Vat Tourism Cut To 5%

[DAVIDH]

2 hours ago, jeffbroadslover said:

Hoseasons are using some very confusing excuse not to drop the VAT to 5% though so having to pay the full 20% for our September holiday, needless to say will never book with them again.

Wouldn't Hoseasons, as agents, need to get agreement from the boatyards as to whether the  VAT reduction should be passed on to the customer. Can't imagine the boatyards would stand for a situation where savings were being made by Hoseasons and not shared out with them. 

[750XL]

Just to add a bit of balance to the discussion, although I could be wrong and will gladly be told I am...

I just had a brief look at Barnes, Richardsons, Waveney, Herbert Woods and Ferry Marina online and it doesn't look like any of those are passing on the VAT reduction (if indeed they are actually entitled to it) either. So perhaps the Hoseasons bashing is a bit premature. 

Similarly, we're off camping in the Lakes in a few weeks and I didn't find any campsites passing on the savings either. Personally, I'm happy to let them keep the 15% after the year we've had. 

[CambridgeCabby]

VAT is a tax levied by U.K. gov which is collected at source by a third party , ie The holiday company or hire yard , shop , tradesman etc etc ,if the level of vat is reduced then the respective agent has no right to keep monies that were in effect never theirs .

When customers paid for their holidays they were subject to x pounds plus vat and if they paid vat at 20% they are legally entitled to a return of the tax reduction given, any retention of these funds I am in no doubt is illegal .

[Jbx5]

I have a business you can’t collect vat at 20% when the rate is 5% And pocket the difference this is cheating the customer at least 

Kris cruisers on the Thames automatically sent me a revised bill for our forth coming holiday without asking. 

John 

[ExSurveyor]

23 minutes ago, Jbx5 said:

I have a business you can’t collect vat at 20% when the rate is 5% And pocket the difference this is cheating the customer at least 

Unless the original price is quoted as inclusive of Vat. If they add the rider , at the current rate, then they must reduce the final cost.

If they omit the rider, Vat is just part of the costs the same as other overheads, they are collecting the correct level of Vat and paying it to HMRC.

A thousand pound holiday is still the same value to the customer.

The drawback of omitting the rider is if the rate of Vat rises the business would have to to make up the difference.

 As one of my businessess is involved in the construction sector we show all quotations and invoices net, plus Vat as rates can vary from zero to 5⅝ or the full rate. 

[WherryNice]

Lifted this from .Gov website, just to clarify the situation for boats...

"The hire of a boat will qualify for the temporary reduced rate provided that it is suitable for holiday accommodation and is being held out in this way. Boats being hired for a day to enjoy the activity of sailing for example will not qualify for the temporary reduced rate as they are not being used for holiday accommodation."

Taken from here

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/hotels-holiday-accommodation-and-vat-notice-7093

 

 

[Bytheriver]

I only read this thread this morning this is from Hoseasons .

Prices include VAT (where applicable) at the rates applicable at the time of printing and are subject to change if the rates or application of the tax changes. In the event of a change in the rate of VAT during the course of the year, your booking will on behalf of the boat operator or service provider be invoiced at the new amount of VAT unless you have already taken your holiday or paid the balance in full prior to the date of the change.

Perfectly clear -

Is the reduction not to encourage people to use services rather than provide extra income for businesses like the Stamp Duty reduction to stimulate the market? 

When VAT started and the VAT inspector was the most feared person in the world businesses, claimed they were glorified tax collectors  however I suspect that with modern IT it is not the  hassle it was?

It took Local Authorities some time to realise they needed VAT separated out and a registration number even for Petty Cash items like a key being cut - you got some funny looks from little local shops.

[Malcolm Withell]

Ours is not a hire boat but a holiday cottage.   However, I think Graham is right.   I have paid the full amount but have still asked the question regarding the VAT.   When I get a definitive answer I will let you know. This holiday cottage is not Hoseasons but  Dont even think about ringing Hoseasons , spent another 3 hrs today telephoning and got nowhere.    Have tried, cancelling your holiday, booking a holiday and enquiring about a holiday and you get the same scenario, they just dont want to answer.

We can't get any answer from Hoseasons either. We've booked a houseboat for October and fortunately have a booking reference, but we haven't had the confirmation we should have had within 24 hours, and none of the 'categories' fits a simple enquiry about the booking. All we need to establish is that we can take the houseboat from the Monday as we have things happening over the first weekend and can't take over on Saturday. Fortunately we haven't paid everything upfront.
I strongly suspect a lot of companies are using this coronavirus thing as an excuse - I mean, they've had five months to get used to the measures and I can't think most of their staff have died of the plague. The company I am with moved over 1000 customer service staff out over one weekend in March and equipped them with laptops so that they could carry on seamlessly working from home. It was business as usual within 48 hours, and the staff have actually been more productive.

