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Another Incident At Grt Yarmouth I'm Afraid.


Wussername

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4 hours ago, Cheesey69 said:

Its a bit like the on going war in London with the cyclists.

Some say, there's not much point in getting dressed up in lycra, sweating in the heat only to sit in traffic. Might as well sit in a car.

So they cut corners, jump lights and ride on paths and so on.

Some see themselves as super pedestrians with the same rights as pedestrians only faster.

So the traffic rules don't apply.

I've gone around that corner in Horning going towards the Ant,  straight into the path of a paddle boarder. Maybe keeping to the margins but so am I in order to keep away from a sailer.

Or rafted together in the middle of a river acting like a traffic island.

Or paddling along at night with no lights.

Mark my words. There is going to be a tragic accident one day and I can guarantee you the boater will get the blame.

 

I tend to ride my bike the way I sail my dinghy. i.e. power gives way to sail (pedal).

What many people who don't ride regularly or have not been on a bike for many a long year fail to realise is how stable and most importantly how maneouverable the modern bicycle is. They can stop and turn on a sixpence and what from behind a windscreen looks unsafe and reckless is in fact anything but to the skillful cyclist. Having said that they and I should most definitely be following the Rules of the Road.

Getting back to kayaks, then I may be wrong because based on my solitary preference for paddling then i do practise self preservation and keep out of the way. If as reported other kayakers are being a nuisance and causing issues then they should be brought to book for it. A case of a few giving the many a bad name.

Paddle boarders seem to be a different breed entirely ( generalisations aside ). I have seen them hog the middle and raft up as described. Definately some education needed here and perhaps an issue that the BA should and will  be addressing in their current Safety Awareness campaign.

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There is a number of issues that the BA need to address. A number of issues that we must recognise. The Norfolk Broads have changed dramatically over the last few years. Issues that need to be challanged, discussed, changed or indeed accepted.

We must have an influence, a constructive influence with regard to that change or acceptance. 

Andrew

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1 minute ago, Wussername said:

There is a number of issues that the BA need to address. A number of issues that we must recognise. The Norfolk Broads have changed dramatically over the last few years. Issues that need to be challanged, discussed, changed or indeed accepted.

We must have an influence, a constructive influence with regard to that change or acceptance. 

Andrew

True. I’m seeing situations not covered really.

paddleboard before sail?

What’s going to be the legal position in a collision?

To keep my HGV license I’ve got to do 7 hours on a bike through London. 
Gives me a different look on things. 
The BA needs a campaign to inform all water users of their responsibilities but the big selling point of kayak/paddle boards is freedom 

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Interesting points you make Wussername. But which raise interesting questions.

The Broads have changed but are essentially timelessly the same. Are you thinking commercial interests have overcome traditional pursuits ? Interested to hear what issues specifically you feel need addressing.

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34 minutes ago, JennyMorgan said:

Mention is made of two drowning, but there have also been drownings at Loddon & Norwich.

I think I have to pull you up on this, no mention at all is made of anyone drowning in that statement or the article, they are just mentioned as incidents, if you wanted to be pedantic, you could easily say someone cannot drown in a hospital bed.

since neither incident has had an official enquiry report published we should refrain from speculation over the cause of death of either of these tragic incidents until such is published.

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Okay, two deaths then, verbatim: 

In August, a woman in her 30s died after falling from a boat in Great Yarmouth and getting trapped underneath it.

On Tuesday (Sept 15th), a holidaymaker from North Yorkshire in his 20s was pulled from the River Bure and airlifted to hospital, where he died.

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We  must demonstrate the capacity to accept or tolerate delay, problems, or suffering without becoming annoyed or anxious with regard to our concerns for an immediate response or action to these dreadful incidents.

We must also be aware of any intrusion which could frustrate any future legal proceedings and the consequences which we would be held responsible not only as a community but as individuals.

