Boris Says We Can Go Boating!! - (Not sure he did we must wait clarification (edited by Maxwellian)

[Meantime]

3 minutes ago, Poppy said:

The tubes have been mentioned more than once. Let's not forget tha TFL reduced the frequency and size of trains because of 'reduced demand'. 

This now needs to be addressed - urgently.

Again though political games are being played by the unions and the mayor of London. Running more trains will enable social distancing. Social distancing on trains is going to cost more money. The mayor and TFL need to raise that money from somewhere. Increase the fares? or a central government grant to run the service more frequently and at less capacity.

[Oddfellow]

1 minute ago, JennyMorgan said:

Whilst my common sense tells me that if cabin cruisers are used as day boats then there will, inevitably, be those that abuse the situation, which would surely not be preferable! 

Freedom has always offered cabin cruisers as day hire. They are incredibly popular. 

However, the point is that the safety aspects of hiring anything whilst this infection remains rife, for me at least, will keep the business closed. 

The crux of this point is simple. If you OWN a cabin cruiser, you can do what you want and face whatever legal consequences the might be. If you want to RENT one, the challenges are: 1) who will offer this 2) who's gonna offer an overnight booking? I suspect question 1 will see one or two possible day operators but question 2 will be a big no for some weeks or months yet.  

[JennyMorgan]

24 minutes ago, FreedomBoatingHols said:

Peter, do you not think that creating certain rules for certain areas would be hugely dangerous in the interpretation and adherence to rules? 

It would indeed be.

But the Broads is different to London for example, obvious statement, but in some respects different areas have their own unique problems which require suitably unique solutions. One size does not always fit all.

[Paladin]

42 minutes ago, Timbo said:

I was wondering Paladin, would the regulations created in the statutory instrument of the Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (England) Regulations 2020 under section 45R of the Public Health (Control of Disease) Act 1984 have not been amended? Would alteration to this statutory instrument be an indication of government thinking on the epidemic and management of population movement?

I wondered the same thing, but as the government has said it is the guidance that has changed, not the law, it doesn't appear so.

[unclemike]

9 minutes ago, JennyMorgan said:

One size does not always fit all.

agreed , but, there can be so many areas who all claim special problems it would be impossible to deal SAFELY with each one, this is why basically one size has to fit all,as soon as one area got special treatment everwhere else would be up in arms, why have they got something when we haven't

[MauriceMynah]

Isn't there a danger that if trips to second homes, (and similar) were to be specifically permitted, it could be read as as favouring people who own boats and second homes? and wouldn't that favouring, were highlighted if continuing the ban for hire craft and rented holiday accommodation.

I can see party politics being played on this one, perhaps by both sides , and I don't mean on this forum.

Rather as Chameleon has said. (while I was typing this)

[Paladin]

31 minutes ago, JennyMorgan said:

Whilst my common sense tells me that if cabin cruisers are used as day boats then there will, inevitably, be those that abuse the situation, which would surely not be preferable! 

But that's a different topic all together.

[Oddfellow]

3 minutes ago, MauriceMynah said:

Isn't there a danger that if trips to second homes, (and similar) were to be specifically permitted, it could be read as as favouring people who own boats and second homes? and wouldn't that favouring, were highlighted if continuing the ban for hire craft and rented holiday accommodation.

The new document does not mention returning home and says you can travel for any distance, which obviously also means for any length of time too since teleportation isn't possible. This alone leads rise to the problem you highlight. Technically, there is NOTHING stopping anybody getting in their car with a duvet and driving to anywhere (in England) and returning days later. I could, from Tomorrow, drive to Cheshire and collect my motorhome, take a walk around Buxton and return home with it. I won't but the wording of the document does not exclude it at all. 

[JawsOrca]

IMHO;

TFL and other large places with mass public transport certainly should be running as many carriages/trains as possible or limit the people who get on AND force every traveller to wear a mask and if they can't then it's not safe to be running public transport at the moment (Yes its then the government will need to provide masks too really.. lol), costs shouldn't come into it at the moment but longterm who knows, I'm glad I don't commute like that.

I kinda disagree a little with the RYA, although they are acting for the boating public which is good for them but I think they have been a bit premature with their demands.. Again it's still early days. I think priority should still be given towards the marina staff and safety within the boating environment things like: loo's, hoses, fences/railings, pontoons, mooring bollards etc etc etc are all potential issues which need consideration (at our residential berth, we have no loos, we have our own hose and tap points, no one has any reason to touch our utilities on a public mooring thats all very different and although maybe low risk is still a risk which needs to be understood.. 

I also disagree that the BA need to make a leap of faith here; they must seek guidance from science which clearly the central government have access to (and worldwide governments experiences through being ahead of us). The BA is a tiny organisation and without bringing too much politics in; haven't really shown much confidence in handling things in the past, I wouldn't trust any decision they make alone and as residents of broadland I think you need to be very careful what you wish for.. Again the broads is a rural aging community with a rural healthcare, a highly infectious decease spreading in that community would quickly overwhelm it. Currently it has my support to shield it as much as posible and I will not visit until I'm led to believe it's as safe as posible for all.

