Idiot Hirers - Edp Story

[Oddfellow]

41 minutes ago, marshman said:

Andy - whilst I have many times in the past admired your contribution to the Forum and indeed the help you have given people, you do depress me a bit these days! You seem to look for the very worst in almost every situation and I cannot help feel that the this whole pandemic issue has got to you, perhaps more than others and unquestionably with some justification. This pandemic was none of our doing but even you must see we have to look forward and not try and see negatives constantly? I don't actually believe we won't pull through this, as we have to, -  some like yourselves will no doubt have more difficulty than others but surely there must be a plus side and some reasons for being optimistic?

You are after all still a  yard proprietor and surely almost everything Maurice has said is right? I really find it hard to believe that you have not come across kids or adults, like this - or more to the point, worse? I suspect if this video had not emerged, and the boat returned in the normal course of events, no one would have been any the wiser - you listed all the faults and dangers, but in fact the net result was nothing happened that had an adverse impact on the boat as far as I am aware? Or am I wrong? 

Yeah. I am depressed. Incredibly so. Borderline medication I would say. 

It should be noted too that  I have always erred on the side of caution with hiring and I have always requested that people tell us if they see our boats being used inappropriately and people do. I have had a number of people blue-booked and more. 

As a operator who's neck would be on the line should something like this happen and go wrong, I could be on the sticky end of a Corporate Manslaughter charge and even if I am not, attending any kind of hearing/interview would not be something I would want to have to do to show that we did everything properly and by the book. It would ruin our lives if somebody were to die through stupidity like this. Now, I know that is an extreme situation, but it's far from impossible. Accidents happen all the time whether though misadventure, misjudgement or bad luck. There's a Channel 4 Air Ambulance programme that features one of our customers who, having jumped off a boat whilst mooring. landed badly and did terrible damage to their leg, for instance. They got a ride in a helichopper and took many weeks before they could walk again. 

We live in a litigious society where Health and Safety is as much about covering your backside and passing the buck (via contracts, guidance and signatures) as it is about preventing accidents in the first place. We have to be cautious with every hiring decision and mitigate the risks as much as possible and get a signature that says that we have done so to the customer's satisfaction. But it doesn't stop silliness because nobody reads ANY contract, it just attempts to pass the buck. As proof of my point, when was the last time you bought something online and just ticked the T&C box without actually reading a word of if? I did it yesterday having spent a not-insignificant amount of money. We are probably all guilty of this to some extent. 

The more people that are brought to book for breaking the rules on the Broads, the less likely breaking the rules will flourish. And, even if I am wrong, the chances of someone breaking them again after a hefty fine ought to be reduced. 

I have had people report mis-use of my boats on a number of occasions and the first thing I do is call them or the BA rangers or, if out of hours and it's serious enough, Broads Beat. Had the video not emerged, you are probably right we might all be none-the-wiser. But that, like a lot of comment, some of mine included, is supposition. The video did emerge and we can hypothesise as to the potential outcomes. Beer-soaked cushions would be likely be spotted, especially in these times of deep cleaning. But we don't know what happened when the boat returned to the yard; I can't even identify the boat, but you can be sure the BA can because John Packman has sent an email to all operators this afternoon discussing this very video, the behaviour and the potential negative effects of it upon Broads tourism as it does the rounds. Be under no illusion that incidents like this can cause very real problems; remember the stags urinating off the boat story that hit the nationals a couple of years ago? Not good publicity for a tourism industry that's on its knees right now. 

 

[CambridgeCabby]

Irrespective of ones opinions concerning others posts I find it totally wrong to bring ones opinions of another’s state of mind into the public realm and contrary to the spirit of the friendly NBN , it is not something IMHO that shows the forum in a good light .

[JennyMorgan]

In my experience real friends are concerned and honest with each other.

[JennyMorgan]

1 hour ago, FreedomBoatingHols said:

John Packman has sent an email to all operators this afternoon discussing this very video, the behaviour and the potential negative effects of it upon Broads tourism . . . . . . . . 

I have long argued that the image of the Broads as is often displayed on U-Tube of loutish behavior is incredibly damaging. Were I still involved in the industry then I would be very careful when it comes to accepting stag or  single sex parties. 

[TheQ]

It's probably not legal now to ban single sex parties,  especially if some or all of the group were lbgtq+ or any other letters of the alphabet.. 

[grendel]

not all single sex parties are as bad as that, you just have to look at our lads week for proof of that, 4 boats 24 lads, and the worst we got up to was 3 abreast up the river bure for a photo opportunity, and there was still room for the boats coming the other way.

[BroadAmbition]

Grendel - Agreed.  We have been doing 'Our' Lads week for years now and never once got any sort of finger wagging for misdemeanours or maybe we just never got caught? 

A few years ago we did a 4 x abreast photo call across Breydon. In fact we probably do this every year. H.W's received a complaint that we were 'Racing' boats across Breydon.      H.W's acknowledged the complaint, saw our photo's and filed the complaint in the bin.  We will no doubt 'Have a race' 4 x abreast across Breydon whilst taking photo's again come this October too! 