Andrew

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15 minutes ago, Wussername said:

We  must demonstrate the capacity to accept or tolerate delay, problems, or suffering without becoming annoyed or anxious with regard to our concerns for an immediate response or action to these dreadful incidents.

We must also be aware of any intrusion which could frustrate any future legal proceedings and the consequences which we would be held responsible not only as a community but as individuals.

Andrew

Very true. Coincidently The Sun newspaper published gruesome details of the Yacht Station tragedy yesterday which some might regard as such an intrusion. Heaven forbid that such an incident is able to happen again.  

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On 17/09/2020 at 14:11, DAVIDH said:

 As you say, it makes you feel uneasy that a couple of novice boaters can have control of a 40+ foot boat in conditions which will be a test for them. 

Hi Virgin boater here. I've been investigating my first boating holiday for 2021.

When I go to the web sites, there are few recommendations  as to which boats are more suitable for a novice and which are not.  I have no idea which areas of the broads have stronger currents. I've no real idea how wind/tide affects the handling of a boat.

Us virgins reply on the hire 'system' and their does not seem to be much of one!

 

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Hi London Guy, yes it;s not easy to know where to start as a first-timer. You will get the most out of your holiday by doing a little research first, but it has to be said that many novice boaters don't do any pre-planning or investigation, and still come away having had a great time. 

In terms of the tides, All the rivers of the Broads eventually lead down into (Great) Yarmouth. Naturally, this is where the tide is the strongest. Leading back up the rivers from Yarmouth, the tides still run fast enough to be uncomfortable as far as Reedham and St Olaves in the south and Acle in the north. Above these points, the tide is felt less and less. The effect the tide has on your boat can best be imagined if you think of yourself on a cruiser just floating in the middle of the river. With no tide flowing, it will (more or less) stay where it is. If a tide is running, it will carry your boat with it, making it more difficult to control. When coming in to moor for instance, if you come in with, rather than against the flow of the tide, you will likely not be able to stop your boat hitting the next moored boat along, as the current will take you into it. As such, the best way to approach is against the flowing tide, so that the river is in effect, acting as a brake, pushing you back. This way, your throttle is much more in control of your forward movement. 

I have much more information for first timers on this "frequently asked questions" page on my site HERE It should go some way to misidentifying the subject!


 

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The southern  broads in the main have the strongest tides and current, and parts of the northern broads to around  Stracy .After which the tides are not as strong. Wind will have an effect  especially combined with the tides and currents .My advice to go for every big boat,and perhaps at first still on the northern broads until you gain experience. 

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As president and chief cheerleader for bathtub boats (for the unenlightened) these are great to learn on. 
less effect of the wind, level with the bank and built like a brick outhouse having a very bad day.

Agreed with the exception that they are a right royal pain in t derrière to stern moor due to lack of aft visibility.  And talking of visibility, they are certainly good for bank and reed watching

Griff

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Banks and reeds, sir?

see that’s the wooden boat speaking in you, always looking for the next tree to fell. 
As you look over the tops of those reeds watching the sugar factory move closer and further away, I’m doing a Luke skywalker down the trench of the battle star avoiding those vessels who’s masters are busily looking over the tops of things. 
as for stern mooring, I’ve trained myself a wife with a set of pipes on her to scare a drill sergeant 

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Rather than start a new topic I thought I would add here that it is reported by Hemsby Lifeboat that a man badly broke his leg today when he jumped from his boat onto the bank at St Benet’s. The air ambulance was needed to take him to the N&N hospital. 

A salutary reminder of the care needed at all times. 

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There are lots of people sticking there tuppence-worth into these debates, mostly on popular FB pages that are mostly filled with keyboard warriors who shoot from the hip with total disregard. As ever, the targets are the BA and the Boatyards. 

Let's put this into perspective. There are RTAs every day that involve serious injury and worse. The mostly occur due to human error. From an early age, we are taught over a number of years to pay proper attention on roads, whether walking, cycling, scootering, etc. These collisions still happen. People are still injured and killed. 

