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Well!

So much for Government lists of those exempt.

Tried this morning prepared for giving explanation.

Did not have to explain.

They had the equivalent of bouncers posted at the entrance refusing entry to anyone without a mask. Despite the Government’s exemptions, they would not listen.

The same shop that I had used regularly over the last few months where all had been fine and everyone observed the 2 metre rules.

Rather than rely on social media hype and vigilantes to make life miserable for those unable to wear a mask It would have been far better to be honest in the first place when they imposed this so late in the day and said officially that if you cannot where a mask that you will have to go back under lockdown and get someone else to shop for you.

i  can cope and have someone else to get shopping for me.

My biggest problem Is how on earth do I explain to the elderly parent with limited understanding I live with that we can’t go to the shops anymore.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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For those who really feel that they want a badge then the following link is where you can print the government suggested exemption badge, or download on to your phone. It's worth noting that below the badges they state that you should NOT routinely be asked for written evidence. Written evidence includes exemption cards.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/face-coverings-when-to-wear-one-and-how-to-make-your-own?utm_source=cc5e0a2a-6d09-46c0-ac9d-2e524a911fba&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=govuk-notifications&utm_content=immediate

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I think this gives a whole new meaning to the expression "face-less authority"!  It used to be the hi-vis jacket, now it is the obligatory hiding of identity and interaction, behind a face covering.  Does this remind you of the hijab? or worse, the burkha?

I may as well stick my head up over the parapet on this, as I fear greatly for where this is taking us, in the long term, as a civilisation.

In France (which incidentally has already banned the hijab and the burkha in public) the wearing of masks in "enclosed public spaces" has been enforced since last Monday.  So for the first time, I have gone shopping in a face mask, since it is now the law and so I will abide by it.  I see it as a humiliation and meek submission to a totalitarian authority which has not given valid reason for its actions.  I see these masks as religious face coverings, as the literal meaning of religion is "what you personally believe in". But that should NOT become "what you are told to believe in".

I realise that some members have strong personal health concerns about the virus and I do not criticise that for one moment, although I remain personally unconvinced by official figures which are so much in disagreement with each other that they have become no better than Tony Blair's "dodgy dossier".  Nor do I have any respect left for "government policy" which changes every evening when some expert takes to a rostrum outside Downing Street.

My big problem with this is, where does it end?  When will we take off these masks and return to normal human gestures of communication (and mutual trust), or will we ever?  Will this just become part of what is left of society?  My young grandson is getting towards the age when he is going to want to start chasing girls.  So how is he going to develop a relationship or even a good friendship, if he can't even see whether his sparkling conversation is putting a smile on her face?  Even if she can hear him properly, behind his muzzle?

I have every right to feel this way and to voice this opinion, since I am a citizen of what is supposed to be a free, democratic and "westernised" society.  But I fear that these sort of impositions on daily human life (and there may yet be many more) are leading us down a road to subjugation to a "Far Eastern" totalitarianism.

 

 

 

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I have to agree with Ian on this one. We all have a choice and mine is to go along with his thoughts. My NHS daughter appears to be thinking on similar lines. Like me she is wary of outlets that rely on a one meter distancing rule. For example the reopening of playgrounds has to be open to question. My daughter simply avoids visiting our local park at Oulton Broad because of the temptation for her two young boys of the play area. How do you explain to a two and a four year old lively boy that they can't join in? I walk past the play area most days and very clearly the majority of young parents simply ignore any suggestion of social distancing. As for hygiene,  what hygiene? Irresponsible or what? In a close knit community perhaps not a problem but with visiting holiday makers being an unknown quantity there is inevitably a risk. If my grandchildren were to pick up Covid 19 then their mum would not be able to work on the Covid ward as she does. Mind you, the hospital where she works is Covid 19 free at the moment! 

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34 minutes ago, Arthur said:

Well!

So much for Government lists of those exempt.

Tried this morning prepared for giving explanation.

Did not have to explain.

They had the equivalent of bouncers posted at the entrance refusing entry to anyone without a mask. Despite the Government’s exemptions, they would not listen.

The same shop that I had used regularly over the last few months where all had been fine and everyone observed the 2 metre rules.

Rather than rely on social media hype and vigilantes to make life miserable for those unable to wear a mask It would have been far better to be honest in the first place when they imposed this so late in the day and said officially that if you cannot where a mask that you will have to go back under lockdown and get someone else to shop for you.

i  can cope and have someone else to get shopping for me.

My biggest problem Is how on earth do I explain to the elderly parent with limited understanding I live with that we can’t go to the shops anymore.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Can you tell us which store this was Arthur? Are you able to contact someone in authority in that store and explain the problem? After all, there are going to be many like yourself who find themselves in a difficult situation which could turn into an embarrassing and unnecessary episode. 

