Woodwork: Oil, Wax Or Nowt?

[floydraser]

29 minutes ago, MauriceMynah said:

I've had an idea (I do have them from time to time) which involves me creating a plywood shelf in the stern saloon. The main purpose for this shelf will be to put ones glass on whilst having one of the rare libations likely to be had onboard Nyx.

Now, this thread has been talking about oils waxes and varnishes. What I need to find out are two things. Firstly which is the easiest one to use, and what is the simplest procedure from start to finish. The required end result is a medium to gloss finish that is durable and resists the rings left when someone is less than careful with their drink! 

Easiest way: get some other idiot to do it for you. Unfortunately, there are no idiots on this forum so you'll have to look elsewhere. 

Plywood: you'll have to finish the edges or get a nice bit with no voids. Depending on the decor, would a plastic faux wood finished shelf be more practical?

I'm not familar with oil finishes in that kind of use but my guess would be either satin finish varnish or gloss, with coasters for protection.

 

[BroadAmbition]

Unfortunately, there are no idiots on this forum so you'll have to look elsewhere.

Really? 

Which forum is that then?

Can't be this one as there are idiots a plenty, some of em attain premier league status whereas I put mysen at championship level

Griff

[MauriceMynah]

I estimate the "shelf" being a piece of ply about 6' 6" by 2'6" or perhaps 6' by 2' at the smallest and I was reckoning on the ply (18mm) being edged with a hardwood trim. It's all part of a larger idea.

I'd prefer not to varnish as normally in those circumstances, If I had to, I'd end up ruining the brush, spoiling the shelf and wasting a whole tin of varnish. I'm hoping oiling is an easier option..

[ZimbiIV]

MM.

If that's about the size you need look at laminate work tops, bathroom ones are about 20mm.

A quick slap of varnish to seal the open edges then sit back and admire your handy work through the bottom of a glass! 

paul 

[marshman]

Remember MM , half the hire boats have "wood" laminate finishes everywhere from shelves to whole bulkheads.

You are in danger of overthinking the issues involved - perhaps you need a fiddle rail around the outside too in case some lunatic comes past, too close and too fast!!!!

[gancanny]

49 minutes ago, MauriceMynah said:

I estimate the "shelf" being a piece of ply about 6' 6" by 2'6" or perhaps 6' by 2' 

 

   that is a large shelf,  a standard internal house door size

[marshman]

Perhaps he is going to sleep on it?????

[MauriceMynah]

.I can't describe what I'm thinking of doing, believe me, I have tried, but the more I think about the plan, the more sense it makes. It makes the aft saloon more spacious, more comfortable, and with more appropriate stowage for the things needed in a saloon area (Booze).

It puts a small double (or generous single) in the cabin just forward of the saloon in place of the two singles.

All in all, a better utilisation of space.... I hope.

All this comes under  the heading of things I might do, to be confirmed or abandoned when I actually see the project.

[floydraser]

Ok, here's another not so random question: Has anyone heard of spraying water onto a polyurethane finish to help it harden off?

Not to be confused with water activated polyurethane glue or water based polyurethane; literally spraying water onto it or leaving it outside in the rain.

[MauriceMynah]

No I haven't! Interesting though..

[floydraser]

1 hour ago, floydraser said:

Ok, here's another not so random question: Has anyone heard of spraying water onto a polyurethane finish to help it harden off?

Not to be confused with water activated polyurethane glue or water based polyurethane; literally spraying water onto it or leaving it outside in the rain.

A few years ago my late Father in law told me to do this after the paint had dried for a couple of days indoors. He did talk cobblers at times and I have always thought this was just such an occasion. He was a panel beater/ paint sprayer mainly during the 50's and 60's and his brother was a coach painter during the same period.

As this thread indicates, I have just finished varnishing the table and I can almost hear him saying, "It's time to spray it with water to harden it off". Then I started thinking about the water activated polyurethane glue and wondered if there was actually some truth in it???

Can't find anything on google.

