Another Incident At Grt Yarmouth I'm Afraid.

[floydraser]

5 minutes ago, grendel said:

to be fair, you are hardly acting differently yourselves, a quick look in the mirror and you will find that you are doing exactly the same towards these people, who are giving their advice of long years in the industry, and know what does and doesnt work, by ignoring them and disrespecting their experience also up to the limits of TOS, and then crying foul to the moderators when you are given some of your own treatment back. your comment highlighted above could be considered an inflammatory post as you are basically accusing everyone else (other than yourselves) of being closed minded.

 i will ask once more with my moderator hat firmly positioned that everyone calms down and takes a moment to examine the views of others and responds politely or we will be forced to lock the thread.

I think this post is entirely unjustified and completely wrong.

RealWindmill made a perfectly sensible suggestion. So it was in ignorance of what already happens but it was met by a rather agressive reply from someone venting their frustration. After that is the usual standard forum rubbish of deliberate mis-interpretaions and replies based on them. Same old same old. Very unfair to pick out one poster, especially by a mod.

[Meantime]

9 minutes ago, grendel said:

this shows you are out of touch with current hiring procedures, the snippet from Richardsons handbook shows this as they already have all you ask with a £250 charge for recovery for running aground, this doesn't appear to have focused the minds of those still running aground.

Out of touch, maybe? I did suggest £500 not £250. Is that just Richardsons policy, or all hire yards? But above all, out of touch or not, did the suggestion warrant the response it got? Was the responses proportionate to being out of touch?

I got sick of treading on egg shells with this forum recently which is why I stopped posting. Even yesterday I was very careful when summarising some of the items from yesterday's meeting to purposely reverse the order of private and hirer in my summing up to avoid being accused of anti hire. 

"General increase in aggression from private and hire boaters."

This forum really isn't worth that much attention to detail, it takes all the enjoyment out of it. 

[Meantime]

5 minutes ago, floydraser said:

I think this post is entirely unjustified and completely wrong.

RealWindmill made a perfectly sensible suggestion. So it was in ignorance of what already happens but it was met by a rather agressive reply from someone venting their frustration. After that is the usual standard forum rubbish of deliberate mis-interpretaions and replies based on them. Same old same old. Very unfair to pick out one poster, especially by a mod.

Even more fundamental than that. I received an email notification of a reply to this thread only to find the reply was not there. I assumed therefore it had been removed by a moderator, fair dues I haven't seen it so cannot comment. However it is unfair for a moderator to then quote back part of a post that presumably only moderators can see! 

Grendels quote says 

2 hours ago, RealWindmill said

That post cannot be seen in it's entirety, only the piece that has been quoted.

[Chelsea14Ian]

Perhaps it's time this post came to an end.As I've said we seem to be going round  in circles  and some are clearly falling out and most points  have now be covered. I for one won't  comment anymore  more on this post

 

[DAVIDH]

This thread, and others like it, degenerated from interesting viewpoints, to my way or the toys will be expelled from the baby carriage. These things seem to go in cycles. I remember a year or so ago, when many people were over-excercised about stag and hen do antics. The Broads survived that, and I'm sure will go on to surmount any difficulties brought about this year by the unprecedented (in recent times) number of new visitors to boating holidays. This is not to dismiss the awful suffering of those involved with the tragedies, it's just to point out to those poster's who perceive it to be a matter of honour, that there will be something else to argue about before long. 

[RealWindmill]

4 minutes ago, EastCoastIPA said:

Even more fundamental than that. I received an email notification of a reply to this thread only to find the reply was not there. I assumed therefore it had been removed by a moderator, fair dues I haven't seen it so cannot comment. However it is unfair for a moderator to then quote back part of a post that presumably only moderators can see! 

Grendels quote says 

2 hours ago, RealWindmill said

That post cannot be seen in it's entirety, only the piece that has been quoted.

You. absolutely right ECIPA. I did say more . The Mod has selectively misquoted me bigtime.

[Vaughan]

20 minutes ago, floydraser said:

After that is the usual standard forum rubbish of deliberate mis-interpretaions and replies based on them.

Excuse me but some of that forum rubbish has helped you with the restoration of your boat, before now.

[RealWindmill]

7 minutes ago, Chelsea14Ian said:

Perhaps it's time this post came to an end.As I've said we seem to be going round  in circles  and some are clearly falling out and most points  have now be covered. I for one won't  comment anymore  more on this post

 

You're right ChelseaIan. but if it's comments are starting to bore you then please don't read. To say shut the thread is to stifle free speech. 