Sent from the Norfolk Broads Network mobile app

[DAVIDH]

1 hour ago, Malcolm Withell said:

We've booked a houseboat for October and fortunately have a booking reference, but we haven't had the confirmation we should have had within 24 hours, and none of the 'categories' fits a simple enquiry about the booking. All we need to establish is that we can take the houseboat from the Monday as we have things happening over the first weekend and can't take over on Saturday.

Malcolm, insert your booking ref. number and surname on this page, which will bring up a digital version of the confirmation email.
https://www.hoseasons.co.uk/recall-booking
Have you tried calling the owner of the houseboat to tell them you're arriving late? That should suffice, though get them to write an email to you to confirm.

Regarding the lack of staff and the experience of your company, it really depends how it's been affected by the virus. The fact that the staff were up and running again in 48 hours, suggests it's an industry which could carry on, as nobody was furloughed. Travel and tourism was brought to it's knees from March, as nobody was booking, people were cancelling and as a result money was not still flowing into businesses - just the opposite in fact. That's why so many companies furloughed at the time, and will likely continue into October. 

[Hylander]

2 hours ago, Malcolm Withell said:

We can't get any answer from Hoseasons either. We've booked a houseboat for October and fortunately have a booking reference, but we haven't had the confirmation we should have had within 24 hours, and none of the 'categories' fits a simple enquiry about the booking. All we need to establish is that we can take the houseboat from the Monday as we have things happening over the first weekend and can't take over on Saturday. Fortunately we haven't paid everything upfront.
I strongly suspect a lot of companies are using this coronavirus thing as an excuse - I mean, they've had five months to get used to the measures and I can't think most of their staff have died of the plague. The company I am with moved over 1000 customer service staff out over one weekend in March and equipped them with laptops so that they could carry on seamlessly working from home. It was business as usual within 48 hours, and the staff have actually been more productive.

Sent from the Norfolk Broads Network mobile app
 

Hi Malcolm

In the end after telephoning for about 5 hours and getting no response, emailing 4 times, writing personally to their office which is down to the road from my house,  I then decided to contact my MP.     Within 24 hrs of doing that Hoseasons had rung me confirmed my booking and emailed me confirmation of my booking.   Do tell why on Gods earth do have to go to such lengths to get a result.     I still do not know what magic wand my MP Peter Aldous has but it worked.

 

Hoseasons confirmed to me that if you book direct with the boatyard then you cannot get the information of your booking on their site, so now I know why that was fruitless.   Good luck.

 

 

 

[Malcolm Withell]

I'm trying to find out who owns the houseboats and how to contact them but searching on them just seems to bring up the various companies advertising them.

Sent from the Norfolk Broads Network mobile app

[Bluesman54]

On 27/08/2020 at 17:35, jeffbroadslover said:

Having read the report at the link given by Bluesman54 back in July I think it does apply

Jeff

And here’s the link https://britishmarine.co.uk/coronavirus and below are quotes taken from Hoseasons covid page.

“Hoseasons does not own the boat accommodation. Instead, we act as a booking and marketing agent for our boat owners and provide a booking service to customers. These services are not within the scope of the changes announced. This means that the applicable VAT rate for any services provided by Hoseasons remain at 20%.

HMRC has now clarified that the temporary 5% VAT rate applies to services provided by the boat owners to the customer. The rental price charged to customers is set by the boat owners. Where the boat yard is VAT registered, the rental price charged by the boat yard is inclusive of VAT. During the period in which the change applies, the VAT included in the rental price payable by customers will be set at the rate of 5%.”

Might be an age thing but I find that very confusing.

Ian

 

[SwanR]

I think what it basically says is that if you book directly with the yard then they should be charging you the lower VAT rate reducing the overall cost of your holiday if all of the conditions apply such as when you book etc. If they don’t then they must be increasing their base price to add less VAT and charge you the same amount. I still think this was designed to help businesses by getting consumers spending not as a way for the business to increase their prices. 

Just my opinion and I’m no expert. So respect for other viewpoints. 

[Hylander]

On 28/08/2020 at 21:39, Malcolm Withell said:

I'm trying to find out who owns the houseboats and how to contact them but searching on them just seems to bring up the various companies advertising them.

