Hiring Boats + Syndicate + Private Find It Cheaper 2021

[Andrewcook]

 I'm wondering if Hiring Boats + Syndicates and Private Boat's will find things Cheaper in  2021 i.e Tolls / Fuel / Maintenance plus Mooring Fees due to this Coronavirus is upon us all at the moment.. At  this time there are Certain Counties in the UK are facing restrictions that effects every one I do really hope all this will be over by 2021?

Andrew Cook

[CambridgeCabby]

Sadly I think the simple answer to your wonderings is nope, nada, not a chance in hell.

The covid situation will undoubtably be used as an excuse to raise fees and prices by officialdom and private enterprise alike.

I hope I will be proved wrong but I doubt a bookie would give me very good odds 

[Cheesey69]

After what’s happening in Spain, it’s safer to stay home. More expensive I’d say

[ranworthbreeze]

Most boats be they hire, private or syndicate were mothballed for at least 3 months but were still costing their owners money, tolls, insurance, operating costs including refurbishment and repairs. The only saving has been on fuel, all the other costs have continued.

Regards

Alan

[ChrisB]

Covid 19 can only add to costs. If only because so many businesses are forced to run at such reduced capacity having absorbed all the on-costs to comply with the emergency.

The blunt truth is if you don't increase revenue you go under. Unfortunately that is across the board, not just the marine sector.

[Ray]

This year due to covid and quite a few other factors including quite a lot of repair and maintenance my costs equal roughly £2000 per hour cruising!

Of course that is nothing like normal or even normal for covid but it does demonstrate a worse case scenario. My running costs will definitely be lower next year and will of course improve over the rest of this year.

I just wanted to share my pain lol

[RS2021]

I'll be interested to see how the hire fleets end the year. A friend in business  (not boating related) said to me yesterday that during lockdown whilst sales were significantly down his main cost - salaries - were down even further, due to the government furlough scheme. Result profits up! I'm sure the big fleets put as many staff on furlough as they could and they were allowed to open in time for the summer peak season and now seem fully booked until at least the end of September and well booked in October. So overall, how does this compare to normal? How many average weeks hire/boat do the big fleets work on in a normal season? Often out of the main school holidays most fleets seem to usually operate well below capacity. So - assuming no second spike - will the fleets actually end the season in a much more reasonable position than most had anticipated?

[vanessan]

57 minutes ago, Ray said:

I just wanted to share my pain lol

Why should we share yours, we’ve got our own! 😉

[Lulu]

1 hour ago, Ray said:

This year due to covid and quite a few other factors including quite a lot of repair and maintenance my costs equal roughly £2000 per hour cruising!

Ouch! 
 

[Chelsea14Ian]

Agree with most. Running  coasts sadly have not decreased for our boat.Perhaps a few deals will crop up before the end of this very short season, who knows.Marina and myself tend to have a week abroad every  other year.June just  gone we were going for 5 days in Cornwall, sadly cancelled rearranged next year.We were going back to Berlin next year.not sure now.

[Oddfellow]

5 hours ago, CambridgeCabby said:

Sadly I think the simple answer to your wonderings is nope, nada, not a chance in hell.

The covid situation will undoubtably be used as an excuse to raise fees and prices by officialdom and private enterprise alike.

I hope I will be proved wrong but I doubt a bookie would give me very good odds 

If any one business cost goes up, it has to be recovered somewhere. But, in truth, the problem is that it snowballs immediately. If my supplier's, supplier's increase their cost, my supplier's need to adjust so that they don't lose out and thus I have to as well. The most exponential increases are in fuel, electricity and labour. 

 

1 hour ago, RS2021 said:

I'll be interested to see how the hire fleets end the year. A friend in business  (not boating related) said to me yesterday that during lockdown whilst sales were significantly down his main cost - salaries - were down even further, due to the government furlough scheme. Result profits up! I'm sure the big fleets put as many staff on furlough as they could and they were allowed to open in time for the summer peak season and now seem fully booked until at least the end of September and well booked in October. So overall, how does this compare to normal? How many average weeks hire/boat do the big fleets work on in a normal season? Often out of the main school holidays most fleets seem to usually operate well below capacity. So - assuming no second spike - will the fleets actually end the season in a much more reasonable position than most had anticipated?

