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Another Incident At Grt Yarmouth I'm Afraid.


Wussername

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Perhaps I was being unduly harsh. Yes, with young children and dogs I can see how panic can set in. This happens every week, and it shouldn't. Perhaps there needs to be better signage on the posts somehow. I just don't understand how something so simple, can cause such problems.

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12 minutes ago, Regulo said:

Perhaps there needs to be better signage on the posts somehow. I just don't understand how something so simple, can cause such problems.

It might have helped if they were crossing Breydon on the low tide as advised, and not on the high, as they must have been or they wouldn't have found themselves high and dry.

Those photos are also a good example of how much rise and fall there actually is, on Breydon!

 

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15 minutes ago, Regulo said:

Perhaps I was being unduly harsh. Yes, with young children and dogs I can see how panic can set in. This happens every week, and it shouldn't. Perhaps there needs to be better signage on the posts somehow. I just don't understand how something so simple, can cause such problems.

No reason for panic. They should have gently been told that their position presented no danger and what to do as the tide came back  .  So they couldn't make the pub for the evening  - tough !

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8 minutes ago, OldBerkshireBoy said:

Been reading about call-outs and the use of the helicopter, now considering the costs of air time with these things why do people with broken legs need taking to hospital by air whilst Ian went by road after a blow to the head? 

Only the medics would know that but loss of arterial flow can result in an amputation.

Fred

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8 minutes ago, OldBerkshireBoy said:

Been reading about call-outs and the use of the helicopter, now considering the costs of air time with these things why do people with broken legs need taking to hospital by air whilst Ian went by road after a blow to the head? 

There was some chat on FB about the broken leg incident earlier.  I queried why it had made the EDP when people break bones every day of the week and apparently the break was sufficiently bad to warrant the injured party to be put into an induced coma at the scene. 

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Some may remember my making a glib comment about an incident recently, later to find that the incident included  a fatality. Ok, so now I'm a bit more hesitant before making such comments. It occurs to me that this is a similar case. There are so many things we don't know! Was the incident more serious than it appeared? Was the air ambulance used as an exercise? Can I think of a really sarcastic comment I can make about the stranded boat?   ... Oh hang on a minute, scratch that last one.

As the immortal Patrick Moore (1923-2012) used to say,   "We just don't know."

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That children were involved was cause enough for an airlift. That they grounded at what appears to have been pretty near the top of the side suggests that for the tide to go right down and then back up again would have been many hours later. A lot to ask of both children and dogs. Okay for us adults, time to read a book and swallow a few bevvies, easy! 

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Thinking about this further, most of these groundings seem to have occurred as boats approach Breydon from the Waveney. I can almost guarantee to see scour marks in the mud every time I come through, where boats have had a "near thing" with the mud. Perhaps on that approach, direction arrows could be called for?

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Some years ago I was sailing across Breydon with the intention of hitting the change at the Yacht Station. The mudflats were still covered as we set off. Coming the other way was a convoy of cruisers, suddenly the lead cruiser veered left, heading for the South shore and the rest blindly followed and continued following as one by one they all ran aground. Clearly they thought that we had got it wrong, despite the fact that we were sailing rather than aground,  the tail enders were waving frantically to us, enthusiastically indicating that we should follow them. We always have binoculars handy when we cross Breydon, so much to see, this time it looked like a large school group. School teachers aren't idiots, are they? Presumably they thought that they were turning into the Waveney. Even intelligent people can get it wrong

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15 hours ago, Regulo said:

Another dose of hyperbole. No, it won't capsize. No, there was no danger to life. No, there was no need for a rescue helicopter. Just wait for the next tide. And if you can't understand "Keep the green posts one side and the red posts the other", then you shouldn't be in charge of a boat. Tin hat on. :default_gbxhmm:

I don't agree with this analysis. Although unusual, it is quite possible for a flooding tide to seek though vents, unsealed rubbing strake fixings and other downflooding points.  These cruisers aren't specifically designed to sit on dry moorings and float on the next tide. I've had one sink in a slipway when a particularly low tide sat her on the bottom and the water rise wasn't enough to float the stern before entering a  downflooding point. I know it's rare, but it can happen. 

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Don’t overlook the tide tables. 
you go on holiday, want to go south and you find out low tides are when it’s nearly dark or late or early. 
or simply don’t think about the return until you have too

then you worry about time and mooring 

wide open water, not really sure about estuary tides or your keel depth

could cut corners save time.....

who apart from us, takes tide into consideration when booking hols?