Andy @ Freedom et al, I guess they will be guidance, probably via the hotels industry on how to do things, it seems hotels are reopening in Europe so it's probably just time to see how the are running but you are certainly in a tough spot there and again you have my full sympathy :( 

We will all need to live with this but we need to learn first.. Personally I'm less hopeful now that it's under control and it feels like we have started to follow the selfish US attitude, pressurising our government into acting without giving them time to consult... 

[Paladin]

4 minutes ago, FreedomBoatingHols said:

The new document does not mention returning home and says you can travel for any distance, which obviously also means for any length of time too since teleportation isn't possible. This alone leads rise to the problem you highlight. Technically, there is NOTHING stopping anybody getting in their car with a duvet and driving to anywhere (in England) and returning days later. I could, from Tomorrow, drive to Cheshire and collect my motorhome, take a walk around Buxton and return home with it. I won't but the wording of the document does not exclude it at all. 

You could always try to push the boundaries, but I'll repeat, the law is that you don't leave the place in which you are living. Everything else is guidance on what might be considered to be a reasonable excuse. There is further government guidance here https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-outbreak-faqs-what-you-can-and-cant-do/coronavirus-outbreak-faqs-what-you-can-and-cant-do

Take a look at paragraphs 1.7 and 1.9. If you still think there is a carte blanche to swan around England as you wish, good luck with Plod.

[Meantime]

6 minutes ago, FreedomBoatingHols said:

The new document does not mention returning home and says you can travel for any distance, which obviously also means for any length of time too since teleportation isn't possible. This alone leads rise to the problem you highlight. Technically, there is NOTHING stopping anybody getting in their car with a duvet and driving to anywhere (in England) and returning days later. I could, from Tomorrow, drive to Cheshire and collect my motorhome, take a walk around Buxton and return home with it. I won't but the wording of the document does not exclude it at all. 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-outbreak-faqs-what-you-can-and-cant-do/coronavirus-outbreak-faqs-what-you-can-and-cant-do

Day trips to outdoor open space, in a private vehicle, are permitted. You should practise social distancing from other people outside your household.

Leaving your home - the place you live - to stay at another home for a holiday or other purpose is not allowed. This includes visiting second homes.

Day trips would indicate a 24hr time period. 

[MauriceMynah]

12 minutes ago, FreedomBoatingHols said:

The new document does not mention returning home and says you can travel for any distance, which obviously also means for any length of time too since teleportation isn't possible. This alone leads rise to the problem you highlight. Technically, there is NOTHING stopping anybody getting in their car with a duvet and driving to anywhere (in England) and returning days later. I could, from Tomorrow, drive to Cheshire and collect my motorhome, take a walk around Buxton and return home with it. I won't but the wording of the document does not exclude it at all. 

1.9 Are day trips and holidays ok? Can people stay in second homes?

Day trips to outdoor open space, in a private vehicle, are permitted. You should practise social distancing from other people outside your household.

Leaving your home - the place you live - to stay at another home for a holiday or other purpose is not allowed. This includes visiting second homes.

Premises such as hotels and bed and breakfasts will remain closed, except where providing accommodation for specific reasons set out in law, such as for critical workers where required for a reason relating to their work.

 

Sorry Andy, we will have to agree to differ on that.

[Chelsea14Ian]

The PM said yesterday ,not a direct quote, but in affect if you are using public  transport and social  distancing is not possible, its advisable you wear face covering,but you dont have to.

Think this is the problem, too much has been left vague and people  then draw there own conclusions. 

[Poppy]

7 minutes ago, EastCoastIPA said:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-outbreak-faqs-what-you-can-and-cant-do/coronavirus-outbreak-faqs-what-you-can-and-cant-do

Day trips to outdoor open space, in a private vehicle, are permitted. You should practise social distancing from other people outside your household.

Leaving your home - the place you live - to stay at another home for a holiday or other purpose is not allowed. This includes visiting second homes.

Day trips would indicate a 24hr time period. 

That to me would appear returing to the bed you got out of  that morning.

[Oddfellow]

9 minutes ago, EastCoastIPA said:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-outbreak-faqs-what-you-can-and-cant-do/coronavirus-outbreak-faqs-what-you-can-and-cant-do

Day trips to outdoor open space, in a private vehicle, are permitted. You should practise social distancing from other people outside your household.

Leaving your home - the place you live - to stay at another home for a holiday or other purpose is not allowed. This includes visiting second homes.

Day trips would indicate a 24hr time period. 

So, just more mixed messages. If breweries could reopen, this lot could't run a pissup in it. 

Here's the document I have been referring to: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/884171/FINAL_6.6637_CO_HMG_C19_Recovery_FINAL_110520_v2_WEB__1_.pdf

Nothing in this about overnight stays. Nothing at all. 

[Oddfellow]

5 minutes ago, MauriceMynah said:

Sorry Andy, we will have to agree to differ on that.

