Email/report From John Packman

[floydraser]

2 minutes ago, JennyMorgan said:

Hopefully you are inwardly digesting and absorbing said cleverly worded post!

Nope, getting bored with it already. I wondered how long it would be before someone kicked off and I note your posts were quite restrained until your mate came along....

1 hour ago, FreedomBoatingHols said:

The hire industry keeps private tolls low. 

Difficult to prove either way I imagine; hardly worth arguing about, but that won't stop anybody.

 

 

[Oddfellow]

8 minutes ago, JennyMorgan said:

 

If anything the private sector is now subsidizing the hire industry. Indeed, at the moment, that subsidy is quite substantial. I won't go into detail, at the moment, but I do considered that the multiplier, all things considered, is now growingly unfair.

You can always turn it on it's head I suppose. If any one element (private or hire) were to be lost, the other would have to make up the shortfall. Given the fact that if a fleet goes then that's mutiple boats in one hit, it's reasonable to look at it through hire. It's also reasonable to suggest that, hypothetically, you lose a fleet of 30 boats, you will need around 90 private boats to be registered to cover the loss. 

 

[Oddfellow]

9 minutes ago, floydraser said:

Nope, getting bored with it already. I wondered how long it would be before someone kicked off and I note your posts were quite restrained until your mate came along....

Difficult to prove either way I imagine; hardly worth arguing about, but that won't stop anybody.

 

 

Not too hard to prove if anyone has the time. The figures are in the public domain. 

But again, this has become a private vs hire debate. FFS, it's dull. I am a private and hire toll payer. All I really care about is that my tolls give me a decent river system to use that's well maintained, policed, and not extortionate in terms of cost. Like returning my boy to school in September whether we're in the middle of a predicted second wave or not, I seem to have little choice; I can comply  or pay a fine. What I can't do as an individual is much else: I can bleat about it, make forum posts to measure how well my points are received and opinions shared but very little else because nobody who's in a position to make a change is listening or interested. 

 

[floydraser]

11 minutes ago, FreedomBoatingHols said:

Not too hard to prove if anyone has the time. 

My point exactly, so if nobody comes along with figures to the contrary, you're right Andy.

[Vaughan]

3 hours ago, JennyMorgan said:

25 minutes ago, JennyMorgan said:

If anything the private sector is now subsidizing the hire industry.

the private sector has every right to question the largess that has been presented to the hire industry.

Both these comments imply that payment is being made from one to support the other, which is not the case.

The hire fleets have not received largesse, from the BA or the private owners.  All that the BA have done is to alter the dates on which stage payments are made, to allow for better cash flow towards the latter half of the season.  Let's look at the small print of that e-mail again : 

Once a hire boat is put into commission for hire, rather than mothballed, it will pay the full toll for the year, which has always been the case and could I please mention, I have been saying that all through the last 3 months!

There will be a review in September to try and see whether yards will have enough income to survive the winter and that is when the BA may well lobby for them to have government assistance.  For the moment they are not being paid anything by anyone, except by whatever customers they can manage to retrieve from this crisis.

I would guess that any boats that remain mothballed will be put up for sale (if they are not already) and then we shall start to see the real effects of the recession. 

[MauriceMynah]

36 minutes ago, FreedomBoatingHols said:

But again, this has become a private vs hire debate.

That was not my intention, and I'm not sure that it has. I said I'd be interested as to the over all figures. I am certainly not saying that one side is supporting the other, in fact I said I reckoned the figures would be close, a feeling I still have. Also it seems to be taken that I was referring to the tolls. I was not. I was wondering about all the income for the local community. Not just Brammerton but the Butchers and Bakers. (sadly the candlestick makers have left Stokesby.

[Poppy]

4 minutes ago, MauriceMynah said:

That was not my intention, and I'm not sure that it has. I said I'd be interested as to the over all figures.

MM, I'm not altogether certain you have anything to apologise for. It doesn't seem to be your innocent but relevant comment that 'started anything'.