[Chelsea14Ian]

Thanks for the advice, will I take it let me think.No

[floydraser]

6 minutes ago, Vaughan said:

Excuse me but some of that forum rubbish has helped you with the restoration of your boat, before now.

Absolutely not. There are some quiet corners of this forum which are perfect, the restoration section being one of them. 

[Gracie]

This forum and the rubbish members have spouted over the years has helped me, entertained me and even made me cry. 

Long may it continue 

Come on peeps, keep it friendly 

 

[RealWindmill]

2 hours ago, Gracie said:

Dare I stick my hand up just to say does anyone remember years ago when the boating brochure arrived on your door mat, sitting round the table with your parents choosing a boat, booking the boat, waiting for the time to come seemed like years and when it did, pack your stuff head off to the yard and start your holiday. In all the years I have been boating with my family we have never once had a major accident nor seen anyone else have one. We had common sense, our own safety drill and it worked too

Reading things that are posted lately you would be forgiven for thinking a Broads boating holiday is and will be a nightmare. Please remember just what a beautiful, relaxing and fun time that can be had on a simple boating holiday with a little bit of common sense thrown in. I realise not everyone has common sense and there will be tragedies, that is always going to happen whether it's a boating holiday or an all expenses paid holiday abroad  (my worst nightmare) 

Take care everyone, stay safe and well x

Wise words Gracie and well said.

In reply may I say ( not directed at you but more to others ) . f things are so idyllic and rosy in Broadland why are the controlling authority ( ie. the BA ) so concerned as to initiate a big Safety campaign and try to address what they see as problems that need looking at ?

[floydraser]

We are living in different times and I mean since March. 

I was trained in management and I don't envy anyone in business or management now. I used to love it and thrive on it but I wonder how I would have coped with this pandemic? I would like to think well, I would have at least seen it as a challenge to overcome; another badge to be proud of.

But in respect of all those with years of experience, nothing will be the same and while that experience will be a serious part of the future, it will not be the rule book. The way forward is to be open to new ideas then make decisions as to how to proceed based on risk factors etc. I was trained based on other's experience but no-one has experience of a pandemic so we are all in the dark. The clever ones and the lucky risk takers will be the prifiteers from all this. Good luck to you all, I'll be on my boat while you sort it all out.

[Poppy]

40 minutes ago, floydraser said:

I think this post is entirely unjustified and completely wrong.

RealWindmill made a perfectly sensible suggestion. So it was in ignorance of what already happens but it was met by a rather agressive reply from someone venting their frustration. After that is the usual standard forum rubbish of deliberate mis-interpretaions and replies based on them. Same old same old. Very unfair to pick out one poster, especially by a mod.

Well put. It does seem that mods do 'take sides'  That shouldn't be the case. Good moderation should be almost unnoticable to anyone but the individual who needs advice.

[Poppy]

41 minutes ago, EastCoastIPA said:

Out of touch, maybe? I did suggest £500 not £250. Is that just Richardsons policy, or all hire yards? But above all, out of touch or not, did the suggestion warrant the response it got? Was the responses proportionate to being out of touch?

I got sick of treading on egg shells with this forum recently which is why I stopped posting. Even yesterday I was very careful when summarising some of the items from yesterday's meeting to purposely reverse the order of private and hirer in my summing up to avoid being accused of anti hire. 

"General increase in aggression from private and hire boaters."

This forum really isn't worth that much attention to detail, it takes all the enjoyment out of it. 

Another good post !

[marshman]

My guess, like many things in Yare House, it will all  amount to just a lot of hot air in the end

[Vaughan]

2 minutes ago, Poppy said:

Good moderation should be almost unnoticable to anyone but the individual who needs advice.

So why have the mods sat back, as they often do and allowed this very important discussion to continue virtually un-restrained for 2 or 3 days?

I call that excellent moderation.

[Poppy]

30 minutes ago, DAVIDH said:

This thread, and others like it, degenerated from interesting viewpoints, to my way or the toys will be expelled from the baby carriage. These things seem to go in cycles. I remember a year or so ago, when many people were over-excercised about stag and hen do antics. The Broads survived that, and I'm sure will go on to surmount any difficulties brought about this year by the unprecedented (in recent times) number of new visitors to boating holidays. This is not to dismiss the awful suffering of those involved with the tragedies, it's just to point out to those poster's who perceive it to be a matter of honour, that there will be something else to argue about before long. 