Pretty pointless actually as even towing a dinghy 'B.A' would always 'Win' but the photo's get shared by all

I once tried to 'Race' 'B.A' against Ranger over Breydon - I lost but only just! 

Griff

[Vaughan]

Oh dear.  I feel a bit guilty about this as it seems to be me who first put his foot in this particular ant - heap and stirred it up!

I agree with everything Andy says as I have been through all these experiences myself - including the stress medication.  It is a way of life which can sometimes seem like a thankless task, especially as a small business will naturally take a great deal more personal pride in its boats and its customer service than the large ones (although they would wish to) ever can.  I don't know anyone who took more pride than my father, and it showed!  But then his standards were so high that he never made a profit and decided to sell and retire at an early age.

Let's look back to the OP's original post on this thread.  It was only one line :

I'd have been straight on the phone to the yard.

It is this immediate assumption that the boatyard should do something, that I was reacting to, since the fact still remains, like it or not, that a yard cannot - ever - be held to account for the anti-social behaviour of holidaymakers just because they have hired one of their boats.  I was speaking, as I always do, on the side of the boatyards, whose position is so often mis-understood but I had not realised that my support would get such a strong reaction, indeed contradiction, from Andy or I honestly would not have started this.

This subject has been raised many times before on the forum - sometimes it seems to happen every time someone pukes outside a pub - and it always seems to cause strong feelings that get no-one any satisfaction. To those of a neighbour-hood watch disposition who wish to do their duty as they see it, could I just suggest three things :

1/. The Broads depends, now as always, on tourists having fun on holiday.  Without them, your private river toll would be eye-watering.

2/. There has always been an element of rowdyism, ever since the days of the Midland and Gt. Northern railway.  It comes with the territory.  Doesn't anyone remember Yarmouth Yacht Station in the 60s?

3/. Please understand who is responsible for what.  If you want to complain of uncivil behaviour then complain to the authorities, who are there to police it.

[trambo]

55 minutes ago, Vaughan said:

 

This subject has been raised many times before on the forum - sometimes it seems to happen every time someone pukes outside a pub - and it always seems to cause strong feelings that get no-one any satisfaction. To those of a neighbour-hood watch disposition who wish to do their duty as they see it, could I just suggest three things :

1/. The Broads depends, now as always, on tourists having fun on holiday.  Without them, your private river toll would be eye-watering.

2/. There has always been an element of rowdyism, ever since the days of the Midland and Gt. Northern railway.  It comes with the territory.  Doesn't anyone remember Yarmouth Yacht Station in the 60s?

3/. Please understand who is responsible for what.  If you want to complain of uncivil behaviour then complain to the authorities, who are there to police it.

1/. Depends on your definition of fun and yes your river toll will be eye watering when all the decent tourists decide they have had enough. 

2/. Probably why so many people still avoid Gt. Yarmouth like the plague! (Or to be more topical, virus)

3/. Totally agree

Fred

 

[RumPunch]

1 hour ago, Vaughan said:

 

Let's look back to the OP's original post on this thread.  It was only one line :

I'd have been straight on the phone to the yard.

 

… and as I later clarified, this is more out of concern of possible damage to their property

[JennyMorgan]

During my days in marketing it was always claimed that for every one upset customer you would subsequently lose twelve potential customers. 

I do browse other boating related forums and groups, so often do I read the comment that folk won't come to the Broads citing the yob aspect as their reason for not coming here.

Customer selection is a thorny topic but when a bunch of lads turn up to pick up their boat, loaded down with a dustbin filled with ice  and cool boxes crammed with Budd or whatever then the clues are pretty darned obvious!

As for bookings, computers are wonderous things.

As I see it this is one that is long over due for the industry to sort out, for itself, not the Broads Authority.

[Oddfellow]

2 minutes ago, JennyMorgan said:

During my days in marketing it was always claimed that for every one upset customer you would subsequently lose twelve potential customers. 

I do browse other boating related forums and groups, so often do I read the comment that folk won't come to the Broads citing the yob aspect as their reason for not coming here.

Customer selection is a thorny topic but when a bunch of lads turn up to pick up their boat, loaded down with a dustbin filled with ice  and cool boxes crammed with Budd or whatever then the clues are pretty darned obvious!

As for bookings, computers are wonderous things.

As I see it this is one is long over due for the industry to sort out, not the Broads Authority

I tend to agree, but money talks. Right now, I imagine that for many, money has a festival-grade PA system. Pleased I am not offering day hire, tbh.

 

[JennyMorgan]

10 minutes ago, FreedomBoatingHols said:

I tend to agree, but money talks.

Long term or short term? Regretfully short term rather than building for the future.

I would certainly hate to see the Broads peopled by any one particular social group. The Broads should be for all but at the moment far too many folk appear to be distancing themselves because of the hullabaloo aspect. 

