for one am sick to death of people criticizing it's every move.

I have no doubt that I shall be criticized for this post, but to be honest I no longer care! 

[astonsong]

I agreed with you it is easy to be wise after the event

[ExSurveyor]

Everyone is an expert on everything these days.

I am happy to take the word of the scientific and medical experts, who on the whole agree. I hold in mind that any politician will put a spin on what is said and the media will twist it to serve their own agenda.

[Lastdraft]

20 minutes ago, MauriceMynah said:

I think the government is doing as good a job as it can, and I for one am sick to death of people criticizing it's every move.

I have no doubt that I shall be criticized for this post, but to be honest I no longer care! 

The highest death toll in Europe still rising, slowest to react to the pandemic, little or no PPE in place, ministers and advisors disregarding their own advice, contradicting and confusing daily press conferences, and that's a good job ?   Its a good job Piers Morgan isn't on this forum !

[gancanny]

4 minutes ago, Lastdraft said:

The highest death toll in Europe still rising, slowest to react to the pandemic, little or no PPE in place, ministers and advisors disregarding their own advice, contradicting and confusing daily press conferences, and that's a good job ?   Its a good job Piers Morgan isn't on this forum !

you are watching too much BBC

[grendel]

27 minutes ago, psychicsurveyor said:

Everyone is an expert on everything these days.

I am happy to take the word of the scientific and medical experts, who on the whole agree. I hold in mind that any politician will put a spin on what is said and the media will twist it to serve their own agenda.

yes they read all about it on facebook.

 

8 minutes ago, Lastdraft said:

The highest death toll in Europe still rising, slowest to react to the pandemic, little or no PPE in place, ministers and advisors disregarding their own advice, contradicting and confusing daily press conferences, and that's a good job ?   Its a good job Piers Morgan isn't on this forum !

he would get banned under tos for talking party politics quite quickly)

[Oddfellow]

2 hours ago, marshman said:

Perhaps the future is important too? I don't particularly care as it has little impact on me but perhaps our children, and their children should have a view too? What of the harm it is doing to our children denied education and those denied further education? LIke it or not, the economy is important for them  - do we know for example how many people have died of just Covid 19? Sadly only looking back will the real figure be seen and like Italy, we may well have to revise official figures downward as death certificates may not tell the whole tale. I guess some may have died of influenza too this year , but doubt that will be recorded as such.

But Ray what the figures are unlikely to ever show until much much later, is whether your statement is actually true or not. As they say, we shall see - but not me!!!

I am not at all sure that the number of people that died solely of Covid-19 is relevant. People are dying. Vulnerable people are dying because this disease is causing massive complications. Maybe we wait until all the sick people have been killed off.....

The future IS important. Tomorrow is important and, for thousands in ICU, so is their next breath because there are still 300 or so people passing every day from the effects of this. 

Opening the economy too soon and too quickly is likely to make the infection rate rise. We keep hearing about how masks are important, yet today, my son's school sent out a missive that tells us that the education department does not recommend them. Why is it appropriate in shops and not classrooms? After all, the child could go into a shop without one, contract the virus and then take it to school. None of these questions seem to be addressed. There seems to be no joined-up thinking or communication between government departments and this causes more confusion and, for me, generates a very real reticence to actually get out and try to be "normal" because I don't believe a word of it. This draws into something someone else said about following what the scientists are saying which is increasingly at odds with the Government message. 

Given that the Government wants "normal" or as close to "normal" as we can get, you would think and hope that it would invest the time in communicating messages properly to help us back to whatever normal will look like. 

My son is in Year 10, facing exams supposedly next year and the school wants to know if we will send him in given the latest missive. What's more important right now? Health or exams? Given the serious amount of leeway that the education system is going to have to adopt in the next few years because of this, the exams seem less important right now than keeping safe. 

Quite how Maurice can consider the is government doing a good job is beyond me. The death numbers alone are staggering and the closest thing it has to anything being "world beating". 

[Victoryv]

I believe they are doing a reasonable job, there was no manual to follow.

I have my own business and thanks to the grants etc have at least a hope of a future, I also have cancer, apart from my treatment stopping on the grounds that I was more at risk from Covid the service I have received from the NHS has been brilliant.

The upside of not having treatment is, I feel relatively well,I would love to live life to the full before my treatment starts again, and would take and have taken , thought through risks, to make my life as normal and enjoyable as possible, chemotherapy has robbed me of nearly two years, Covid is not taking anymore.

 

[ranworthbreeze]

2 hours ago, Lastdraft said:

The highest death toll in Europe still rising, slowest to react to the pandemic, little or no PPE in place, ministers and advisors disregarding their own advice, contradicting and confusing daily press conferences, and that's a good job ?   Its a good job Piers Morgan isn't on this forum !

If Piers Morgan was on the forum I guess most of us would leave, he is like Marmite and I can't stand ether of them.