The Future Of Broads Sailing??

[JennyMorgan]

On the Broads we have both heritage and tradition in our sailing but despite that we also have brave souls who turn their back on all that and resolutely push the boundaries. Only on the Broads will you regularly see 100 year old boats competing against modern, state of the art creations. Mind you, will these modern boats boats be around in one hundred years? Maybe not, they are simply steps on the development ladder so to speak, towards 'better' boats. With the twists and turns that are so characteristic of the Broads there can be no doubt that sailing efficiency is important, but how far will offshore influence go in determining how Broads sailing boats progress? Granted that the Broads, in practical terms, will perhaps keep a cap on the extremes, or will it? Ten years ago no one would have envisaged 80' tall, carbon masts. Whilst a 50 m.p.h. sailing cruiser is perfectly feasible it would undoubtedly be entirely impractical, but modern development sailing cruisers are rarely designed for cruising! Now, take a peep at the developments within the America's Cup, I wonder how much of this will filter through to the next generation of Broads sailing boats? We already see foiled sailing dinghies on the Broads, and very exciting they are too! At the moment there are no speed limits on Broads sailing boats, yet. Marvel at the following video, Wroxham or Oulton Broad in a few years time perhaps. Who knows what will be sliding out of a Broads boatshed in years to come?

 

[ChrisB]

lest We Forget:-

Tim Whelpton's Crossbow II, built for Sir Timothy Colman at his Upton Yard.

I am pretty sure she held the record for about 5 years at 36 knots ( about 41 mph ).

These were the days of the drawing board and lofting before CAD optimisation of line and NC production methods. No Kevlar sails and advanced polymers.

Quite a feat!

[Vaughan]

Fascinating technology.

All I can say is that traditionally, the America's Cup has always been raced in inshore sheltered waters, such as The Solent, or in Chesapeake Bay.  There was no pretence at all that the old J Class could sail in any kind of seaway or groundswell and they usually crossed the Atlantic under a very reduced rig, or as deck cargo on a ship!  So at least they are keeping to that tradition.

Broads River Cruisers are also "flat water" boats, which will not take waves easily.  This means that the racing boats have always been over canvassed, going right back to the original rigs of Maidie, and Ladybird.  There is considerable evidence that these boats, built in the 30s were very much designed as a mini "J Class".

River Cruisers are also designed to pass under Broads bridges and must be capable of living on board, when cruising.  I am sure the class will always want to keep those traditions as well.

As to 50MPH on Oulton Broad, that is not new either!  My old friend Tom Percival used to lap the course there in a powerboat race at 125MPH.  But the course was closed to the navigation of course.  Does this technology mean that sailing races will now require a similar closure to other traffic?

 

[JennyMorgan]

17 minutes ago, Vaughan said:

River Cruisers are also designed to pass under Broads bridges and must be capable of living on board, when cruising.  I am sure the class will always want to keep those traditions as well.

As to 50MPH on Oulton Broad, that is not new either!  My old friend Tom Percival used to lap the course there in a powerboat race at 125MPH.  But the course was closed to the navigation of course.  Does this technology mean that sailing races will now require a similar closure to other traffic?

Re passing under bridges, perhaps not so much a problem in itself but with the mast down we now have one RCC that is effectively over ninety feet long passing through Gt Yarmouth! 

Re closing the navigation whilst sailing boats race, heaven forbid! That possibility has been mooted by one particular CEO but it was not widely supported, unsurprisingly.

I have long held the belief that there should be a 'sports Broad' for such activities, that was not a part of the navigation thus could be reserved for sole use activities. A national water sports centre on the lines of Holme Pierrepont Country Park perhaps. Don't see it happening but it could have been good.  

[JennyMorgan]

52 minutes ago, ChrisB said:

I am pretty sure she held the record for about 5 years at 36 knots ( about 41 mph ).

https://www.sailing.org/news/6418.php#.X8y6l9j7SM8

Perhaps Tim Whelpton should have put both a cabin and a tabernacle on Crossbow! 

[Vaughan]

14 minutes ago, JennyMorgan said:

Perhaps Tim Whelpton should have put both a cabin and a tabernacle on Crossbow! 

Worth remembering that the record was sailed in protected sheltered waters, inside Portland Naval Base, in Dorset.

The mast from Crossbow was used to re-rig Ladybird after she was dismasted in a Cruiser race on Wroxham Broad, and was thus the original of the "big rigs" that we now see on certain Broads racers.

[Vaughan]

4 hours ago, JennyMorgan said:

A national water sports centre on the lines of Holme Pierrepont Country Park perhaps. Don't see it happening but it could have been good. 

Perhaps if Mr Colman had decided to cart away even more of the Yare valley for gravel extraction, it could have been done at Whitlingham.

Sorry, couldn't resist that . . . .  

[Turnoar]

6 hours ago, JennyMorgan said:

I have long held the belief that there should be a 'sports Broad' for such activities, that was not a part of the navigation thus could be reserved for sole use activities. A national water sports centre on the lines of Holme Pierrepont Country Park perhaps. Don't see it happening but it could have been good.  

What’s to stop a bunch of river cruisers trailing an excursion to Rutland, bit like punts at Aldeburgh?

