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I took my daughter in law for her jab today, she is NHS staff but is shielding.

It was a 75 mile round trip as it was the other side of Kent, she could have refused and waited a few weeks to have it locally but decided it was better to get it done as she is very high risk of dying if she contracted the virus. Two young children also swayed her decision.

 The whole programme appears to be rolling out quite well, it will be good to see the number of vaccinations rising as the infrastructure comes together.

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I am really struggling to understand why people are having problems understanding what they should be doing. If you don't need to go out, then don't. if you are going shopping, stay as local as y

For Your Gods Sake. This thing is killing people, hopefully not yours! Stop trying to find ways round the rules and try to find ways YOU can help to improve survival rates for ALL. So y

My wife is also nurse on a covid ward at Basildon hospital here in essex, they are currently losing on average 3 patients a day on her ward alone. She despairs at the general publics attitude towards

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I will probably get a day out to the Excel Centre!!

You have my sympathy

Heard on the News today that HMG is now aiming for 2 million vaccinated per week - Wow that's some target, lets hope they achieve it.

You watch, if they fall even one short in any given week the critics will be down on them like a ton of bricks.  At least they are setting goals to aim for and seem to be trying

Griff

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On 10/01/2021 at 20:01, Meantime said:

Your already right! People might think I'm wrong for driving a short distance to take a walk, but actually the real problem is that this lockdown is not as restrictive as the first, when it needs to be more restrictive and I don't mean on going for a walk.

40-60% children in school still even though it is only meant to be for key workers.

Churches still allowed communal worship.

Celebrities still travelling out of the country on holiday. Actually no bad thing, just don't let them back in, negative test or not till this is over.

Nurseries still allowed to open for all, not just the children of key workers.

Garden centres open this time around.

More non essential stores allowed to offer click and collect this time around.

Cleaners still allowed to come round and clean your house.

National Trust and other botanical destination gardens allowed to open.

Fishing allowed this time around. Still don't really see that as exercise.

And then you have the divide that is being allowed.

Bollywood actress allowed to have her hair done because it is for a film part. 

Elite sport allowed to continue, even though some showed total disregard for their elite status when it came to holding new year parties. 

Continuing drama, The Voice, The Masked Singer and other such TV programs being allowed to continue filming this time around. Even with social distancing the number of crew and backroom staff needed to film these shows must be significant.

The ramifications of those who can afford to keep their children out of school compared to those who cannot afford to, even if they'd like to. 

The message might be stay at home, but where it really counts, where the face to face transmission is happening, the law, or the guidance, or the rules whatever you want to call it, is not supporting it.

 

Excellent post.     I certainly agree with  " Celebrities still travelling out of the country on holiday. Actually no bad thing, just don't let them back in, negative test or not till this is over."      It gets me that they are just carrying on as per normal.   I mean Ms  Collins I thought she lived in France, now conveniently she is over here.     This lockdown should have been as draconian as the March lockdown , then we may have had a chance of getting over it.    

 

 

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It was interesting to hear Chris Whitty say yesterday that you could tinker with the lockdown but it wouldn’t make that much difference. All it needs is for everyone to keep to the rules. 

I heard a radio presenter this morning talk about his intention to go to the supermarket today for one item. Allowed but not what I would call sensible or in the spirit of the guidance. 

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I feel sorry for those working at St Thomas hospital. They are treated with some mindless idiots who,think Covid is fake.I think now is the time to get tough. Thankfully  most people  are sticking  to the rules but,its spoilt by the few.

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I see that Morrisons and Sainsburys have announced they are going to be challenging people for not wearing a mask unless they have a medical exemption. Whilst that is good news, I would like to see them actively reintroducing the 2m spacing rules and reducing the numbers of people allowed in the store at busy times. Most of the supermarkets are still open longer hours than they were previously. It's not like people can go out anywhere for recreation, so there is no excuse for not shopping later in the evening to find a quieter time, or earlier in the morning.

