Broads Authority Financial Position.

[marshman]

Shame the Councils could not continue to be responsible as they did for so long, rather than this wholly unsatisfactory situation as now exists almost every different rubbish point!

[Vaughan]

12 hours ago, Daphne said:

We have all lost out this year in one way and another. Some have lost more than others. I hope the boat hire companies end up making fair contribution.

Excuse me, but when reading the thread I think you missed this bit :

On 01/09/2020 at 06:41, Vaughan said:

but please remember that all hire boats on hire this year will pay the full toll anyway.  They are not getting it "on the cheap".

I have made this point several times so far this year but it still seems to be misunderstood.  Back in June, the hire boats had not paid it all because, being seasonal businesses, they pay in stage payments during the hiring season.  But they are all still going to pay the full toll for the year!

In the old days of the 60s and 70s the tolls were paid by Blakes in March and then charged out to the member boatyards during the season.  Those days alas, are long gone!

[MauriceMynah]

12 hours ago, marshman said:

I do think to base any comment on the toll figures in PW lengthy opening post could be a little misleading as those figures are likely to be very out of date - no, I would go as far as saying I expect they are usefully out of date!!!

An excellent point well made.

12 hours ago, marshman said:

Can we just wait until we know the exact situation before jumping to perhaps the wrong conclusions?

No, I can't agree with that.

Jumping to wrong conclusions, distorting the situation and slinging mud at the wrong people is so much harder when one is in possession of all the facts. 

[Poppy]

No, I can't agree with that.
Jumping to wrong conclusions, distorting the situation and slinging mud at the wrong people is so much harder when one is in possession of all the facts. 

“Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit but the highest form of intelligence,” wrote that connoisseur of wit, Oscar Wilde. Whether sarcasm is a sign of intelligence or not, communication experts and marriage counselors alike typically advise us to stay away from this particular form of expression. The reason is simple: sarcasm expresses the poisonous sting of contempt, hurting others and harming relationships. As a form of communication, sarcasm takes on the debt of conflict."



Sent from the Norfolk Broads Network mobile app

[JennyMorgan]

Wow, Poppy, that is deep! Mind you, I'm impressed, what with me being the sarcastic, cynical old bugger that I am, at least where unaccountable local government quangos with a history of deception and manipulation are concerned!

[marshman]

No Vaughan, I understand, but if people don't want to understand what you said, thats an entirely different matter simply because people believe what they want to believe irrespective of the fact that some don't know how it works!

I just happen to guess ( know?) the current tolls situation is not as bad as portrayed in that as disclosed in my old mates OP neither am I surprised that the financial situation at the BA is a bit squeaky? Tell me whose situation is not very different this year?

And things will not get much better given the amount of debt we are now in! Does anyone really NOT believe that somewhere along the line taxes are going to have to go up to pay for it all - similarly tolls? Who's surprised? So what I really cannot understand what this whole post is actually about!

[JennyMorgan]

11 minutes ago, marshman said:

So what I really cannot understand what this whole post is actually about!

I'll say it again, why did the Authority feel that the information should be withheld in the first place? The same applies to all their financial matters, it is our money that is being manipulated as well as being spent. Beyond that I actually think that the information contained, and perhaps strategically released, is indeed both helpful to us and to the Authority, it is, to a degree, a reassuring document.

[marshman]

With the greatest of respect I just think you are wrong to believe it was "withheld"!!! Do you believe that you feel that, we as the end users are so important, we should feel the need to be part of every budgetary discussion? Even a very out of date one?

Don't tell me - let me guess....!

[Poppy]

Of course, had it not been 'witheld' , but become public earlier then it would have been 'relevant' by your definition, wouldn't it Marshman.
There is no reasonable cause for this not to be publicly visible, either now or earlier. Nothing is 'commercially sensitive '.

With the greatest of respect I just think you are wrong to believe it was "withheld"!!! Do you believe that you feel that, we as the end users are so important, we should feel the need to be part of every budgetary discussion? Even a very out of date one?
Don't tell me - let me guess....!