As for hire fleets, it's hard for me to comment now as I barely qualify any more, but I doubt that the losses of four months of closure will be recovered. Sure, the fleets *MIGHT* be fully booked through September, but most would have had significant bookings in a normal September anyway. Let's suggest that a normal September was 40% booked and it's now nearly 100% booked. That's one month of perhaps just over double income from the norm. Maybe it stretches into October too. But when you add that up, fag packet style, that's say 2 extra months income which has to cover four months of losses. 

The BIG concern is the losses that carry forward. What I mean is that lots of people have deferred holidays until next year and all of these will have been paid for, at least in part. That equates to a lower income for 2021 as you've already had that money. There's also the possibility that deferred holidays in 2020 from lower price periods to high price periods have been reduced because the customer won't pay the uplift, meaning losses here too. 

Be under no illusion that this year will be a tough one on the tourist accommodation sector. Demand is off-the-scale right now, but the underlying difficulties of this year will bleed into next year too, maybe even 2022. And with Spain spiking now and a quarantine being imposed, there's one heck of a rocky road ahead. 

 

[MaceSwinger]

4 hours ago, Cheesey69 said:

After what’s happening in Spain, it’s safer to stay home. More expensive I’d say

We looked at a boat for next year for 2 weeks ago and it was c.£2,000 for the two weeks we specified. The same boat is now approaching £4,000 for the same 2 weeks.

[DAVIDH]

6 minutes ago, MaceSwinger said:

We looked at a boat for next year for 2 weeks ago and it was c.£2,000 for the two weeks we specified. The same boat is now approaching £4,000 for the same 2 weeks.

That look a hefty increase. I know the yards will have to increase prices in order to survive, but near on a 100% increase will mean the boat will stay on their moorings. Just out of interest, which boat and what dates? I've just checked a couple of boats one from Richardsons and one from Barnes for October, and both are the same price as in 2020. I think they have a book 2021 at 2020 prices on at the moment. Maybe double check the price? 

[MauriceMynah]

3 hours ago, RS2021 said:

I'll be interested to see how the hire fleets end the year. A friend in business  (not boating related) said to me yesterday that during lockdown whilst sales were significantly down his main cost - salaries - were down even further, due to the government furlough scheme. Result profits up! I'm sure the big fleets put as many staff on furlough as they could and they were allowed to open in time for the summer peak season and now seem fully booked until at least the end of September and well booked in October. So overall, how does this compare to normal? How many average weeks hire/boat do the big fleets work on in a normal season? Often out of the main school holidays most fleets seem to usually operate well below capacity. So - assuming no second spike - will the fleets actually end the season in a much more reasonable position than most had anticipated?

I didn't know whether to give a "Like" or a "Thank you" to this post. We have enough doom mongers talking us into a recession at the moment it's lovely to read some positive attitudes. Andy Banner is not the only one who seems only to believe in the negative outcome, he is one of many, including the press and TV.

I remember Alan Sugar complaining about the press sending us into the last recession. He was quite right, and unless we try very hard, we will let them do it again.

[dnks34]

I am eagerly awaiting news of next years Toll increase.  
 

Personally I suspect the Broads Authority may be about to make themselves more unpopular.
 

 

[JennyMorgan]

12 minutes ago, dnks34 said:

I am eagerly awaiting news of next years Toll increase.  
Personally I suspect the Broads Authority may be about to make themselves more unpopular.

Why would they want to do that? 

Because they can!

Recently another excellent member of the BA's staff has retired, this time after forty years. The BA published well deserved accolades pointing out that forty years ago there were only three members of staff at head-office. The Broads has not increased its area of control over that time, despite continuous efforts in that direction, but staffing levels have mushroomed out of all proportion.

I suspect that we shall have to endure the by now traditional percentage increase due to inflation that we all look forward to but any attempt to make up this year's shortfall will surely not be unanimously popular. Yare House and the NP agenda are both long overdue a pretty severe cull, in my honest opinion. 