[Oddfellow]

1 minute ago, JennyMorgan said:

Long term or short term? Regretfully short term rather than building for the future.

I would certainly hate to see the Broads peopled by any one particular social group. The Broads should be for all but at the moment far too many folk appear to be distancing themselves from the hullabaloo aspect. 

The problem right now is that without short-term, long-term will struggle to exist. Don't get me wrong, I am not condoning this, just giving my opinion. 

 

[JennyMorgan]

Just now, FreedomBoatingHols said:

The problem right now is that without short-term, long-term will struggle to exist. 

I have to agree but perhaps the industry has for far to long targeted holiday makers rather than Broads visitors.  

[stumpy]

5 hours ago, grendel said:

not all single sex parties are as bad as that, you just have to look at our lads week for proof of that, 4 boats 24 lads, and the worst we got up to was 3 abreast up the river bure for a photo opportunity, and there was still room for the boats coming the other way.

It always tickled us on our lads weeks (average age low 70s, two RC priests, one Lt.Cmdr. ret'd,  one tug master foreign going) when Herbie's apologetically took our brown envelope with £300 in it to put in a drawer to give back at the end of the week.

[Oddfellow]

58 minutes ago, JennyMorgan said:

I have to agree but perhaps the industry has for far to long targeted holiday makers rather than Broads visitors.  

Sadly, you can't distinguish these groups, legally, ethically, morally. 

They are all from the same melting pot. I was born and raised in London. My family started hiring when I was about 6 months old and continued annually (mostly) until I was about 14/15. At what point did we transmute from Holidaymakers to Broads Visitors? Did this actually occur and what is the difference anyway?

I am now a Broads resident and have been for almost 20 years having had my own vessel(s) on the rivers for all of this time. What does that make me and does it matter?

We regularly talk to people booking their first family boating holidays who tell us that the might have come with the lads when then they were 20 or came with their mums and dads 15 years ago. The point being that those that enjoyed the experience earlier on in life often become customers much later in life when they have their own families, etc. And, not to put too fine a point on it, few people would be Broads Visitors (which I assume from the progression of Peter's comment are those that we should aspire to attract) without having been lowly holidaymakers in the past. 

 

[TheQ]

56 minutes ago, FreedomBoatingHols said:

 

I am now a Broads resident and have been for almost 20 years having had my own vessel(s) on the rivers for all of this time. What does that make me and does it matter?

. 

 

Only bin twenty yare? you'll  wun't be gettin your Norf'k passport yet, I spent 26 yare livin hair and many months of visit between  living hare, no sign of me paasport Yet

[Poppy]

2 minutes ago, TheQ said:

Only bin twenty year? you'll  wun't be getting your Norf'k passport yet, I've spent 26 years living here and many months of visits between  living here, no sign of me paasport Yet

32 years. Hint got moin yet neither !

[trambo]

1 hour ago, FreedomBoatingHols said:

Sadly, you can't distinguish these groups, legally, ethically, morally. 
 

 

Agree but you can market the product so that it attracts a holidaymaker who wants what the Broads offer. A lot of the problem is many people end up on the Broads who are bored by it all, are unable to slow down and go home disappointed.

I know this is very simplistic but it all seamed to go  wrong from when Hoseason's had it's Sun newspaper (sic) promotion.

Fred

[CambridgeCabby]

Holiday makers or visitors to The Broads there are good and bad groups in both camps , there is no way for a hire yard to determine which one they’re hiring to .

 The worst behaviour I have seen on the Broads was a family group of mum, dad and two early teen (I think) children and we have often encountered stag and hen groups who respected the area and their boating neighbours fully .

[Oddfellow]

A Broads Visitor is a Holiday Maker and a Holiday Maker is a Broads Visitor; there is no distinction except in individual perception. 

What makes a holiday maker and what makes a visitor and why are they different? 

[Poppy]

10 minutes ago, FreedomBoatingHols said:

A Broads Visitor is a Holiday Maker and a Holiday Maker is a Broads Visitor; there is no distinction except in individual perception. 

What makes a holiday maker and what makes a visitor and why are they different? 

I live in Norfolk, just outside The Broads Executive area. When I go to my boat, or to another part of the Broads for any reason are you saying that I am ' on holiday' ?

[Oddfellow]

9 minutes ago, Poppy said:

I live in Norfolk, just outside The Broads Executive area. When I go to my boat, or to another part of the Broads for any reason are you saying that I am ' on holiday' ?

type "Define Holiday" into google and you get this:

Quote

an extended period of leisure and recreation, especially one spent away from home or in travelling.

So, yeah, I guess you are. You are also a Broads Visitor. The two are not mutually exclusive. 

[Smoggy]

37 minutes ago, FreedomBoatingHols said:

What makes a holiday maker and what makes a visitor and why are they different? 

I was wondering that, certainly amongst hirers, different maybe for private boat owners depending where you live.