Sent from the Norfolk Broads Network mobile app

[JennyMorgan]

1 hour ago, marshman said:

With the greatest of respect I just think you are wrong to believe it was "withheld"!!!

Then why, with corresponding respect, was it headed "Not for publication by virtue of paragraphs 3 of part 1 of schedule 12a to the Local Government Act 1972 "?

[marshman]

OK you lot win - although I still fail to see what was interesting in it other than a conspiracy theory!!

Now if I told you the existing situation, perhaps that would be more interesting??? ( if I knew it!! )

[JennyMorgan]

26 minutes ago, marshman said:

Now if I told you the existing situation, perhaps that would be more interesting??? ( if I knew it!! )

That could never be as interesting as what is written between the lines of the original subject document!!

[Paladin]

On 02/09/2020 at 11:55, marshman said:

With the greatest of respect I just think you are wrong to believe it was "withheld"!!!

 

 

22 hours ago, JennyMorgan said:

Then why, with corresponding respect, was it headed "Not for publication by virtue of paragraphs 3 of part 1 of schedule 12a to the Local Government Act 1972 "?

The minute in question is the minute of that part of the NavCom meeting of 11 June 2020, from which members of the public were excluded, i.e. exempt minutes under the LGA 1972.

That they have been published with the regular minutes of that meeting seems to me to have been an error, as the agenda for today's meeting reads:

15. Exclusion of the public The Authority is asked to consider exclusion of the public from the meeting under Section 100A of the Local Government Act 1972 for the consideration of the item below on the grounds that it involves the likely disclosure of exempt information as defined by Paragraphs 3 of Part 1 of Schedule 12A to the Act as amended, and that the public interest in maintaining the exemption outweighs the public benefit in disclosing the information.

16. To receive the Exempt Minutes from the meeting held on 11 June 2020 (Pages 86-88)

It will be interesting to see how that is dealt with at today's meeting. Will the public be excluded from the meeting so that the meeting can receive the exempt minutes, which have already been publicly published?

[JennyMorgan]

2 hours ago, Paladin said:

That they have been published with the regular minutes of that meeting seems to me to have been an error, 

I have a nagging doubt about the probability of them having been posted in error. I actually think that the BA's handling of the Covid 19 financial issues has, so far, been good and that the 'leaked' report reads quite well, in their favour. It's absolute hell being a cynic!

[CambridgeCabby]

We have now waited for three weeks for Yare House to confirm receipt and issue toll for our recent tender purchase , we had hoped to be able to use it last week , understand totally that Covid-19 measures prevent a visit in person to toll it but why they couldn’t permit me to re toll an existing previously tolled (number given to them) craft is ridiculous (albeit previously tolled by someone else), they have my details on record under Cerise Lady’s toll details .

Im sure that if we had used her the ever present rangers would have been on us and fined us , if they are able to issue short visit tolls to hirers on the spot as we saw them doing so to a hirer who also had an inflatable with outboard near Wayford then why the hell are they unable to issue one either online or by phone especially as they charge a full years toll so we are in effect paying for the weeks they are denying us its use .

[Paladin]

3 hours ago, Paladin said:

It will be interesting to see how that is dealt with at today's meeting. Will the public be excluded from the meeting so that the meeting can receive the exempt minutes, which have already been publicly published?

 

1 hour ago, JennyMorgan said:

I have a nagging doubt about the probability of them having been posted in error. I actually think that the BA's handling of the Covid 19 financial issues has, so far, been good and that the 'leaked' report reads quite well, in their favour. It's absolute hell being a cynic!

Leaked or not, the live video feed of the meeting was turned off, so that the committee could receive the exempt minutes. It seems that no-one realised they had already been published on the BA's web site, for all the world to see.

[Paladin]

29 minutes ago, CambridgeCabby said:

We have now waited for three weeks for Yare House to confirm receipt and issue toll for our recent tender purchase , we had hoped to be able to use it last week , understand totally that Covid-19 measures prevent a visit in person to toll it but why they couldn’t permit me to re toll an existing previously tolled (number given to them) craft is ridiculous (albeit previously tolled by someone else), they have my details on record under Cerise Lady’s toll details .