[ranworthbreeze]

10 minutes ago, MauriceMynah said:

That was not my intention, and I'm not sure that it has. I said I'd be interested as to the over all figures. I am certainly not saying that one side is supporting the other, in fact I said I reckoned the figures would be close, a feeling I still have. Also it seems to be taken that I was referring to the tolls. I was not. I was wondering about all the income for the local community. Not just Brammerton but the Butchers and Bakers. (sadly the candlestick makers have left Stokesby.

We used to go into the candle workshop when it used to be open At Stokesby.

 

[Hylander]

Received a moment ago in my email.....   Delete please mods if on here before.

 

https://mailchi.mp/visitthebroads/summer-2020?e=9fffd49a2d

[Poppy]

"Safety measures are in place"  according to the video - but not a safety jacket for the lass clanind down the fore deck of the day boat !

More SUPBs, they do seem increasingly popular , but who has rights , paddle board, motor boat , sail boat ?

[JennyMorgan]

1 hour ago, Vaughan said:

Both these comments imply that payment is being made from one to support the other, which is not the case.

My thought is that the BA waterways work, at the moment, is effectively being financed solely by the private sector rather than shared as it always has been. Granted that the actual finances are probably being shored up from the BA's ample reserves but the harsh reality is that at the present moment one sector is having a payment holiday. 

I have every sympathy with the industry which has for so long been the backbone of the Broads. Nevertheless all laid up afloat boats should have been treated the same, private or commercial, at least that is how I see it.  The pain should have been shared all three ways.

I went past the yards at St Olaves yesterday, lots of boats still on the bank. I do worry for the Broads, not just the commercial side of it. I do wonder just how many boats, private or hire, will be up for sale this winter. Sad, worrying times, whichever hat you or I might be wearing. I have a good friend, a boat salesman, very successful in the past, he's just lost his job. He probably won't be the last.

[floydraser]

11 minutes ago, JennyMorgan said:

My thought is that the BA waterways work, at the moment, is effectively being financed solely by the private sector rather than shared as it always has been. Granted that the actual finances are probably being shored up from the BA's ample reserves but the harsh reality is that at the present moment one sector is having a payment holiday. 

I have every sympathy with the industry which has for so long been the backbone of the Broads. Nevertheless all laid up afloat boats should have been treated the same, private or commercial, at least that is how I see it.  The pain should have been shared all three ways.

I went past the yards at St Olaves yesterday, lots of boats still on the bank. I do worry for the Broads, not just the commercial side of it. I do wonder just how many boats, private or hire, will be up for sale this winter. Sad, worrying times, whichever hat you or I might be wearing. I have a good friend, a boat salesman, very successful in the past, he's just lost his job. He probably won't be the last.

That's better. So now is not the time to start bashing the BA again.

My sympathies are with anyone working and in fear of losing their job. That was me in 1992 and I did lose my job. It was a long, hard road back, and the only advice is try to keep spirits up and keep plugging away. 

[Oddfellow]

45 minutes ago, JennyMorgan said:

Nevertheless all laid up afloat boats should have been treated the same, private or commercial, at least that is how I see it. 

 

47 minutes ago, JennyMorgan said:

Nevertheless all laid up afloat boats should have been treated the same, private or commercial, at least that is how I see it.  The pain should have been shared all three ways.

Peter, you are arguing with yourself.

If the hire industry is having a payment holiday and is expected to make full payment anyway, the pain is being shared all three ways. There was always provision for laid-up, unused commercial craft in the Broads Act. It's not only done and dusted, but very old news. 

If your suggestion is that there should not have been a payment holiday, fleets might have already gone bust with the loss of hire tolls being an annual gap that needed plugging.   
 

 

[JennyMorgan]

35 minutes ago, floydraser said:

That's better. So now is not the time to start bashing the BA again.

It pleases me that you appear to think that I am not bashing the BA , subtle or what! 

It does concern me as to the way the BA has reacted to the tolls in relation to boats that are laid up, both hire or private.

It also concerns me as to why  JP is cow-towing to the hire industry. I am quite sure that he will expect a payback.

[floydraser]

9 minutes ago, JennyMorgan said:

It pleases me that you appear to think that I am not bashing the BA , subtle or what! 

It does concern me as to the way the BA has reacted to the tolls in relation to boats that are laid up, both hire or private.

It also concerns me as to why  JP is cow-towing to the hire industry. I am quite sure that he will expect a payback.

