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I'm An Electrical Idiot


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Hi All, hope you're managing to stay safe and well - Cesar has a fairly nasty bought of the virus but all good now, we've actually made the move back to Norfolk too :) Now, there are many things I'm an idiot over and batteries/electrics are definitely one of them - am looking up to the knowledge of the forum to teach me how dumb I really am - need to ask some basic questions that will really help me. Went to check on Zephyr yesterday (having a few power issues) - The starter battery isn't holding any charge and was really wet (no leak in the boat) and was basically shot - so I duly replaced it (Halfords being the only place open) - I've attached a picture of how the battery was and how it is now. 

We have credit in the meter in the Wetshed - but it wasn't on/ charging. Could someone please do me a HUGE favour and idiot proof me on the shore power procedure and the switched that I've put on here - marking A and B - as to what should be where when we are on shore power and also if we are on shore power to charge the batteries - which ever way I put it yesterday the Centaur battery charger would not show any power going through. Hope to see everyone out and about soooon.

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When you are not on board all those isolators should be off (direction A, you'll feel them come out slightly when off), top one should only be needed if engine battery is flat as it connects the banks together to give a jump start off domestics and switch off again once started, charging depends on how the charger is wired, does it have one or two outputs, if one it's probably only connected to the domestic batteries not the starter.

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2 hours ago, Smoggy said:

When you are not on board all those isolators should be off (direction A, you'll feel them come out slightly when off), top one should only be needed if engine battery is flat as it connects the banks together to give a jump start off domestics and switch off again once started, charging depends on how the charger is wired, does it have one or two outputs, if one it's probably only connected to the domestic batteries not the starter.

 

3 hours ago, oldgregg said:

My initial thoughts are that it's a Leisure battery, which is not designed for engine starting.

that's all that Halfords had at the time :( here's hoping 

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2 hours ago, Smoggy said:

When you are not on board all those isolators should be off (direction A, you'll feel them come out slightly when off), top one should only be needed if engine battery is flat as it connects the banks together to give a jump start off domestics and switch off again once started, charging depends on how the charger is wired, does it have one or two outputs, if one it's probably only connected to the domestic batteries not the starter.

thank you - think i've been frying them all :default_icon_eek:

 

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Those Centaur chargers normally have either two or three completely isolated charging outputs. The 12/20 bit means it charges at 12volt @ up to 20 amps per circuit. If the charger has failed then damage could have been done to all the battery's otherwise chances are that some will still be ok. 

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1 minute ago, JanetAnne said:

Those Centaur chargers normally have either two or three completely isolated charging outputs. The 12/20 bit means it charges at 12volt @ up to 20 amps per circuit. If the charger has failed then damage could have been done to all the battery's otherwise chances are that some will still be ok. 

luckily Saviour of all Dave is going to check in on her this week :) :100_pray:

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1 hour ago, Cockatoo said:

The Centaur chargers also need to be set for the type of battery they are charging as well.

 

 

It is worth re-iterating what Cockatoo has said. Your old leisure batteries and the new Halfords one all appear to be maintenance free which means you cannot check or more importantly cannot top up the acid in the battery. This type of battery do not like fast charging which leads to boiling of the acid and resultant loss of acid and premature death of the battery. All modern day chargers have settings for different types of battery and will charge the batteries accordingly to minimise acid loss. It will be worth checking your charger is set for maintenance free or sealed type batteries before you fry your new Halfords one.

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Those Numax's are probably bought from TAYNA https://www.tayna.co.uk/leisure-batteries/

I've used them several times their delivery is very prompt and Cheap. I will be continuing to use them.

As an aside I took two of those batteries apart at the weekend, They were in use for many years. I can confirm they are sealed maintenance free with just one or two tiny pressure relief holes (which are taped over during delivery). I had to cut off the filling hole cover as it's glued on, so that I could drain them. Each of the cells had 19 plates. They have been cleaned of acid (in a bucket of bicarboate of soda and water) and a cloth mesh wrapped round each plate removed.

They are now drying for the week to be melted into my keel.. Water and liquid lead are an explosive mix...

 

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Hi First of all you need to clean all the terminals and leads then lightly grease with the two domestic battery are wired up wrong you should take the pos feed fro one battery then the neg feed from the other battery this works then as a pair rather then the first battery doing all the work. John

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6 minutes ago, annv said:

Hi First of all you need to clean all the terminals and leads then lightly grease with the two domestic battery are wired up wrong you should take the pos feed fro one battery then the neg feed from the other battery this works then as a pair rather then the first battery doing all the work. John

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Thank you so so much

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Hi Your welcome i would be inclined to check out the orientation of the switches with a meter or test bulb to make sure which way they are wired then mark them as such, they also probably need cleaning and greasing as well DO NOT use ordinary grease only petroleum jelly or/Vaseline, you cant charge battery's properly if terminals are high resistance. John

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23 minutes ago, annv said:

Hi First of all you need to clean all the terminals and leads then lightly grease with the two domestic battery are wired up wrong you should take the pos feed fro one battery then the neg feed from the other battery this works then as a pair rather then the first battery doing all the work

Hardly 'wrong' the difference will be negligible.

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Heck, where to start. 

1) Do not use a leisure battery to start an engine. It will kill the battery as it is not designed for heavy duty loads. 

2) It would be unusual for a leisure battery to be orientated in that way. Leisure and Marine batteries would usually be orientated as per the NuMax ones in your photos. That is to say that the positive post will be at the bottom edge of picture on the left as your shot shows it. I cannot see the designation on the posts from your photo, but it would be rare to see a leisure battery the wrong-way-round, so to speak. They are usually the opposite to a car / starter battery. 

 

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17 hours ago, FreedomBoatingHols said:

Heck, where to start. 

1) Do not use a leisure battery to start an engine. It will kill the battery as it is not designed for heavy duty loads. 

 

 

I'll gently add there are batteries that can do both, Some leisure batteries including some Numax's have a CCA (cold cranking amps) which is way above what is needed for starting, but they have a deeper discharge ability like a leisure battery.

You do need to look for them though..

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52 minutes ago, TheQ said:

I'll gently add there are batteries that can do both, Some leisure batteries including some Numax's have a CCA (cold cranking amps) which is way above what is needed for starting, but they have a deeper discharge ability like a leisure battery.

You do need to look for them though..

Indeed there are. We have one on Poppy. It's only used for engine start (9hp VP diesel auxillary) and it's at least eight years old - possibly older.

 

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1 hour ago, TheQ said:

I'll gently add there are batteries that can do both, Some leisure batteries including some Numax's have a CCA (cold cranking amps) which is way above what is needed for starting, but they have a deeper discharge ability like a leisure battery.

You do need to look for them though..

These are normally called Marine Batteries and have a CCA rating.

The one in the photo does not; In fact, it specifically states that it is "Optimised for repeated charging and discharging". 
 

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1 hour ago, annv said:

Why buy a leisure battery to start a engine when a starter battery is cheaper and lasts longer?, the bigger  size doesn't mean its better, horses for coarses springs to mind. John

A starter battery will not necessarily last longer..

The bigger size.. less charge / discharge cycles taken out of the Battery, Then It will last longer...

If you have to repeatedly for some reason start the engine, or you leave something discharging the battery when the engine is not running,  a dual purpose battery can take a deeper level of discharge.

BUT.. a dual purpose bigger battery is generally more expensive.

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