Email/report From John Packman

[Vaughan]

Just now, Hylander said:

Lets look on the brightside....

"Si vis pacem, para bellum".

[YnysMon]

7 minutes ago, ChrisB said:

My biggest fear for the tourist sector and other parts of the economy is next year. I have been told by a senior person in tourism that the surge in bookings is being fuelled by credit cards and that many of those booking have not yet returned to work and are not sure of their longer term job prospects.

I'm sure that's true to some extent, but this year I've chosen to pay for some holidays by credit card when normally I wouldn't have bothered. Mainly due to thinking I'm more covered than if I payed by my debit card. Also, the new rules banning companies from levying additional charges for credit cards has changed my behaviour and made me more inclined to use my John Lewis card for big purchases so that I can get John Lewis vouchers as a reward. Of course, that only works to your advantage if you pay off at the end of the month!

[ChrisB]

9 minutes ago, YnysMon said:

I'm sure that's true to some extent, but this year I've chosen to pay for some holidays by credit card when normally I wouldn't have bothered. Mainly due to thinking I'm more covered than if I payed by my debit card. Also, the new rules banning companies from levying additional charges for credit cards has changed my behaviour and made me more inclined to use my John Lewis card for big purchases so that I can get John Lewis vouchers as a reward. Of course, that only works to your advantage if you pay off at the end of the month!

Precisely. I buy everything on Mastercard and Amex, I then only have two accounts to settle each month. But we who are in the fortunate position to clear our outstanding balances on the due date are a very, very small minority. 

Easy credit has changed society, no longer do people save and wait. The Banks use "get it now"  as a tool in their armoury, they want you in debt, servicing it at 18+% or more. And things like continental holidays, eating out, new clothes every month have become a God given right, not something to aspire to and save for.

[Hylander]

24 minutes ago, Vaughan said:

"If V is peace, p Ara warfare u m" .

Come on - you have me beat,  that is the translation I am getting.

[Hylander]

As far as bookings are concerned , we have booked with Hoseasons for a boat and I have been asked to wait 5 days for the documentation as they are up to their eyes in bookings at the moment.

[Vaughan]

11 minutes ago, Hylander said:

Come on - you have me beat,  that is the translation I am getting.

If you want peace, prepare for war.

It is attributed to Plato as well as assorted Roman Generals and was the accepted motto of those of us who served in the Forces during the Cold War.

Still appropriate in this case, I thought.

[Tempest]

I am a live and let live kinda guy and like to see stag and hen do`s on the broads and the many pirate flags flying in the wind as excited families head up or down river. (Usually on Richardsons Challenger for some reason!!)

I enjoy the peace and tranquillity which is always in abundance on the broads, the towns, villages and local pubs

I enjoy the dogs walks, the sound of sails in the wind as the yachts glide by and the sight of a wherry in full sail or being pushed through Ludham Bridge by a pilot

I love the sight of the young, the athletic, the old and those with disabilities enjoying various elements on the rivers

At times people do things which makes me shake my head, speak to them about it or report them to the authorities, but these a few and far between as the vast majority of people enjoy the area with the greatest respect given to others and the surroundings 

So a little perspective needs to be had.

 

[JennyMorgan]

3 hours ago, FreedomBoatingHols said:

I have been told that hospitals are gearing up for an early Autumn second wave. 

My NHS hero daughter tells me that the computer models predict September onwards.

[johnm]

16 minutes ago, JennyMorgan said:

My NHS hero daughter tells me that the computer models predict September onwards.

The models predict all sorts but the second wave is the consistent spectre in every piece of operational planning that we are doing, even that aimed at re-opening services recently limited by the need to respond to the first wave!

[Smoggy]

Was there ever any doubt about a second wave? The rate has dropped due to a lockdown, the virus is still out there, how can a release of lockdown NOT increase numbers again until either we have all had it or their is a vacine taken up by most of the population.

Surely the question is how big a second wave and have people learnt anything from the first wave (probably not in many cases), wasn't the plan always just to keep numbers low enough so the NHS could cope? To stay locked down till a vacine comes along in large enough numbers to do the job would leave us all broke and starving.

[Vaughan]

On 02/07/2020 at 09:10, ranworthbreeze said:

There is an interdependent relationship between the Broads Authority and the hire boat companies. The Authority’s ability to maintain one of Britain’s most precious landscapes to be enjoyed by millions of people depends on a thriving hire boat industry, and many of the wonders of our environment can only be seen from the water. 