Well JP's email address is on the first post here and if you join the other forum he can be contacted on there. He sounds approachable so you could take up your concerns with him directly.

[Poppy]

17 minutes ago, FreedomBoatingHols said:

 

Peter, you are arguing with yourself.

If the hire industry is having a payment holiday and is expected to make full payment anyway, the pain is being shared all three ways. There was always provision for laid-up, unused commercial craft in the Broads Act. It's not only done and dusted, but very old news. 

If your suggestion is that there should not have been a payment holiday, fleets might have already gone bust with the loss of hire tolls being an annual gap that needed plugging.   
 

 

Nobody (appears) to be suggesting that there should not have been a payment holiday, but that both hire fleets and private owners should be treated equally . For what it's worth I was afloat as soon as I was able,soI am not calling for myself!

[CambridgeCabby]

On 02/07/2020 at 14:51, FreedomBoatingHols said:

I have been told that hospitals are gearing up for an early Autumn second wave. 

All hospitals are remaining at readiness in case of a “spike” , but are not gearing up as such for any specific future date .

What they are currently doing is trying to get back to a normality and catch up on surgeries postponed due to covid-19

 

[Tempest]

11 minutes ago, CambridgeCabby said:

All hospitals are remaining at readiness in case of a “spike” , but are not gearing up as such for any specific future date .

What they are currently doing is trying to get back to a normality and catch up on surgeries postponed due to covid-19

 

Yep...

Its called contingency planning which every reputable organisation should do

Glad to see this is happening

[JennyMorgan]

35 minutes ago, FreedomBoatingHols said:

If the hire industry is having a payment holiday and is expected to make full payment anyway, the pain is being shared all three ways. There was always provision for laid-up, unused commercial craft in the Broads Act. It's not only done and dusted, but very old news. 

If your suggestion is that there should not have been a payment holiday, fleets might have already gone bust with the loss of hire tolls being an annual gap that needed plugging.   

The hire industry is expected to make full payment on boats that are hired out, fair enough. But it has been clearly stated that the situation will be reviewed in September, meaning that the door is open for further exemptions or adjustments.

I am not sure that I was suggesting that there should not have been a payment holiday. My gripe was and is that the private sector is being treated differently to the hire fleet. A laid-up boat is a laid-up boat is a laid-up boat and all should be treated the same.

It might be very old news now but that does not make it right or fair. 

The BA should learn to adjust its aspirations to its income. Norfolk isn't Hampshire.

The hire fleets need protecting, so do the yards, marinas, pubs and attractions, and so do the many private boat owners who won't be commissioning their boats this year. .

[JennyMorgan]

58 minutes ago, floydraser said:

He sounds approachable so you could take up your concerns with him directly.

I have spent very many hours in J.P's company. Yes, he is approachable, indeed is good company. However, there is the 'brick  wall' factor to overcome. I have no doubt whatsoever that he is well aware of what is written on this forum, as others, after all he employs a communications department in order to monitor the forums, just in case someone writes something naughty!

[floydraser]

2 hours ago, JennyMorgan said:

I have spent very many hours in J.P's company. Yes, he is approachable, indeed is good company. However, there is the 'brick  wall' factor to overcome. I have no doubt whatsoever that he is well aware of what is written on this forum, as others, after all he employs a communications department in order to monitor the forums, just in case someone writes something naughty!

I don't think that fully excuses some of your comments on here. You would be better challenging him directly of "cow-towing" rather than trying to justify your words here. You don't come over as being very brave.

[Maxwellian]

I see the broken record is playing again

[SwanR]

I don't think it's fair that personal comments are posted against John Packman. Whether right or wrong, criticism against an organisation maybe, but things always seem to turn personal. And we've heard it so many times.

[Bernard]

It seems on here the BA could offer 10 years free tolls and 2 gold bars each and someone would find fault!

[DaveRolaves]

Our Marina at St Olaves is busy. There are more boats moored there than there have been in the past three years. If you look at the boats that were displayed for sale then many have been sold and are not there anymore. It looks like people are keen to get back onto the water. Looking forward to tomorrow when we can use our boat and stay on her for a few nights.