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4 hours ago, Chelsea14Ian said:

I was going to stop replying on my post.But I agree there will be some that will refuse to wear when in the samw way as some,carry on smoking  in non smoking  areas.Many of us that have problems due to medical conditions  that are exempted will try to explain  our conditions to those that challenge us,putting us in a unfair position. After  speaking  with my gp surgery.They don't have Authority to offer letters in support  of our condition sadly.Today I will a sheild,hopefully it won't affect  my breathing. 

If this is of any help to you.   I have order two full face shields.   I ordered them from Primatel.co.uk with the code MAIL7PPE30.

 

We went to Homebase in Lowestoft this morning (resisted the temptation to knock on Hoseasons front door) and it was fine.    Everyone wearing face masks that I saw , everyone avoiding like the plague everyone else.     No one stood on the door being self righteous.  

 

 

 

 

Face Shield.jpg

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1 hour ago, grendel said:

Maurice Mynah, I can fully understand the armband idea, unfortunately armbands of all sorts were used by a certain political party and those they persecuted to identify them to be singled out for excesses, I hardly think we want to go their again,.

Sorry Grendel, but that argument holds no water. Armbands are worn on many occasions by many people for many different reasons. Predominately innocent occasions by innocent people for innocent reasons.

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After contacting the store I was informed that this blanket ban on entry was totally incorrect and would be addressed with staff concerned.

To be fair to Retailers they have had this imposed on them at very short notice with full guidelines only issued yesterday.

Government saying that shopkeepers will not be responsible for policing the law and on the other hand the police saying that they will rely on shops  to ensure compliance.

 

 

 

 

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There is no doubt whatsoever there are exemptions no if buts I like many am exempted. I don't care what anyone  on this or for that matter anywhere  else thinks.My issue  is prove,I don't accept the DIY approach that then can be done by thise with no medical conditions. It needs to be done very easily by Government/NHS.Regarding weither or not you can prove if you've got covId19. Often some can't because some dont have symptoms. As for being refused entry because  you don't have a mask.If it happened to me I would  pursue it.

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We did go to B&Q then Aldi this morning. I did wear a shield it was far better then a mask.There was about four without face coverings. One chap asked when challenged to wear a mask,replied do I have to,think he went away.One challenged  in Aldi she put one on.It was noticeable people  were closer together. 

My opinion  is still the same and will not alter until we have official backing from Government/NHS. DIY Internet print offs are open too abuse. 

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Ian, you are exempt, no one can argue with that, and yet you have gone shopping twice today wearing a face shield and doing your best to protect the people around you. No one can argue with that, or ask for more. If only everyone follows your example we will all be a lot safer. You also didn't need a badge or letter to do that, but you might have been tempted not too if you had an official letter. I think that is why the government is not issuing letters or badges. It's also worth bearing in mind that there are other exempt groups, would the government be expected to issue cards for every child that is around or just under the age of 11? What about if you are travelling with someone who is deaf, which may only be occasionally. What about if you suffer with hay fever and during a heavy bout can not wear a mask, but can most of the time?  What about if I needed to use my asthma inhaler, I would take the mask off then and put it back on again when I felt comfortable to do so. Everybody just trying to do their best really is the best way. 

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I made about 100 masks for friends and family, and I find the research evidence convincing. A useful summary is Dr John Campbell on YouTube May 21st. ‘Reliable evidence for mask wearing’. This retired  NHS Doctor and Nurse Educator has a series of videos summarising all the reliable evidence to date on Coronavirus.

If you have worn a face shield you have done the best possible.

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1 hour ago, Arthur said:

After contacting the store I was informed that this blanket ban on entry was totally incorrect and would be addressed with staff concerned.

To be fair to Retailers they have had this imposed on them at very short notice with full guidelines only issued yesterday.

Government saying that shopkeepers will not be responsible for policing the law and on the other hand the police saying that they will rely on shops  to ensure compliance.

 

 

 

 

Sorry don't see that the management of the store, are not showing proper authority over their employees. Saying the guidelines only came out yesterday. Still gave the manager enough time to prepare a verbal briefing to the door staff. How the store runs is the managers remit no one else. Smacks of poor leadership to me. Possibly the six p's come to mind.

 

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I will go back in the next day or two and see if things have changed.

i agree with your comments re poor management.

likely the guys on the door were simply told to keep anyone not wearing a mask out.

The small convenience store near to me have been fully understanding and no problems there at all.

 

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18 minutes ago, Polly said:

I made about 100 masks for friends and family, and I find the research evidence convincing. A useful summary is Dr John Campbell on YouTube May 21st. ‘Reliable evidence for mask wearing’. This retired  NHS Doctor and Nurse Educator has a series of videos summarising all the reliable evidence to date on Coronavirus.