During our natural pre-occupation with the virus there are still other matters, (such as Brexit ) waiting "in the wings".

As one of the "usual suspects" where national park status is concerned, I take especial note, and encouragement, from what Dr Packman states in that opening paragraph.

This is what my father's generation had been saying about the Broads ever since the War and I have always believed it myself.  It makes the Broads unique and it also makes navigation indivisible from any other NP priorities.

I am very glad to see him state this and I will not forget, in future, that he did so!

 

[Smoggy]

I'm sure there's a few that will have saved that message and have that paragraph already highlighted, maybe it's took a major revenue hit for to realise this.

[Paladin]

On 02/07/2020 at 08:10, ranworthbreeze said:

There is an interdependent relationship between the Broads Authority and the hire boat companies. The Authority’s ability to maintain one of Britain’s most precious landscapes to be enjoyed by millions of people depends on a thriving hire boat industry, and many of the wonders of our environment can only be seen from the water. 

A healthy hire boat industry is essential for the local economy to survive, but that does not come within the remit of the Broads Authority in either of the Broads Acts. The promotion of tourism has its own organisations to perform that function.

Perhaps the Authority should remember it gets double the income from private owners that it gets from the hire companies. It's never wise to bite the hand that feeds.

[Oddfellow]

32 minutes ago, Paladin said:

A healthy hire boat industry is essential for the local economy to survive, but that does not come within the remit of the Broads Authority in either of the Broads Acts. The promotion of tourism has its own organisations to perform that function.

Perhaps the Authority should remember it gets double the income from private owners that it gets from the hire companies. It's never wise to bite the hand that feeds.

Perhaps Paladin also needs to appreciate that it's not the private boats that are used six or seven times a year (or even 15) that make the local economy tick. It's the hire boat industry where boats are crammed with holidaymakers looking to get away from it all week in, week out. 

Not sure how the BA is biting any hands. 

[MauriceMynah]

It would make for an interesting statistic. The number of people on hire craft per year against the number of people on private boats per year. It wouldn't surprise me if the numbers are close.

[JennyMorgan]

I've made this point countless times, the Broads is the Broads and the Broads themselves are Broads, they are NOT lakes as stated by the BA, nor as I tirelessly remind Dr Packman et al , is the area a national park. Yes, I know, we are all well aware of all that so why do I repeat it, apart from the fact that I can?

28 minutes ago, Paladin said:

A healthy hire boat industry is essential for the local economy to survive, but that does not come within the remit of the Broads Authority in either of the Broads Acts. The promotion of tourism has its own organisations to perform that function.

That is entirely true, as we expect of Paladin's posts. So why is JP muscling in on act?  Is it finally a realization that the holiday industry not only provides income but also sets much of the character and culture of the Broads. Bare in mind that many private boatowners first came to the Broads as holiday makers.  No question that he is attempting to extend his control/influence, even into taking the lead. Will that, could that be good for the Broads? 

JP is perfectly entitled to state his opinion. However, I hesitate to applaud any undue influence from above. Why should I think that way? Trust, plain and simple. I fear ulterior motives.

[JennyMorgan]

41 minutes ago, FreedomBoatingHols said:

Not sure how the BA is biting any hands. 

First of all, forget the local economy for a moment or two, as important as it is. The Authority derives much of its income from both private and hire boats. The inequitable treatment of the two sectors is unquestionably devisive, just as is much of BA agenda. Divide and conquer? The hand that is the private sector has every right to question the largess that has been presented to the hire industry. Don't let us forget that the hire industry depends on the Broads being maintained just as does the private sector. 

[Paladin]

1 hour ago, FreedomBoatingHols said:

Perhaps Paladin also needs to appreciate that it's not the private boats that are used six or seven times a year (or even 15) that make the local economy tick. It's the hire boat industry where boats are crammed with holidaymakers looking to get away from it all week in, week out. 

Not sure how the BA is biting any hands. 

I said as much in the opening of my post - "A healthy hire boat industry is essential for the local economy to survive..." I'm sorry if I did not make myself clear.

But the vast majority of the businesses (excluding those related to boating) are not within the BA's executive area and rely on the local population for their custom and income, particularly outside the six week 'season'.

When I look at the BA's obsequious fawning over the hire industry and compare that to their dismissive and arrogant attitude towards private owners (who provide 2/3rds of their tolls income), I'm rather surprised that anyone can't see that hand being bitten.