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2 minutes ago, chameleon said:

if you are exempt you can still wear a full face shield, no excuses

Something I was a proponent of way back in the first lockdown. Too be honest with the way the virus is circulating, those who genuinely cannot wear a face mask are probably most at risk from the virus anyway and should either be shielding or making other arrangements via friends and family or online shopping. There should be very few reasons to see someone not wearing a mask now.

I'd be inclined to go as far as say that masks should be worn in any queue outdoors. We now have mass asymptomatic testing in our area, but I query the wisdom of standing in a long queue putting yourself at risk of picking up the virus if you are already taking precautions to minimise contact with others. Asymptomatic testing should be reserved for workers who cannot work from home and educational facilities once they reopen. 

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20 hours ago, floydraser said:

No politician anywhere in the World was, or could have been expected to be, prepared to handle a pandemic.

 

13 hours ago, Ray said:

Perspective needed: Politicians were all in place in 2016 and cygnus only involved a few of them. Even now, any politician could resign saying they don't want the responsibility. 

I think history will and should rightly show that the effects of this pandemic have been made worse more by ordinary people, not those in authority.

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2 minutes ago, Meantime said:

Who all stuck to the rules! :default_eusa_naughty:

Unfortunately, there are at least 3 households in our cul-de-sac that have flounted the guidance/rules a lot more than Dominic Cummings. I'm sure the same is so nationwide.

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15 minutes ago, floydraser said:

Perspective needed

 

17 minutes ago, floydraser said:

No politician anywhere in the World was, or could have been expected to be, prepared to handle a pandemic.

It was a huge multi agency exercise with the express purpose of learning how to deal with a pandemic and being prepared for one. That is the perspective!

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17 minutes ago, Ray said:

 

It was a huge multi agency exercise with the express purpose of learning how to deal with a pandemic and being prepared for one. That is the perspective!

There were lessons that HMG should perhaps have learnt, but the same goes for any of the other involved agencies. I'm in awe of the way that the vast majority of front-line health care workers have performed, but (whilst this may make me something of a pariah for daring to question the NHS) the NHS administrators should also have learnt from Cygnus, as no doubt others should have too.

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28 minutes ago, floydraser said:

Unfortunately, there are at least 3 households in our cul-de-sac that have flounted the guidance/rules a lot more than Dominic Cummings. I'm sure the same is so nationwide.

Yes the same is true around here including the mum that drops her two toddlers off to the nursery so that she can then entertain her friends for coffee morning.

I checked today and the short drive I took from my house to the car park I used to access the country park at the weekend was 3.5 miles. Approximately half the distance between Downing Street and The Olympic Park. I also minimised contact by not taking a personal trainer or four bodyguards. :default_norty: 

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It's all very well being wise after the event! Yours truly has lived through and survived previous flu pandemics whilst our forefathers also endured the pandemic following the First World War. It doesn't take much thought to realize that pandemics are inevitable. Perhaps we were ill prepared for this one. So yes, as a supposedly civilised country we should have had a plan, been better prepared, had suitable legislation in hand.

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1 minute ago, JennyMorgan said:

So yes, as a supposedly civilised country we should have had a plan, been better prepared, had suitable legislation in hand.

And there's the thing... We did! But it was ignored!

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21 minutes ago, Ray said:

And there's the thing... We did! But it was ignored!

I'm well aware that we are prepared for many contingencies, like nuclear attacks and missile strikes, but if we were so prepared for this latest pandemic then why are new laws being written and passed by Parliament?   

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1 minute ago, JennyMorgan said:

I'm well aware that we are prepared for many contingencies, like nuclear attacks, but if we were so prepared for this latest pandemic then why are new laws being written and passed by Parliament?   

Because the plan was ignored.

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6 minutes ago, JennyMorgan said:

I'm well aware that we are prepared for many contingencies, like nuclear attacks and missile strikes, but if we were so prepared for this latest pandemic then why are new laws being written and passed by Parliament?   

I think it's fair to say that there are very few if any countries that were well prepared for this pandemic. Generally speaking those that have been successful at getting it under control quickly are those countries where civil liberties are largely ignored. It appears we really cannot have our cake and eat it.