That's not in this document: 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/884171/FINAL_6.6637_CO_HMG_C19_Recovery_FINAL_110520_v2_WEB__1_.pdf

[Meantime]

4 minutes ago, FreedomBoatingHols said:

So, just more mixed messages. If breweries could reopen, this lot could't run a pissup in it. 

Here's the document I have been referring to: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/884171/FINAL_6.6637_CO_HMG_C19_Recovery_FINAL_110520_v2_WEB__1_.pdf

Nothing in this about overnight stays. Nothing at all. 

That document is just the plan.

I would suggest the law is the following document

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/350/made

With guidance best obtained here Corona virus hub

https://www.gov.uk/coronavirus

With succinct guidance found here, in particular the easing mentioned in the plan

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-outbreak-faqs-what-you-can-and-cant-do/coronavirus-outbreak-faqs-what-you-can-and-cant-do

 

 

[Poppy]

4 minutes ago, FreedomBoatingHols said:

That's not in this document: 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/884171/FINAL_6.6637_CO_HMG_C19_Recovery_FINAL_110520_v2_WEB__1_.pdf

No, it's in this one !  FAQs - What you CAN and CAN'T do .

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-outbreak-faqs-what-you-can-and-cant-do/coronavirus-outbreak-faqs-what-you-can-and-cant-do

[JawsOrca]

3 minutes ago, FreedomBoatingHols said:

That's not in this document: 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/884171/FINAL_6.6637_CO_HMG_C19_Recovery_FINAL_110520_v2_WEB__1_.pdf

Thing is though Andy that seems to mention nothing at all about leaving your home other than employment really.. I agree it's all vauge and leading to discussions like this all over the country.. 

Basically though the government recommend we all stay home.. PERIOD! It's safe at home obviously.. But we can't so we need to go to work if it's safe, go out to get supplies and to not get other sickness we ideally should go and exercise

but leaving home risks us catching the pesky virus so they don't really want to tell us to do that so they are being vague without being as blunt as saying if you go outside you have a higher risk than normal of dying (or overwhelming the NHS)..

Catch 22 really...

[Oddfellow]

10 minutes ago, JawsOrca said:

Thing is though Andy that seems to mention nothing at all about leaving your home other than employment really.. I agree it's all vauge and leading to discussions like this all over the country.. 

Basically though the government recommend we all stay home.. PERIOD! It's safe at home obviously.. But we can't so we need to go to work if it's safe, go out to get supplies and to not get other sickness we ideally should go and exercise

but leaving home risks us catching the pesky virus so they don't really want to tell us to do that so they are being vague without being as blunt as saying if you go outside you have a higher risk than normal of dying (or overwhelming the NHS)..

Catch 22 really...

I don't think is't quite catch 22. Being sceptical, I would argue that we (the public) is being set up as a scapegoat for when this goes wrong again. It's not as though they don't have form for this. 

The sporadic and disjointed dissemination of information is either deliberate to create a scenario perhaps as I describe above or a show of utter incompetence. I believe both of these options to be entirely possible and plausible. 

The result is that it has the whole country waiting for the next episode of this frighteningly sick soap opera. The daily press conferences should have a rotating aerial image of Parliment square, be accompanied by a dramatic drum riff and with the word, "Westminsters" fading in.  

I am sick of this situation. Happy to stay at home but the handling of this crisis on a purely human level is criminal. 

[Meantime]

Amongst all this talk of what we can and cannot do, what we should or shouldn't do, are allowed or not allowed to do the ONS has today released it's latest figures.

For the six week period week ending 27th Mar to 1st May the five year average number of deaths in England and Wales is 61,851. For this year for the same period it is 108,345 an increase over the last five year average of 46,494. The ONS figures are generally the most accurate, but given the time it takes to collate them, always about 10 days behind hence that figure only includes up to 1st May.

Puts our discussions into perspective!

[Chelsea14Ian]

I think in the words of yes Minister. This is the guideline of the sub sub committee that reports back to the sub committee. That then have report back in writing  to the sub sub committee .Then they will respond back,to the sub committee, then only then will they recommend to Ministers what tea to have in the canteen.

[ZimbiIV]

Reading this topic, I am so glad Boris has explained things so clearly and concisly or we would not know what to do.

Next time he is going to explain why water is wet so we can all stay dry!

paul

[marshman]

To put things into perspective, you should be putting that figure against the total population of England and Wales and then applying a regional variation to get a more realistic figure - this why country to country comparisons are inappropriate as reporters are told time and time again, but thats irrelevant if you want to sell newspapers!

 

[Oddfellow]

17 minutes ago, marshman said:

To put things into perspective, you should be putting that figure against the total population of England and Wales and then applying a regional variation to get a more realistic figure - this why country to country comparisons are inappropriate as reporters are told time and time again, but thats irrelevant if you want to sell newspapers!

 

It is most definitely inappropriate if you are in charge of a county that has the worst death toll in Europe and the second worst in the world but you would prefer people to think of it as an "apparent success".....