[RS2021]

32 minutes ago, JennyMorgan said:

this year's shortfall

What shortfall? Hire boats are all out, so tolls paid. Private boats tolls paid. Boom (maybe short-lived?) in boat sales so brokerage boats previously laid up sold and boats tolled. I would have expected the BA to furlough most of its office staff, so savings made. I can't see where any shortfall for BA would come from. I'd expect a small surplus. There will be winners and losers from Covid 19. I can't see the BA being a loser. I'd be more worried for the pubs, cafes, shops and visitor attractions in the area. I only hope they get support from those who do holiday this year.

[Oddfellow]

47 minutes ago, MauriceMynah said:

I didn't know whether to give a "Like" or a "Thank you" to this post. We have enough doom mongers talking us into a recession at the moment it's lovely to read some positive attitudes. Andy Banner is not the only one who seems only to believe in the negative outcome, he is one of many, including the press and TV.

I remember Alan Sugar complaining about the press sending us into the last recession. He was quite right, and unless we try very hard, we will let them do it again.

I am saying it as I see it; that's ME not anybody else's influence.

It's incredibly hard to be upbeat when household names are shedding jobs by the thousands; Boots, M&S, BA, John Lewis closing stores, Cath Kidson closing down,  Dyson; the list of names just keeps increasing. Some 149,651 redundancies announced as of 23rd July. The government is openly telling us that there's a recession of epic proportions on the way and that it has done a great deal to save jobs and that it can't save every job. 

It is really hard to agree with your assessment, Maurice, that we (myself, others and the media et al) are talking up a recession when it's as clear as day that it's approaching fast and that it's probably as unstoppable as a tsunami. The government has done a great deal of financial propping up to try and avert the problem, but it, like everybody else, can see that it can only save so many jobs. 

As small as we are, we're seeing customers trying to cancel to save money. That tells me that there's no chance that that isn't being seen in other holiday companies and is a fair bet that families will be reining in the spending out of absolute necessity as well as fear of future necessity. 

The next 12 months are full of uncertainty and in uncertain times, people defer spending money on luxuries in case they don't have enough for the basics later on. I am not talking it up or believing a media narrative as I am quite experienced enough in the world of business and economics to evaluate a few parameters and arrive at an educated guess at a possible outcome. Basically, a few hundred thousand people spending like the sales have just opened isn't going to save this as the losses have already been made and the flow of job cuts is quite possibly going to get worse as the furlough rules change very soon and businesses can't cope with the increased expenditure. 

Is the press sending us into a recession? I can't see that. The press isn't making high-street workers redundant; 4 months of closure is and with incredibly poor comms from the government over safety (masks being a prime example), fear of becoming ill coupled with fear of reduced incomes is keeping people out of the high street too. 

As a bunch of individuals, we cannot spend our way out of this and save the situation. This needs radical international cooperation and out-of-the box thinking as this isn't just a UK problem. 

 
 

[Vaughan]

1 hour ago, MauriceMynah said:

We have enough doom mongers talking us into a recession at the moment it's lovely to read some positive attitudes. Andy Banner is not the only one who seems only to believe in the negative outcome, he is one of many, including the press and TV.

Let me give you some simple figures then, which come from my own experience in the business and not from Wikipedia, which could perhaps incline you to believe them? 

There are 34 bookable weeks available in a summer season.

17 of those have already been lost to the lockdown, which leaves 17, available for booking.

Any boatyard these days will tell you that a 20 week season is a poor one.

The revenue from an "average" season of 20 weeks assumes all the high price period weeks are booked at the full price :  if not, the average revenue will be a lot less. This will be the case this year since the season only started when it was well into the "high" season price periods. In other words, already too late.

Grendel is out on a boat right now, which he had booked for May, but he is now at the end of July having a "high season" week  at the low season price. This was caused by the virus and there will be a great deal more like this.

This also has a knock-on effect to next season where many weeks holidays will already have been deferred, at this year's early season price, not next year's price.