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Back in the 70's i worked for the home office for a short while, they had stores all around the country userly aircraft hangers stuffed full of every thing you could imageion from eye baths, bandages hypodermic needles to sand bags hammers nails sterupe pumps, along with in Subrory a hanger of fire engines not called green goddesses then just Bed ford 4x4 or 2x4 pumps,  hoses portable pumps these were periodically inspected and if not up to spec sold of and replaced, all held for a emergency you would be amazed what the government does for your safty behind the seans,Perhaps it would be a good thing if we had shadow factorys that made face masks, shields etc but had a reserve capacity to double or quadruple production when needed over night we would then not need to rely on other country's John

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13 minutes ago, annv said:

Back in the 70's i worked for the home office for a short while, they had stores all around the country userly aircraft hangers stuffed full of every thing you could imageion from eye baths, bandages hypodermic needles to sand bags hammers nails sterupe pumps, along with in Subrory a hanger of fire engines not called green goddesses then just Bed ford 4x4 or 2x4 pumps,  hoses portable pumps these were periodically inspected and if not up to spec sold of and replaced, all held for a emergency you would be amazed what the government does for your safty behind the seans,Perhaps it would be a good thing if we had shadow factorys that made face masks, shields etc but had a reserve capacity to double or quadruple production when needed over night we would then not need to rely on other country's John

Under a certain large airport nearer to me than the Broads I heard. The rumour was that it was in case we lost the last war but it's amazing how logic and facts can be twisted to make a good story. :default_gbxhmm::default_biggrin:

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so there was an exercise, for a different (but similar )pandemic, lessons were learned, filed away and those in the positions of influence at the time moved on, now in come a new batch of administrators, who were not around at the time looking for areas to make cuts, they ask questions, why do we do this, why do we have such large reserves of that, and either they ignore those that were involved in the original operation, or those people now are in different roles, so cuts are made, on the surface perfectly reasonable ones. until one day a pandemic comes along, its not quite the same as the exercise, so there are differences, cuts have been made, staff have changed, suppliers have changed and are no longer aware of why the order levels were as they were, so we are not as prepared as we were. this could be the situation 4 years after the exercise, or 20 years after the exercise, my reasoning here is just theoretical, I doubt we will ever know what actually happened. 

No point in belabouring lost opportunity, its history, the tools we have to work with are those that are in our hands right now, and those tools we can make going forward. and the actions we take to stay safe.

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The reality is there are contingency plans for everything from plague to meteor strikes,  including every imaginable risk between. 

It would be impossible to be prepared for every eventuality and hold appropriate stocks and prepare detailed laws for all of them. 

How much stock of perishable items should be held,  do we hold Noddy suits or digging equipment,  how many rubber gloves and body bags,  it may never be enough but they will perish. 

Do we stock up ventilators or dialysis machines. 

I don't see any country that was over prepared. At least we had a bit of everything with a plan to get more. 

Of all the abilities needed,  20/20 hindsight would be the most useful as it is used more often than logic and reason. 

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true, it would be similar in a way to the fact that everyone was issued gas masks in WW2, that had to be carried at all times, yet that was a precaution set up for the conditions in WW1, I believe very few gas attacks were actually carried out against civilians in ww2, in hindsight we could easily say, look at all that wasted production of unnecessary gas masks for every member of the population.

They were prepared, but prepared for the wrong thing.

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A Premier League footballer broke the lockdown rules on New Year's Eve by having a party at his home with more than the allowed amount of people plus he had some "models" from an agency at the party.

His manager/coach (or whatever you call them these days) defended him in the press - his reason being that other people will have been doing the same. This was after the player had also previously breached the rules last summer.

A few days after New Year he did it again flying a woman in from Greece for four days for a "romp".

All this on top of his being caught speeding four times last year _ he obviously has no regard for the rules/laws of this country.

For a leading coach to defend such behaviour is in itself disgusting, especially as a large proportion of fans are in the age group who are disregarding a lot of the rules anyway. He should be setting a better example.

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