Inexperience counts for a lot in many accidents, as does stupidity, inattention, bravado, and a lapse of common sense. 

Last year, an boater on one of my boats jumped off a boat as he was mooring and broke his leg. He too was airlifted to hospital. As part of our handover, he was told not to jump off and he assured us he wouldn't. The chap who was older that I should have had enough life experience to know the risks, but he still jumped off and ended up in a great deal of pain for many weeks. 

That moment when you decide to step off the kerb, have a skin-full and fall in the river, jump off a boat or even get in the river to try and untangle the rope from a propeller (yes, there are people that have done this in very recent times, one fool even did it at Burgh castle last year) could be your last. Think it through. 

The boatyards and BA are not looking to kill-off their customers and, sadly, it takes some real tragedies to bring the risks into sharp focus. I have always used shock tactics in my handovers to drive the points home. Whether that's right or wrong is debatable, but when you call a propeller a "Blender for legs" it tends to instil a particular image. 

 

 

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How true it is I don't know, but apparently the yards reckon on an 80% increase on first time boaters this year, normally c30% p.a. This suggests a 50% increase over the annual norm. Staycation or the BNP lie? Whatever, give or take a percentage digit or two. Travel writers in such as the Guardian have plugged Norfolk ad nauseum this year. 

I don't know the answer, indeed does anybody? However, I do have some ideas. One being that boatyards hold lectures on boat handling in one of their boatsheds or in a marquee. These could be run on a continuous basis, on a loop so to speak, starting every half an hour. Hirers would have to be signed off before picking up their boats, a condition of hire. Something needs to be done, there is an admitted desire at Yare House to increase visitor numbers and it is inevitable that that number will include the innocently ignorant of boating issues.

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3 minutes ago, JennyMorgan said:

How true it is I don't know, but apparently the yards reckon on an 80% increase on first time boaters this year, normally c30% p.a. This suggests a 50% increase over the annual norm. Staycation or the BNP lie? Whatever, give or take a percentage digit or two. Travel writers in such as the Guardian have plugged Norfolk ad nauseum this year. 

I don't know the answer, indeed does anybody? However, I do have some ideas. One being that boatyards hold lectures on boat handling in one of their boatsheds or in a marquee. These could be run on a continuous basis, on a loop so to speak, largely using professionally produced videos, starting every half an hours or so. Hirers would have to be signed off before picking up their boats, a condition of hire. Something needs to be done, there is an admitted desire at Yare House to increase visitor numbers and it is inevitable that that number will include the innocently ignorant of boating issues.

 

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5 minutes ago, JennyMorgan said:

How true it is I don't know, but apparently the yards reckon on an 80% increase on first time boaters this year, normally c30% p.a.

That's definitely my impression. If the hire fleet had been double the size, it still wouldn't have been enough for the school holidays. Many people told me they had considered a boating holiday in the past, and under the circumstances, this seemed like the year to try it. Whether that translates to next year, will depend on how long the virus has us all by the scruff of our necks. 

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Are you quoting yourself for extra emphasis, Peter?  :default_eusa_dance:

Actually, I don't think those figures mean any more, as such, than the latest virus predictions.

If the yards (or more likely the tourist press) are saying that first timers were 30% that infers that the regulars must be 60% which hasn't happened since the late 50s.  You just can't tell how many are regulars as they change loyalty to boatyards as well as booking agents.  Some just book on line.  The only true way to tell is to ask customers to fill in a satisfaction form. That way you have their details on file.  So I know for sure that Crown Blue Line had a figure of 35% regular customers during the 90s and "naughties".  Not bad, for a company marketing all over the world!

Things like lectures, classes and film shows have been tried many times with limited if any success.

Personally I think the yards have a very solid system and tradition behind them and there is no need for extra measures. They know what they are doing and they will cope with this influx.  What next year will bring, we can have no idea.  Anyone who could predict the whims of the Great British Heaving Public would be a lot richer than any of us!

 

 

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