It has seemed over time that anything perceived to be  in the slightest bit critical of hirers or the hire boat industry attracts criticism , often aggresive in nature .

Sadly so, but those private owners and many hirers here have a huge and deep love for the Broads.

[Mouldy]

10 minutes ago, RealWindmill said:

Wise words Gracie and well said.

 f things are so idyllic and rosy in Broadland why are the controlling authority ( ie. the BA ) so concerned as to initiate a big Safety campaign and try to address what they see as problems that need looking at ?

I cannot imagine that the BA will be looking at anything as drastic as imposing rules to force holidaymakers to increase the cost of their holidays by upwards of £1000 by enforcing ‘skippered’ cruises for novices.  Killing the hire industry would have a massively negative effect on their income.  Get real - some of the large Broom boats already cost in excess of 3k a week in high season.  Can you imagine folk adding another thousand pounds plus to pay for a skipper.  You can have two weeks on a cruise ship, catered for less.

As I said earlier, some of your ideas may be sound, but ill thought out and totally unworkable in reality.  

 

[Poppy]

2 minutes ago, Vaughan said:

So why have the mods sat back, as they often do and allowed this very important discussion to continue virtually un-restrained for 2 or 3 days?

I call that excellent moderation.

Unrestrained ? Maybe. Unnoticed? What do others think ?

[Vaughan]

10 minutes ago, RealWindmill said:

f things are so idyllic and rosy in Broadland why are the controlling authority ( ie. the BA ) so concerned as to initiate a big Safety campaign and try to address what they see as problems that need looking at ?

You keep coming back to this theme of yours but you don't substantiate it.  What campaign, exactly, are you referring to, other than that which has always been the responsibility of those involved in the management of the Broads?   What are suggesting that is new, about this?

[Poppy]

2 minutes ago, Mouldy said:

I canno5 imagine that the BA will be looking at anything as drastic as imposing rules to force holidaymakers to increase the cost of their holidays by upwards of £1000 by enforcing ‘skippered’ cruises for novices.  Killing the hire industry would have a massively negative effect on their income.  Get real - some of the large Broom boats already cost in excess of 3k a week in high season.  Can you imagine folk adding another thousand pounds plus to pay for a skipper.  You can have two weeks on a cruise ship, catered for less.

As I said earlier, some of your ideas may be sound, but I’ll thought out and totally unworkable in reality.  

 

Agreed.  However, offering training ( which could, but need not lead to a bit of paper) rather more extensive than the 'tick box' exercise which suffices for many  - NOT ALL - hires would be of benefit to all.

This has been suggested on this very thread but dismissed by some as unworkable !  I know it isn't , since yacht hire yards offer it. As far as I know, none of the motor boat yards do .

[Meantime]

2 minutes ago, Mouldy said:

I cannot imagine that the BA will be looking at anything as drastic as imposing rules to force holidaymakers to increase the cost of their holidays by upwards of £1000 by enforcing ‘skippered’ cruises for novices.  Killing the hire industry would have a massively negative effect on their income.  Get real - some of the large Broom boats already cost in excess of 3k a week in high season.  Can you imagine folk adding another thousand pounds plus to pay for a skipper.  You can have two weeks on a cruise ship, catered for less.

As I said earlier, some of your ideas may be sound, but ill thought out and totally unworkable in reality.  

 

Your probably right, but they are looking at a whole host of other issues / solutions which would presumably cost less to implement, although I guess will still ultimately end up adding something to the cost of boating for us all.

Re your comments about cruise ships, I'm not sure that's an option for a while. People are talking about the staycation in terms of next year, but even today it has been suggested that Easyjet are hanging on by a thread. If and when this virus is beaten it will still take a very long while for the over seas holiday business to get back to anywhere near the levels it has seen in the last couple of decades. Permanent damage is being done to the airline and cruise ship industries that will likely take at least a decade to reverse. In the meantime I think the staycation is likely for at least another 5 or more years.

It was obvious at yesterday's BA meeting that they don't view this year's antics as a one off, but something that is likely to occur for the next few years and therefore plans need to be made now.

[DAVIDH]

1 hour ago, EastCoastIPA said:

In the meantime I think the staycation is likely for at least another 5 or more years.

All it needs for the status quo to resume is 1. A vaccine, 2.  One or two wet summers. 3. Deeply discounted airfares, such as immediately after the September 11th terrorist attack. Then you won't see most of the the new UK staycationers for dust. 

[marshman]

Any BA initiative will likely be window dressing as you would expect - well thats my guess!!