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15 hours ago, Cheesey69 said:

I’ll keep saying this, water is a killer with a gentle face but it’s still a killer.

The air is a killer (aviation), the roads are a killer & sitting on a horse is a killer.

Its worth reading "Accidents Happen" by Ann Welch (1978 - sadly out of print)

The introduction starts off:  Why do light aeroplane pilots fly into clouds stuffed with mountains?
What causes ballonists to sever high-voltage power cables?
How has a yachtsman had his bowsprit run over by a train?

and ends:  ACCIDENTS HAPPEN is essential reading for all those concerned with
safety in sport and is absorbing to read because of the realisation that 'There but
for the grace of God go I'.

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33 minutes ago, FreedomBoatingHols said:

Would you do it at Burgh Castle like one HW hirer did last year? 

Would consider it, at slack water, depending on water temperature. In all probability I would sidle up to those nice people in the nearby boatyard and ask for help. Firstly turning the shaft by hand from inside the boat would hopefully work though!

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46 minutes ago, FreedomBoatingHols said:

I don't agree with this analysis. Although unusual, it is quite possible for a flooding tide to seek though vents, unsealed rubbing strake fixings and other downflooding points. 

See? That's why I don't have a boatyard. All mine would sink!! I have to say, I didn't think about the re-floating, I was more thinking of the way it was reported. As if there was immediate danger to life. All that had to be said was, "A cruiser ran aground on Breydon water, the crew were taken off to await their craft being re-floated". I suppose a helicopter winching deserves a bit more, though!

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1 hour ago, JennyMorgan said:

Would consider it, at slack water, depending on water temperature.

I prefer water where I can see more than a foot in front of my face!

A bit like alcohol - never drink anything you can't see through.  It's a good principle, when you think about it.

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If these occurrences keep happening , it is only a short step for hire yards to ban Braydon crossings .

How difficult is it for the hirer to understand the two very simple instructions that are always given verbally and in writing , ie only cross in the period one hour either side of slack low water and keep in the navigation channel between the marker posts , even my three year old grandson knows to watch for the yellow post for the turn on Barton Broad to tell me “you can turn now Grandad”.

Perhaps with the opening of WRC on the South , those wishing to cruise these waters would be best advised to hire from a Southern Yard ?

Yes I know that thousands of hire boats cross Braydon every year safely and these occurrences are not that common , but holiday makers concern about the crossing is an often opening thread for new members , a holiday should be relaxing remove the stress and spend your week either South or North , there is plenty to fill a week either side .

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My guess is that with the recent incidents on the Lower Bure there is more of a focus on safety and erring on the side of caution. Whilst being stuck on the mud on Breydon is in a different league to the other incidents the authorities cannot afford to take chances.

A serious question which I don't know the answer to, but has there ever been a fatality on Breydon as a result of a boat being stuck on the mud and then refloating? 

Last Saturday on returning South there was a hire boat stuck on the mud, it had gone aground recently as there was still a reasonable quantity of water at the rear. No mud weight was down and the engine was still running, although for how long until the alarm went off I don't know. Surely there should be at the front of the manual a page on crossing Breydon and what to do if you do happen to get stuck. Put the mud weight down and turn the engine off seem like the basics surely.

Given that we were crossing mid tide we estimated that they had three hours to low water and therefore at least another three hours plus to get refloated which would have been somewhere around 9pm or after dark. With no mud weight down and the wind direction they would only get blown further on the mud as they started to refloat. 

We moored at St Olaves Saturday night and saw them go past in the morning so assume they were pulled off later that evening and deposited at Burgh Castle moorings for the night.

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Perhaps a better option would be for an escorted service across Breydon, whereby half way through slack the escort boat could escort a convoy of hire boats from North to South, whilst a similar boat performed the service the other way around. this could be run similarly to the bridge pilots at wroxham or Potter Heigham, and while it would not be compulsory, could be factored into charges if someone ran aground, ie well since you decided against boatyard advice and did not use the service, then ran aground, we will charge you for your recovery, this would also maybe provide a tow service for yachts without engines wanting to pass through - in a similar way to the come along in Arthur Ransomes Coot club.

organised by the hire boat companies it could provide seasonal employment for several people, and a valuable service for those hirers new to the broads and uncertain about crossing Breydon.

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