[Timbo]

Spraying water onto a urethane finish won't make it cure faster, but it will crystalize the surface of the finish to give you a 'false cure'. The standard test for the cure to be complete is for the smell of the urethane to have gone. The crystalized surface will make the smell of the urethane seem to disappear as it is locked underneath but the cure has now been retarded and will take much much longer and in some cases never finishes depending on the thickness of the finish applied.

Water is the thinner for urethane and if you spray water on the surface before it has cured you will also lose whatever sheen you were trying to achieve as the layers of finish blend and melt into each other. It's also why we don't use urethane on cabin sides as it doesn't play well with water.

There is also a technique known as the 'finish finish'. Once the urethane has fully cured, thirty days or so, the surface is sprayed with water as a lubricant and then sanded using grits of 800 and above and finally buffed to give a mirror polish. 

 This is something I picked up from an ex girlfriend who was a conservator and writing her masters dissertation on the subject.

[floydraser]

2 hours ago, Timbo said:

Spraying water onto a urethane finish won't make it cure faster, but it will crystalize the surface of the finish to give you a 'false cure'. The standard test for the cure to be complete is for the smell of the urethane to have gone. The crystalized surface will make the smell of the urethane seem to disappear as it is locked underneath but the cure has now been retarded and will take much much longer and in some cases never finishes depending on the thickness of the finish applied.

Water is the thinner for urethane and if you spray water on the surface before it has cured you will also lose whatever sheen you were trying to achieve as the layers of finish blend and melt into each other. It's also why we don't use urethane on cabin sides as it doesn't play well with water.

There is also a technique known as the 'finish finish'. Once the urethane has fully cured, thirty days or so, the surface is sprayed with water as a lubricant and then sanded using grits of 800 and above and finally buffed to give a mirror polish. 

 This is something I picked up from an ex girlfriend who was a conservator and writing her masters dissertation on the subject.

Thank you Timbo, I was beginning to think I had dreamt it.

It fits perfectly with the notion that being a "false cure" it would speed up the time taken to get the vehicle back on the road and the money in! 

[annv]

Hi Floyed I think you will find that he was talking about cellulose car finish Belco brought out a 300 line that gave a shinier finish, easier to apply mult coats if you laid any thing on it in the first month or more it would mark, we had a customer that had his car resprayed took it home and went on holiday before he left he covered it in a dust sheet in the garage, when he returned he had a car with dust sheet marks all over it, after this all customers were given a note to not cover until it had hardened. John

[floydraser]

29 minutes ago, annv said:

Hi Floyed I think you will find that he was talking about cellulose car finish Belco brought out a 300 line that gave a shinier finish, easier to apply mult coats if you laid any thing on it in the first month or more it would mark, we had a customer that had his car resprayed took it home and went on holiday before he left he covered it in a dust sheet in the garage, when he returned he had a car with dust sheet marks all over it, after this all customers were given a note to not cover until it had hardened. John

Sorry John, definitely polyurethane. I worked with the above gents in their business for a while, it was a garage/bodyshop with a private hire/light haulage side. When we weren't driving we helped out in the workshop. One thing I learned was that paint wasn't always paint; there was paint, and there was cellulose and didn't the coach painter let you know if you reffered to a pot of cellulose as paint! I learned the clear difference, and that the coach painter could be an a*se.

[annv]

Hi Floyd Thats when there where tradesman with proper 5 years apprentices, not heard of the water treatment for polyurethane before, we did have a coach painter who hand painted Green King trucks they were then finished in several coats of varnish after sign writing. John

[floydraser]

Memory of the coach painter: during one slack period it was decided we should paint the large workshop door royal blue. So anyone with nothing to do, grab a brush and start painting. Along comes the coach painter who goes up a ladder with his two, long bristle brushes and makes a start. Paint everywhere! The rest of us wore royal blue spots until we left him to it! 

[annv]

In the summer us apprentices had to help the cleaner paint the glass roof with a greenery water paint one time we took the ladder away leaving him up there, he was a right moaner,  only trouble was he didn't like it so all in managers office for smacked wrists plus,   no warning letters in them days. John