In the EDP article about not having enough boats, you may have noticed that Colin Buttifant of Ludham, who hires immaculate yachts, is having to let them out on alternate weeks only so that they can be deep cleaned between bookings. So he cannot now be looking at more than 8 or 9 weeks hire on average this year. Not sure how he will survive this winter on that.

I am not "talking us into a recession" but by God, I have been in enough of them of the Broads, to know what they look like! 

Call me a doom monger if you wish.

 

 

 

 

[VetChugger]

I am far from convinced that holidays in September will actually go ahead. I totally agree with Andy"s analysis of this situation and the creeping increase in figures in the UK and the important "R" number being back to 1 suggest that the next spike is going to be unavoidable. This is backed up by what is happening in Spain, France and Germany who were all better organised than us at the beginning. I take no pleasure at all in saying this and am still greatly worried.

[JennyMorgan]

1 hour ago, RS2021 said:

What shortfall? Hire boats are all out, so tolls paid. Private boats tolls paid.

Some private boats are 'tolls paid', the ones still on the bank and in the boatsheds are almost certainly 'tolls not paid'. No tolls from the speedboats this year and with so many regattas cancelled I know that several sailing club boats are therefore not being launched this year.

Agree that it is the support businesses that are most likely to suffer shortfalls. The unfortunate knock on effect of that is that if we lose any such businesses then the Broads become less attractive to holiday makers.

 

[Jbx5]

I have no doubt things will quieten down but at the moment the holiday hotspots around the UK are booming, people are spending money. I was talking to a guy NYA yesterday about a possible boat change and he said  they have only 40 or so boats left in stock compared with normally over 100 boats. I have lived through many recessions and this is unlike the beginning of any other I have witnessed. The housing market is booming as is most of the building trade. The car market is doing well I have recently changed my car and the second hand prices have gone up instead of down due to low stock. Regarding the Boatyard’s I think the season will extend well past October this year to hopefully offset a little the missing 3 months. So I’m afraid some can paint a black picture if it suits but I’m not. 

John

 

 

 

[JennyMorgan]

This morning my wife and I went to what is normally a hugely popular car boot sale. Got to say that I was expecting the crowds thus we were cautious and masked up!. Surprise, no massive crowd! Hard to be accurate but, despite the sunshine, I suspect that both stalls and customers were down by at least 30 if not 50% over the same time during normal times. Talking to one of the regular stall holders, with whom we have struck up a friendship over the years, he commented that people were behaving themselves but by and large they weren't spending. A sign of the times and times to come perhaps? 

[CambridgeCabby]

What Covid-19 has without a shadow of a doubt effected is the move away from the high street to online purchase habits , it was happening anyway but has escalated greatly so we are seeing now what in effect would have taken probably ten years to reach this stage without Covid.

This is the direct cause behind many of the redundancies we are seeing , as an example Cath Kitson is still thriving as an online retailer and will most likely see their year on profits by 2021  showing a very healthy balance , their share value has actually gone up after the high street closure announcement .

Tourism and associated trades are a different “kettle of fish”, and I fully understand where those in the trade are coming from , the hire season has limited weeks where the boats can rent but IMHO those yards that can brave through and survive this year and next could be looking at a rosy future , where more people look to holiday in the U.K. , plus all those rushing to book this year as they cannot fly to where ever whom have never tried a boating holiday many will be hooked as so many of us have been over the years and become repeat bookers 

[Cheesey69]

27 minutes ago, Jbx5 said:

I have no doubt things will quieten down but at the moment the holiday hotspots around the UK are booming, people are spending money. I was talking to a guy NYA yesterday about a possible boat change and he said  they have only 40 or so boats left in stock compared with normally over 100 boats. I have lived through many recessions and this is unlike the beginning of any other I have witnessed. The housing market is booming as is most of the building trade. The car market is doing well I have recently changed my car and the second hand prices have gone up instead of down due to low stock. Regarding the Boatyard’s I think the season will extend well past October this year to hopefully offset a little the missing 3 months. So I’m afraid some can paint a black picture if it suits but I’m not. 

John

 

 

 

I can tell you road freight traffic down And so is normal traffic 

Fuel tankers traffic much lighter. 
I personally use these as a barometer on how well well are doing