[JennyMorgan]

55 minutes ago, Turnoar said:

What’s to stop a bunch of river cruisers trailing an excursion to Rutland, bit like punts at Aldeburgh?

A bunch of BODs went to America the other year! Anything is possible. 

[MauriceMynah]

What about the "Trinity broads" ?

[JennyMorgan]

40 minutes ago, MauriceMynah said:

What about the "Trinity broads" ?

Strange that you ask that! Whilst on the Nav Com I asked that very question. 

Seems that the Trinity Broads are owned by a water company and they supply drinking water to Gt Yarmouth. The good folk of Yarmouth understandably don't appreciate water tasting of processed Adnams or Red-X impregnated exhaust residue.

[JennyMorgan]

6 hours ago, Vaughan said:

Perhaps if Mr Colman had decided to cart away even more of the Yare valley for gravel extraction, it could have been done at Whitlingham.

I think it safe to suggest that very many people thought that being a sports/spectator venue was one of the justifications for Whitlingham. Dragon Boats raced there for a while but for whatever reasons they eventually returned to Oulton Broad. 

[MauriceMynah]

1 hour ago, JennyMorgan said:

Strange that you ask that! Whilst on the Nav Com I asked that very question. 

Seems that the Trinity Broads are owned by a water company and they supply drinking water to Gt Yarmouth. The good folk of Yarmouth understandably don't appreciate water tasting of processed Adnams or Red-X impregnated exhaust residue.

Ok, that explains why they should get rid of the fishermen, but my question remains!

[ChrisB]

The Trinities were bought by Essex and Suffolk Water in the mid-nineties and are managed in partnership with the Broads Authority, English Nature and the Environment Agency. Rollesby Sailing Club are a year round club and there are good fishing facilities with an emphasis on the disabled. One of the Broads hosts regular model boating but like the the full scale set-up no combustion engines. There used to be rowing boats for hire but not sure on that one now and the café that opened was very pleasant but I have not been for a long while. We would have lunch there having had the car seviced in Yarmouth.

[ChrisB]

When we used to look out over Rollesby I often thought what a great spot for sailing away from the madness that can be The Bure in high summer.

 

[TheQ]

The problem for most of the foiled craft is there is not enough room, small dinghies like the 12ft international Moth, maybe on a big broad, though can you imagine what happens when the T foils hit the mud on the bottom....

As for a broads cruiser, the class rules requiring cabin, berths , matresses, fore and aft bench seating, tabernacle, forehatch. All will make a broads cruiser too heavy even if totally built of carbon Fibre..

Should you be able to make the impossible, then you'd reach the end of each tack on the broad so quickly, you'd rarely be able to stay "flying". Such broads cruisers certainly would be impossible to use on rivers, the extra width would mean continuously tacking, and just how would you tie up against a quay heading?. A passing motor cruiser not seeing the underwater , excrescences would just destroy them.. as would the shallows of the river bank..

[JennyMorgan]

A foiling Moth famously collided with a mooring buoy on Oulton Broad! That was quite spectacular!

Re river cruisers, being able to shoot Potter Heigham Bridge should perhaps be a class requirement!

[ChrisB]

15 minutes ago, JennyMorgan said:

A foiling Moth famously collided with a mooring buoy on Oulton Broad! That was quite spectacular!

Re river cruisers, being able to shoot Potter Heigham Bridge should perhaps be a class requirement!

What is needed is a class developed along the lines of a Kite Surfer. Olly Bridge cleared Dawlish Warren Spit with an incredible 200m jump, so you go over Potter not through it.

I suppose there being two bridges so close together is the problem!

Now if you scaled up this Rib in order to provide overnight accommodation you would have Broads access licked and an excellent view over the reeds.

 

[TheQ]

25 minutes ago, ChrisB said:

What is needed is a class developed along the lines of a Kite Surfer. Olly Bridge cleared Dawlish Warren Spit with an incredible 200m jump, so you go over Potter not through it.

I suppose there being two bridges so close together is the problem!

Now if you scaled up this Rib in order to provide overnight accommodation you would have Broads access licked and an excellent view over the reeds.

 

but you'd have to acheive lift off at 4mph..

[JennyMorgan]

3 hours ago, TheQ said:

but you'd have to acheive lift off at 4mph..

Lift off when a ranger is within 1/4 mile thus no need for a license. Once off the water you'd be outside the BA jurisdiction. 

Ranger ahead warnings could be issued on CB & VHF. Now, that is a thought . . . . . . . . shades of Smokey & the Bandit, Norfolk Broads style!!

[OldBerkshireBoy]

17 hours ago, JennyMorgan said:

Strange that you ask that! Whilst on the Nav Com I asked that very question. 

Seems that the Trinity Broads are owned by a water company and they supply drinking water to Gt Yarmouth. The good folk of Yarmouth understandably don't appreciate water tasting of processed Adnams or Red-X impregnated exhaust residue.

It would go through a filteration process anyway to be fit for use.

[MauriceMynah]

There is an old belief that if all the sailing boats ever left the Norfolk Broads, the CEO of the Broads National Park Authority would resign.

[JennyMorgan]

1 minute ago, MauriceMynah said:

There is an old belief that if all the sailing boats ever left the Norfolk Broads, the CEO of the Broads National Park Authority would resign.

If we could count on that!