[JennyMorgan]

38 minutes ago, Paladin said:

When I look at the BA's obsequious fawning over the hire industry . . . . . . . 

If JP is to progress his national park vanity obsession then he needs the hireboat industry onside, even if he has to buy his way in in order to gain any form of control or influence. The industry should wake up and smell the coffee in regard to the NP issues.

[Oddfellow]

42 minutes ago, Paladin said:

obsequious fawning

wow, that's heavy. 

The hire industry keeps private tolls low. You might be right about the proportion of income of private vs hire tolls, but this is ignoring the fact that the loss of income from a 44ft hire boat would take perhaps three, maybe four average-sized private cruisers to replace.  Is it realistic to think that this likely or should the BA expect to recover the loss of this income by increasing tolls again in the following years? Of course, we are talking about just one boat (which has gone from the river system and won't attract a toll this year or any other). 

This is a realistic position from JP. The authority absolutely needs the money from the hire industry and if it doesn't get it, it will need it from the private boaters or the navigation will not be maintained to the standards that it is currently (whether you think this is high or not is immaterial, if would be unlikely to improve.

The comments regarding many businesses being outside the BA executive area is baffling really. The point being that people come to Norfolk as a holiday destination as it offers a multitude of different holiday habitats from rivers to quiet coast, traditional seaside to quaint villages, historic cities to fabulous wildlife reserves. If they aren't on a boat but in a cottage or holiday park and drive around, they have the opportunity to visit all these places and bring in vital revenue. 

Where's the "dismissive, arrogant attitude to private owners"?  

2 hours ago, MauriceMynah said:

It would make for an interesting statistic. The number of people on hire craft per year against the number of people on private boats per year. It wouldn't surprise me if the numbers are close.

It would surprise me. Hire boats, especially in high season when the schools are off, are often at close to maximum capacity. Let's just say that there's an average of 5 people per boat and use my fleet as a metric. Over six weeks, one boat might carry 30 people total. 10 boats times 5 people average is 50 people a week, every week. Over the 6 weeks summer holidays, that's 300 people on our boats.

Many private boats are used by couples or maybe friends; perhaps you could suggest the average is 4 people per boat and they won't be out continuously over the six weeks summer holidays (many not at all as they actively avoid the period). Let's be generous and say that a private boat might go out for two of the six weeks. That's 8 people over the same period per boat. 

If you look at non-summer holiday time, you still have to look at the factoring. There may be more private boats out than hire, but realistically, we all know that the true numbers are pretty low. Most private boats are used at weekends  because most people work during the week. You would need every private boat to be heavily used in order to bring in a similar number of people that a hire boat brings in and, don't forget, weekly, a hire boat is also bringing in different people who wish to sample different things whereas many owners will drop into their favourite pub or Bramerton Common and just sit there. 

 

[RumPunch]

21 hours ago, Vaughan said:

If you want peace, prepare for war.

It is attributed to Plato as well as assorted Roman Generals and was the accepted motto of those of us who served in the Forces during the Cold War.

Still appropriate in this case, I thought.

RAF Bruggen

 

[Poppy]

26 minutes ago, FreedomBoatingHols said:

 

The hire industry keeps private tolls low.

 

I've seen some 'squit' on here, but that takes the biscuit 

[batrabill]

Cobblers, is the Covid truce over???

It was great while it lasted. 

[floydraser]

So someone said something positive about the BA and/or JP, Paladin then comes in with a very cleverly worded post, JM backs up everything Paladin writes and off we go again: same old same old same old....

 

[JennyMorgan]

23 minutes ago, floydraser said:

So someone said something positive about the BA and/or JP, Paladin then comes in with a very cleverly worded post, JM backs up everything Paladin writes and off we go again: same old same old same old....

Hopefully you are inwardly digesting and absorbing said cleverly worded post!

 

Batrabill inevitably popped up with:

Cobblers, is the Covid truce over???

It was great while it lasted. 

 

What truce? Did anyone tell those nice folk at Yare House? 

1 hour ago, FreedomBoatingHols said:

The hire industry keeps private tolls low.

How? 

If anything the private sector is now subsidizing the hire industry. Indeed, at the moment, that subsidy is quite substantial. I won't go into detail, at the moment, but I do considered that the multiplier, all things considered, is now growingly unfair.