Safety Certificate

[ginbottle]

Hi

surely there must be a topic on this, but I can’t find it!

 I recently bought a small Dory boat and am having trouble getting a river toll for it out of the Broads Authority, as they say it needs a safety certificate?!! It has a steering wheel and electric start. They have asked for a photo of it, which we sent, but honestly??🙄😡please can anyone else tell me if they have been required to have a safety certificate for their Dory? There’s nothing to the boat! 

[Smoggy]

Open boat with no gas and only the outboard wiring surely is exempt from BSS.

[Vaughan]

Maybe that's why they asked for a photo. Have you had a reply yet?

[Regulo]

"The National Boat Safety Scheme (BSS) applies to all boats with engines and/or cooking, heating, lighting, refrigeration and other domestic appliances, including open boats propelled by outboard motors with fixed electrical systems such as electric starts. It does not apply to open boats propelled solely by outboard motors and not fitted with any of the above appliances/systems."

From the BA website. Bit ambiguous, but I think it's because of the fixed wiring?

[TheQ]

16 minutes ago, ginbottle said:

Hi

surely there must be a topic on this, but I can’t find it!

 I recently bought a small Dory boat and am having trouble getting a river toll for it out of the Broads Authority, as they say it needs a safety certificate?!! It has a steering wheel and electric start. They have asked for a photo of it, which we sent, but honestly??🙄😡please can anyone else tell me if they have been required to have a safety certificate for their Dory? There’s nothing to the boat! 

OOh beaten to it by Regulo 

From their own site..

 "The National Boat Safety Scheme (BSS) applies to all boats with engines and/or cooking, heating, lighting, refrigeration and other domestic appliances, including open boats propelled by outboard motors with fixed electrical systems such as electric starts. It does not apply to open boats propelled solely by outboard motors and not fitted with any of the above appliances/systems."

Me thinks someone at the ivory tower has made a mistake..

[ginbottle]

That’s what I would have thought, Smoggy! No reply yet, Vaughan!

oh, no! Regulo and The Q! 😡maybe I should have stuck with my rowing boat! They will probably say oars could be dangerous! Sorry, just feeling the world is against me right now!😢

[ginbottle]

It doesn’t have a cooking appliance! There is no gas on board and no sleeping accommodation! 😡☹️

[Vaughan]

But you said it does have electric start . . . 

[Woodie]

Recently looked into this before I brought a boat on holiday to the Broads in August. Ended up bringing small RIB with self contained outboard for this reason.

As I understand stand it a self contained outboard ie pull start, tiller control and no battery, is exempt.

If engine is electric start with battery or has a wiring loom to a switch at a helm position then bss required. 
 

It seems the BA take on it is as soon as battery or wiring loom is involved, they want a bss,

However, my local boatyard thinks that’s wrong, and if the only wiring or fuel tank is factory made and fitted for that specific engine then it is exempt. They are going to ask the examiner they use next time he’s there.

Hope there right, means I can bring a comfier boat, and possibly the BA are wrong......

 

 

 

[marshman]

But does it not have a fixed electrical system in the electric start and if the battery is in the boat....????

[Vaughan]

All the same, it is a petrol engine with a portable fuel tank and loose pipework in the boat. Mix that with a starter wiring loom and I would have thought that's a very good reason for a safety certificate!

[Sam]

I have just sent the following enquiry to the Broads Authority. I will let you know their response.

[marshman]

You do not need a BSC for an electric outboard - but thats not what the original question was about. Its the electric start that could be the issue!

[Woodie]

MM and Vaughan, you are both correct in that even if the wiring is a manufacturers specific self contained loom for the engine, then a bss is probably for the best on many levels!

[floydraser]

2 hours ago, ginbottle said:

 

surely there must be a topic on this, but I can’t find it!

Yep, it's in Technical Questions and Answers and it's titled "Boat Safety Certificate Renewal" or something close. I started it but it wouldn't cover your problem I don't think.

I have just had the Denham Owl's done but I'm waiting for the final bill before I post a conclusion to that thread.

However I can sort of back up Vaughan's comment regarding the outboard etc: the examiner checked the fuel system for leaks, filters and taps so the BA may be concerned about a separate fuel tank and may want the photo to see if that's the case? Any wiring may also be a concern, I had a fuse box which had lost it's cover and this was a fail. 

[Smoggy]

A portable fuel tank doesn't come in to the bss as I recall, only fixed tanks.

[Sam]

This is the BA’s reply 

 

The Boat Safety Scheme (BSS) will be relevant to your boat if it has any built-in wiring (or for larger boats, things such as gas systems, enclosed cabin, lighting, heating etc.) or fixed battery.

[floydraser]

52 minutes ago, Sam said:

This is the BA’s reply 

 

The Boat Safety Scheme (BSS) will be relevant to your boat if it has any built-in wiring (or for larger boats, things such as gas systems, enclosed cabin, lighting, heating etc.) or fixed battery.

Sorry for the aside but did they answer the bit about paying a toll for the tender? 

[MauriceMynah]

I understand that the Canal & River Trust rules state that if a tender is in the same pound as the mother craft, the toll for the mother craft covers the tender. This is not the case with the Broads authority. The tender needs to have a toll in it's own right. I'm pretty sure that's the case.

[Smoggy]

Toll wise the answer is yes you will need to pay a toll but if you only use it a few times it would be cheaper to get a visitor toll each time upto a max number of times (which I forgot), it doesn't need a toll when not in the water, I have never been hassled for an untolled dinghy hanging on the back of my boat, they only care when it's got it's bum wet.

I'm also fairly sure a small electric outboard would be considered unpowered.

[Regulo]

Electric outboards get a 30% discount off the petrol outboard rate (unless it's recently changed).

[ginbottle]

This just goes to show how ridiculous the whole thing is...

we heard from the BA that yes, we do need a safety certificate, but in the meantime, we can buy a short term toll for the boat!! 
so they are not saying we can’t use the boat as it might not be safe, they are trying to get even more money out of us! As it is, the toll, which is full price for a year, only lasts until the end of March, when all tolls have to be renewed! Added to this, the fact that for the first few months of lockdown, we were not permitted to use our boats on the river, despite being tolled! I will just not use the boat until the safety certificate is in place and I have paid a toll. I am not going to pay them any more than that! 

[ginbottle]

Oh my goodness, Floydraser! Thanks for those tips!😱

[floydraser]

35 minutes ago, ginbottle said:

This just goes to show how ridiculous the whole thing is...

we heard from the BA that yes, we do need a safety certificate, but in the meantime, we can buy a short term toll for the boat!! 
so they are not saying we can’t use the boat as it might not be safe, they are trying to get even more money out of us! As it is, the toll, which is full price for a year, only lasts until the end of March, when all tolls have to be renewed! Added to this, the fact that for the first few months of lockdown, we were not permitted to use our boats on the river, despite being tolled! I will just not use the boat until the safety certificate is in place and I have paid a toll. I am not going to pay them any more than that! 

Yep, that sounds like you can have a short term toll then once it runs out, you won't need the BSS. Bit silly that.

BTW the BA don't get any money from the BSS; you pay the examiner who has to be certified/qualified, for which he has to pay. I'm not saying it's fair or not overpriced, it's just not the BA which gains financially. 

[Smoggy]

Tie it alongside another boat needing bss and negotiate a cheap ticket for both as there's no extra travelling and only about 2 minutes of extra time needed, the examiner will probably say you don't need it.