Im sure that if we had used her the ever present rangers would have been on us and fined us , if they are able to issue short visit tolls to hirers on the spot as we saw them doing so to a hirer who also had an inflatable with outboard near Wayford then why the hell are they unable to issue one either online or by phone especially as they charge a full years toll so we are in effect paying for the weeks they are denying us its use .

Did you, and the previous owner, follow the correct procedure? Had the previous toll expired?

Change of ownership - The seller/transferor must within 28 days of date of sale/transfer notify the Broads Authority of the sale/transfer by completing a Transfer of Ownership form. Until this is done the vessel may remain registered in the same ownership and the former owner may remain responsible for payment of tolls and compliance with the byelaws. The seller/Transferor should pass the registration certificate to the Purchaser/Transferee.The Purchaser/Transferee should with 28 days apply to the Broads Authority for a new registration certificate and should submit the old registration certificate for cancellation.

If the previous toll had expired, it seems you have 28 days grace. But if you want to use the tender anyway, you can either buy a short visit toll (available from any number of outlets https://www.broads-authority.gov.uk/boating/owning-a-boat/tolls/short-visit-toll/short-visit-outlets ) or get one from the first ranger that stops you. The cost of the SVT is deductible from the cost of the annual toll.

[CambridgeCabby]

The tender wasn’t tolled last year as the previous owner no longer used it , so he informed the BA to that end last year and it was listed as being no longer being tolled or on the Broads.

When speaking to the BA and giving previous reg number  (as required to do so if craft previously registered on the system) I was informed that it had to be treated as a new registration but will be issued with the same reg number 

[JennyMorgan]

2 hours ago, Paladin said:

It seems that no-one realised they had already been published on the BA's web site, for all the world to see.

There are people within that know full well that it had been published for the world to see. Strange, innit! 

[AEJB]

Cabby,

I don't know what's going on with your toll problem but that doesn't stop you useing your tender. Worst case will be paying for a short visit licence which is deducted from your annual toll.

You will not be fined unless you refuse to pay a toll.

[CambridgeCabby]

17 minutes ago, AEJB said:

Cabby,

I don't know what's going on with your toll problem but that doesn't stop you useing your tender. Worst case will be paying for a short visit licence which is deducted from your annual toll.

You will not be fined unless you refuse to pay a toll.

Trouble is payment ,in full , has already been sent for full toll , if I also purchase a short term toll I won’t be able to claim it back off next years toll only this years so it will be over and above what I have paid for this year .

dont object to paying my toll but I will be b*****ed if I’m paying them extra 

[JennyMorgan]

1 hour ago, CambridgeCabby said:

dont object to paying my toll but I will be b*****ed if I’m paying them extra 

You probably will, next year!

Personally I have never ever had anything but courteous and helpful responses from the Tolls office. 

[Paladin]

1 hour ago, CambridgeCabby said:

Trouble is payment ,in full , has already been sent for full toll , if I also purchase a short term toll I won’t be able to claim it back off next years toll only this years so it will be over and above what I have paid for this year .

dont object to paying my toll but I will be b*****ed if I’m paying them extra 

It seems that:

1. you have completed and submitted the correct application for registration, together with the correct amount for the annual toll, and the delay is with the tolls office, or

2. the paperwork and or the amount of payment was wrong and the tolls office can't register your tender.

In either case, I suggest you ring the tolls office to sort it out.

[BroadsAuthority]

12 hours ago, CambridgeCabby said:

Trouble is payment ,in full , has already been sent for full toll , if I also purchase a short term toll I won’t be able to claim it back off next years toll only this years so it will be over and above what I have paid for this year .

dont object to paying my toll but I will be b*****ed if I’m paying them extra 

Sorry you are experiencing difficulties with the tolls system Cambridge. I can’t say whether it is due to a delay in the office or not but as Paladin has suggested please give the Tolls team a ring on 01603 756080 and they will be happy to help.

Tom