Sent from the Norfolk Broads Network mobile app
 

It is a mine field and should not be like this.   They are quick enough to take the money , it should be law that they immediately send an email to you confirming your booking.    Otherwise I could advertise a holiday and bugger off with the money.     A holiday is more than just the holiday,  it is the excitement of booking the holiday,   getting the confirmation of the holiday and when you have to pay the balance and any other relevant information that a customer needs to know.     It is the whole experience, not just the booking and oh well we have their money and nothing.

I do sympathise with you as I had weeks of sleepless nights worrying about our booking.

 

 

[MauriceMynah]

1 hour ago, Bluesman54 said:

And here’s the link https://britishmarine.co.uk/coronavirus and below are quotes taken from Hoseasons covid page.

“Hoseasons does not own the boat accommodation. Instead, we act as a booking and marketing agent for our boat owners and provide a booking service to customers. These services are not within the scope of the changes announced. This means that the applicable VAT rate for any services provided by Hoseasons remain at 20%.

HMRC has now clarified that the temporary 5% VAT rate applies to services provided by the boat owners to the customer. The rental price charged to customers is set by the boat owners. Where the boat yard is VAT registered, the rental price charged by the boat yard is inclusive of VAT. During the period in which the change applies, the VAT included in the rental price payable by customers will be set at the rate of 5%.”

Might be an age thing but I find that very confusing.

Ian

 

I read that to mean that Hoseasons will still have to charge the full rate of VAT on their part of the booking arrangements (their "commission") which in turn will naturally be passed on to the consumer. So, using round figures, if the hire charge is £1000, and Hoseasons charge 10% commission (£100), they will have to add £20 for VAT,  but the hire company only has to add 5% to the total bill (now £1120) of £56 instead of the 20% £224, giving the hirer a saving of £168.

There will be other knock-on effects but I read that to be the gist!  

[Bluesman54]

m

24 minutes ago, MauriceMynah said:

I read that to mean that Hoseasons will still have to charge the full rate of VAT on their part of the booking arrangements (their "commission") which in turn will naturally be passed on to the consumer. So, using round figures, if the hire charge is £1000, and Hoseasons charge 10% commission (£100), they will have to add £20 for VAT,  but the hire company only has to add 5% to the total bill (now £1120) of £56 instead of the 20% £224, giving the hirer a saving of £168.

There will be other knock-on effects but I read that to be the gist!  

Makes sense to me and to be honest that was how I was reading it, thank you, will have to wait until Sept 19th to see wether Brooms will do a refund or not as I’ve heard nothing as yet, I’m not holding my breath as you may well imagine.

[NotDeadYet]

Like Bluesman54, I'm booked with Broom (via Hoseasons) next month.  I will be chatting to them face to face about this business, although I expect the yards may be as confused as everyone else over this.  At present, I don't expect much joy because our original booking was cancelled due to lockdown and transferred to this later date.  That will no doubt generate a discussion about the actual date of the transaction - the ducking and diving has already started.

As already mentioned a couple of times in this thread, I willingly paid a certain price for this holiday, so the matter of a possible clawback of some VAT could be seen as a bonus, although getting it back would be very welcome.

As for Hoseasons, don't get me started - will avoid in future, if indeed that is possible.

[Broads01]

11 hours ago, NotDeadYet said:

As for Hoseasons, don't get me started - will avoid in future, if indeed that is possible.

Yes it's not only 100% possible, it's far preferable. I've not used Hoseasons for many years now and I've never seen the benefit of booking through them when you can book direct with the operator for the same price. Sometimes you actually get a better deal booking direct because boatyard loyalty schemes, such as Richardsons loyalty discount and Barnes hamper scheme, only apply for direct bookings. To my knowledge, the only boatyard not to have their own website is Bridgecraft and I'm sure they accept direct bookings by phone anyway. 

[DAVIDH]

28 minutes ago, Broads01 said:

To my knowledge, the only boatyard not to have their own website is Bridgecraft

And newly reinstated Summercraft Simon. Have to say that there is benefit in booking with Hoseasons (I would being an agent), in that they spend an awful lot of money on advertising to get people to the Broads in the first place. This Google Adwords ad at the top of the search results for the query "norfolk broads boat hire" will cost easily in excess of £1 per click, adding up to millions over a year, whether the person goes on to book or not. 
 

[Broads01]

Fair point David but I'd need a better incentive than that to book via them.