If you have worn a face shield you have done the best possible.

And very comfortable they are too Polly. I wear one every day, all day at work sitting at my desk.

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Just a few points. My view is clear  if you are exempted  by the Government/NHS its only right that you are supported by a official letter.I may be wrong  but if you suffer from hay fever you are NOT exempted. Dont know if you were referring to me but I'm not Asthmatic, I suffer from COPD and yes I use a puffer twice a day and easyhaler Salbutamol,which I can use up to four times a day.Yes I may well need to use that at any time of the day.Often I get a feeling when I need to us my puffer.

For whats its worth I don't think theres a hidden  adgena about exemptions.I see no reason why there isn't supporting documention. 

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As said before, and it’s going to be a problem, if your under 50, have no other conditions then your unlikely to die.

The closer you get to year zero your not going to suffer at all

The government must really start a campaign on all platforms explaining exceptions, getting the message out because on other forums it’s being pointed out there was no spike after the beaches, the demonstrations or illegal raves. 
I have apprentices asking “why? And can’t we keep the high risk people under total lock down?”

Believe me people will obey until they see reason not to. 
I don’t see these people as being selfish because they are very unlikely to have a problem, I see a government not really going all in on a solution 

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I Am not overly keen on wearing a mask whilst shopping as such as i do not find social distancing to much of a problem - that said if it lowers the risk of someone ending upon a ventilator or being poorly for the sake of what it is i shall pop one on and it really does not have to be such a problem for the short term 

 i wonder how many asthmatics or similar related illnesses   throw a scarf over their face on a cold winters day without complaining ??  

finny

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17 minutes ago, finny said:

I Am not overly keen on wearing a mask whilst shopping as such as i do not find social distancing to much of a problem - that said if it lowers the risk of someone ending upon a ventilator or being poorly for the sake of what it is i shall pop one on and it really does not have to be such a problem for the short term 

 i wonder how many asthmatics or similar related illnesses   throw a scarf over their face on a cold winters day without complaining ??  

finny

I'm not Asthmatic, many of which were not classed high risk such as me with COPD,made worse with pneumonia. 

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I am not pointing the gun at anyone Ian - i was shown a clip recently of a Doctor/surgeon  wired up to a ICU  monitor proving that a medical mask in no way impares your breathing  or oxygen levels in your lungs or blood stream

sometimes if we keep telling ourselves there is a problem we can not overcome - then there becomes a problem because we start to believe it 

just my thoughts 

finny 

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17 minutes ago, finny said:

I am not pointing the gun at anyone Ian - i was shown a clip recently of a Doctor/surgeon  wired up to a ICU  monitor proving that a medical mask in no way impares your breathing  or oxygen levels in your lungs or blood stream

sometimes if we keep telling ourselves there is a problem we can not overcome - then there becomes a problem because we start to believe it 

just my thoughts 

finny 

I`m waiting for mask with filter to arrive having tried the thin paper use only once type and a homemade thin cloth type (beautifully made) and can`t breathe after less than 5 minutes so have to quickly remove them.

I wonder what your good doctor would say now.

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24 minutes ago, finny said:

I am not pointing the gun at anyone Ian - i was shown a clip recently of a Doctor/surgeon  wired up to a ICU  monitor proving that a medical mask in no way impares your breathing  or oxygen levels in your lungs or blood stream

sometimes if we keep telling ourselves there is a problem we can not overcome - then there becomes a problem because we start to believe it 

just my thoughts 

finny 

Believe me, just sitting doing nothing with a mask on makes it difficult wearing a mask.If I walk even at slow pace my breathing becomes mush worse.No doubt 

 

the doctor/surgeon doesn't suffer from a serious lung condition.

Lets have a level playing field we are not after special treatment if they make the law, which they clearly have, then provide support to those of us exempted.

If anyone wants to swap places with me, providing there lungs are in better shape then mine feel free to swap.

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35 minutes ago, finny said:

was shown a clip recently of a Doctor/surgeon  wired up to a ICU  monitor proving that a medical mask in no way impares your breathing  or oxygen levels in your lungs or blood stream

Surely though all that proved was that someone with healthy lungs wasn't impaired by a mask, not a rigorous test even for that as only one sample!

A doctor should know better than to circulate something like that!

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1 hour ago, OldBerkshireBoy said:

I`m waiting for mask with filter to arrive having tried the thin paper use only once type and a homemade thin cloth type (beautifully made) and can`t breathe after less than 5 minutes so have to quickly remove them.

I wonder what your good doctor would say now.

He is not my doctor oldboy . I have a FP3 with a filter personally if I have to a prefer the surgical type I find if less restricted 

Finny

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